2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread

[The Bobster]

My Suns’ history does not date that far, you guys could tell me if the team was just a piece away from the title at the time of that coinflip, but if they were on stage one and Kareem was the foundation, even if we talk about transplanting a developed, motivated and commited Kareem to the Suns, not sure if that title arrives before he leaves for LA.

Could you please elaborate what was the state of the roster at that time, but please using present time players’ comparisons, because probaly the names form back then, at the most, just would ring a light bell on me. I’m just from the ‘93 wave of fans hehe

Well, the Suns already had Gail Goodrich (future Hall of Famer) at PG and Dick Van Arsdale at SG/SF (think a better scoring Dan Majerle) at SG/SF and added Paul Silas (a great defender and rebounder who could score a little) and if they had added Abdul-Jabbar (think Rudy Gobert if he was the best scorer in the league) they would have had four All-Stars caliber players to build around.

Milwaukee, who DID add Abdul-Jabbar, didn't have as good a supporting cast Abdul-Jabbar's first year (zlthough Jon McGlocklin, Flynn Robinson and Bob Dandridge were pretty good) but went and added Oscar Robertson (at that point Robertson and Jerry West were considered the best guards in the league) and won a championship. If Colangelo had been able to lure Robertson to Phoenix to play along Abdul-Jabbar without giving up any key players (like Milwaukee did) it would have had a line up of Abdul-Jabbar/Silas/Van Arsdale/Goodrich/Robertson. Robertson had difficulty playing for Bob Cousy, who wanted the Royals to run, but Robertson was more of a bigger, more physical and better version of Chris Paul - he controlled the game and he was at his best with the ball in his hands and in a halfcourt game.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

My Suns’ history does not date that far, you guys could tell me if the team was just a piece away from the title at the time of that coinflip, but if they were on stage one and Kareem was the foundation, even if we talk about transplanting a developed, motivated and commited Kareem to the Suns, not sure if that title arrives before he leaves for LA.

Could you please elaborate what was the state of the roster at that time, but please using present time players’ comparisons, because probaly the names form back then, at the most, just would ring a light bell on me. I’m just from the ‘93 wave of fans hehe

Well, the Suns already had Gail Goodrich (future Hall of Famer) at PG and Dick Van Arsdale at SG/SF (think a better scoring Dan Majerle) at SG/SF and added Paul Silas (a great defender and rebounder who could score a little) and if they had added Abdul-Jabbar (think Rudy Gobert if he was the best scorer in the league) they would have had four All-Stars caliber players to build around.

Milwaukee, who DID add Abdul-Jabbar, didn't have as good a supporting cast Abdul-Jabbar's first year (zlthough Jon McGlocklin, Flynn Robinson and Bob Dandridge were pretty good) but went and added Oscar Robertson (at that point Robertson and Jerry West were considered the best guards in the league) and won a championship. If Colangelo had been able to lure Robertson to Phoenix to play along Abdul-Jabbar without giving up any key players (like Milwaukee did) it would have had a line up of Abdul-Jabbar/Silas/Van Arsdale/Goodrich/Robertson. Robertson had difficulty playing for Bob Cousy, who wanted the Royals to run, but Robertson was more of a bigger, more physical and better version of Chris Paul - he controlled the game and he was at his best with the ball in his hands and in a halfcourt game.

Got it, I wasn’t aware that Silas and Van Arsdale were around at that time. getting Robertson as well is a bit of a reach, but still, I like our chances here. I guess I would have to be there to put it over the Joe scenario (the league didn’t have a way to stop that Suns iteration without referees allowing the opponent mauling them to submission), but definitely the Haliburton case it’s under this one.

Thanks a lot for the history lesson!

[The Bobster]

Robertson had a no-trade clause and had vetoed a trade to Baltimore earlier before agreeing to go to Milwaukee to play alongside Abdul-Jabbar, so I don't think it is too big of a stretch to think Jerry Colangelo would have jumped on the chance to get Oscar if he could have.

Of course the Suns wouldn't have gotten Connie Hawkins (who was awarded to them in a coin flip with Seattle as a "consolation prize"), and they would't have traded Goodrich and picked up Clem Haskins to play PG.

[pickle]

The athletic has an annual player tiers article series.

Spoiler: show/hide

Tier 2A: 7-11

Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Jayson Tatum, Devin Booker, LeBron James

Perhaps the most interesting “Who ya got?” argument to be had in the league is between Jayson Tatum and Devin Booker.

Booker’s development from non-impactful scorer to not just a winning player, but also an engaged and locked in two-way player over the past four-to-five seasons has been nothing short of sensational. It’s the kind of trajectory that gives hope to every team with a developing star wing, whether it’s Anthony Edwards in Minnesota (who has made great strides himself) Jalen Green in Houston (who has a long way to go) or even Scoot Henderson in Portland (who has yet to play a real NBA game).

Heading into last season, we knew Booker was a dynamic and multifaceted offensive player. He’s a top-level shot creator and excellent playmaker, and unlike some high volume scorers, he’s wiling to play off the ball as well as initiating offense himself. Somewhat unusual for a player at Booker’s level of offensive centrality, he has taken massive steps forward defensively. After spending the first six years of his career as a bottom tier defender — he ranked no higher than 414th in Defensive RAPM and the 26th percentile in Defensive EPM over that span — Booker has graded out as roughly average in regular-season defensive impact over the last two years and, to my eyes, raised his defensive output even further in the 2023 postseason.

