All Things Ayton
- virtual9mm
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Re: All Things Ayton
If the Suns trade Ayton, it had better make the team better.
Re: All Things Ayton
I think it’s possible there is a disconnect on what makes the team better on paper and what makes the team better in actuality. If there is any lingering issues between Ayton and the team, making what appears to be a downgrade on paper may actually improve the team on the court.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
Re: All Things Ayton
It seems like most of these rumors are being put out by Portland or Miami to try to influence public opinion as they negotiate their Lillard trade parameters. I don't think we should have any part in it. I haven't heard a realistic version of this trade that makes us better. We have a real chance to win a title next year and we shouldn't eff around with it. And I don't think "depth" trades really help us. Ayton for a worse center and 1-2 other pieces? When are we going to find minutes for those pieces? We already have 10-12 guys who will deserve minutes. I'd stay away from these trades.
Re: All Things Ayton
I’m sure if he’s still here this season and struggles it will be bookers fault, or the lemonade guy.Split T wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:31 amI think it’s possible there is a disconnect on what makes the team better on paper and what makes the team better in actuality. If there is any lingering issues between Ayton and the team, making what appears to be a downgrade on paper may actually improve the team on the court.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
Re: All Things Ayton
I agree we have some decent depth, but that depth is more 6-10 on the depth chart. If we could trade Ayton for a 4th and 5th starter I think that’s a win.Mori Chu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:42 amIt seems like most of these rumors are being put out by Portland or Miami to try to influence public opinion as they negotiate their Lillard trade parameters. I don't think we should have any part in it. I haven't heard a realistic version of this trade that makes us better. We have a real chance to win a title next year and we shouldn't eff around with it. And I don't think "depth" trades really help us. Ayton for a worse center and 1-2 other pieces? When are we going to find minutes for those pieces? We already have 10-12 guys who will deserve minutes. I'd stay away from these trades.
Let’s just assume Nurkic and Martin
Beal/Book/Martin/KD/Nurkic
Goodwin/Gordon/Yuta/KBD/Eubanks
Okogie/Lee/Camara/Bol/Metu
Re: All Things Ayton
I was with you until the last sentence. I'm not going to assume that based on rumors. I guess maybe Gambo's selling of it led you that way?Split T wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:31 amI think it’s possible there is a disconnect on what makes the team better on paper and what makes the team better in actuality. If there is any lingering issues between Ayton and the team, making what appears to be a downgrade on paper may actually improve the team on the court.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: All Things Ayton
For me it’s just the repeated rumors. It seems we’ve tried to move him multiple times over the last couple years.
And the fact Gambo says we’d be interested if Nurkic was available tells me they want to move him. That’s a downgrade
And the fact Gambo says we’d be interested if Nurkic was available tells me they want to move him. That’s a downgrade
Re: All Things Ayton
Usually, it's literally their job to talk about discussions that create content.Cap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:05 pmIt could be imminent and the very next second blow up. If it’s eminent they just take what they need and give you fair value, so there are no negotiations to blow up.In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:56 pmWow, the standards expected here are wild on trying to report stuff they have ZERO control over themselves. You do realize that it could be emminent, and the very next second the whole thing could blow up, right? We all need to relax on thinking they need to be prophets without blemish.Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:07 pma broken clock is even right 2 times a day... I just think he swings and misses way too often.Wally_West wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:03 pmGambo has had a pretty good run with scoops this year. He deserves his flowers.
No, I don’t have anything better to be doing than posting this crap, why?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Re: All Things Ayton
I was talking about myself posting about your spelling error.In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:47 amUsually, it's literally their job to talk about discussions that create content.Cap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:05 pmIt could be imminent and the very next second blow up. If it’s eminent they just take what they need and give you fair value, so there are no negotiations to blow up.In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:56 pmWow, the standards expected here are wild on trying to report stuff they have ZERO control over themselves. You do realize that it could be emminent, and the very next second the whole thing could blow up, right? We all need to relax on thinking they need to be prophets without blemish.Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:07 pma broken clock is even right 2 times a day... I just think he swings and misses way too often.Wally_West wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:03 pmGambo has had a pretty good run with scoops this year. He deserves his flowers.
No, I don’t have anything better to be doing than posting this crap, why?
Re: All Things Ayton
I don't like these new rumors. I had gotten myself excited about a possible turning point for Ayton back to his trajectory up to the 2021 playoffs. In Jones and Vogel's faith in Ayton. In Vogel's past success with big men. In Ayton's promising attitude in the FIBA games. I was ready to go into training camp, exhibition, and start the season with the current team. Now it feels like it is in flux. Can only worry about what I can control and just enjoy the ride. Here's to hoping the best decisions for the Suns upcoming season are the result.
Glad to have you all to talk it through with in the meantime. We're getting close. Hopefully going to be a season for the ages.
Glad to have you all to talk it through with in the meantime. We're getting close. Hopefully going to be a season for the ages.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: All Things Ayton
I don’t like them either, except the OG/Nurk version.
Beal-Book-OG-KD-Nurk with Vogel coaching and a decent bench? Should be a defensive powerhouse.
And then instead of that annoying argument about whether KDB, Yuta or JO should start, we can argue about which of them should be second off the bench, which is a much more pleasant argument to have.
Beal-Book-OG-KD-Nurk with Vogel coaching and a decent bench? Should be a defensive powerhouse.
And then instead of that annoying argument about whether KDB, Yuta or JO should start, we can argue about which of them should be second off the bench, which is a much more pleasant argument to have.
Re: All Things Ayton
OG would