In the case of Tatum, 90 percent of the time he looks like a Tier 1 player. That 10 percent where he is less than that is a problem, as he goes through bouts of turnover-proneness and poor transition defense. To a large degree, Tatum is representative of the Celtics as a team in that regard, where long stretches of dominance can be undone by moments of seeming madness. Strictly by virtue of his size and frame, Tatum can be, and has been, a more impactful defender than Booker. If that was paired with a little more of Booker’s steadiness and willingness to make quick decisions with the ball more often, I don’t think this would be a discussion, as Tatum would be in the next group up.

If I had to pick one of the two with the explicit goal of winning a championship, I would go with Tatum mostly because of the heightened possibility of an extra gear. But if Booker ultimately enjoys more success because he is less prone to Tatum’s streakiness, I would not be the least bit surprised.

Durant is 1B. Beal is 3C, along with Mikal and Haliburton (and others), and Deandre is in 4C, listed under “numbers over impact” category.

[Superbone]

Robertson had a no-trade clause and had vetoed a trade to Baltimore earlier before agreeing to go to Milwaukee to play alongside Abdul-Jabbar, so I don't think it is too big of a stretch to think Jerry Colangelo would have jumped on the chance to get Oscar if he could have.

Of course the Suns wouldn't have gotten Connie Hawkins (who was awarded to them in a coin flip with Seattle as a "consolation prize"), and they would't have traded Goodrich and picked up Clem Haskins to play PG.

Didn't the Suns give the vaunted Lakers a scare around this time, going up 3-1 in a series? Jabbar would have put us over the top.

It was the 1970 playoffs. Found the story here:

https://www.nba.com/suns/features/1970- ... les-lakers

[The Bobster]

That was the year Wilt hurt his knee, missed most of the years and came back for the final 3 regular season games and the playoffs. The Suns had four really good starters in Goodrich, Van Arsdale, Silas and Hawkins, but the Lakers had Wilt, West and Baylor, with Baylor being the only one showing any signs of decline (1969-70 was his last great year). Wilt ended up averaging 23/20/5 that series (with who knows how many blocks), and West averaged 30/2/9. In the final game of the series Wilt had 30 points and 27 rebounds and the Lakers hammered the Suns 129-94 at the Forum. Hawkins was great for the Suns though, averaging 25/14/6, but even though he was only 27 he had peaked and his numbers started a slow decline in 1970-71 (there are theories that all the travel with the Globetrotters hadn't done his body any favors.

[bajanguy008]

Don't know who this dude is and I not bored enough to check some of his other opinions but my my
This is a gem smh lol

[Mori Chu]

It took the national hoops media a while to catch up on Book. But they're here now. Seems like a lot of the magazines rate us as having the league's #1 SG (Book) and #1 SF (Durant) in their previews. That's pretty amazing.

[bajanguy008]

There is a rule related to this sorta thing tbh
Regardless of family, you could play for another country if only previously playing International as a Junior
Or I might be mixing up "Fifa" (soccer)

Either way.....

[In2ition]

I thought it wasn't allowed either, but I'm not broken up over Gordon playing for the Bahamas and I don't care about Argentina's greivance either. Just sounds like a sore loser.

[Split T]

There is a rule related to this sorta thing tbh
Regardless of family, you could play for another country if only previously playing International as a Junior
Or I might be mixing up "Fifa" (soccer)

Either way.....

You can switch if you only played with a country before the age of 17…in Gordon’s case he had to get an exception. I saw this on Wikipedia:

FIBA has an exception that allows the Secretary General to authorize a nationality change to a player's "country of origin" (i.e., a country where the player has recent ancestral roots) if it is "in the interest of the development of basketball in the country".[1]

[In2ition]

I would say that this rule applies to this case. The Bahamas has never been known as a hotbed of hoops, this would be growing the sport there, imo.

[Split T]

I agree. And it makes sense to me. Let’s spread the talent out and make international competitions more interesting.

I feel the opposite about the US taking guys like Ayton or Embiid. Bigger nations(more importantly the top basketball nations) should not be allowed to poach.

[Superbone]

Yep, sour grapes on the part of Nocioni. You lost, dude. Don't make excuses.

[JeremyG]

Who'll 'take a backseat' for Phoenix Suns' Big 3 of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal?
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 646418007/

It's interesting to compare our roster with the Heat, especially in 2012-13. Their opening night lineup was Chalmers/Wade/James/Battier/Bosh, with Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, and Norris Cole coming off the bench.

What if we have...
Allen = Gordon (6th man)
Ayton = Bosh
Durant = James
Booker = Wade
Bates-Diop = Battier

But then we have Bradley Beal. Instead of Mario Chalmers.

Along with arguably better depth off the bench (Watanabe, Okogie, Eubanks, Goodwin, etc.).

Durant may not be at his peak, but neither was Wade.

(Fun fact: Bosh that season averaged 16.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg [7.4 rpg overall during his 4 years with LeBron], and .284 3P% on 1.0 3PA per game, and was selected as an All-Star.)

[In2ition]

The front seat is going to be for 3 people. Who sits in the middle?

[Superbone]

The front seat is going to be for 3 people. Who sits in the middle?

Usually, the new guy.

[Kryptonic]

The front seat is going to be for 3 people. Who sits in the middle?

Usually, the new guy.

Yea... should be Beal. Ayton will be in the trunk.

[MightyMoog]

Argentina is a huge country compared to a tiny island that is the Bahamas, but everyone is busy playing soccer. That’s fine, you don’t get to win at everything. I have no problem with players going to smaller developing countries and apparently neither did Fiba.

[In2ition]

Argentina has also won a gold medal in the Olympics. Has the Bahamas ever even gone to the Olympics in basketball?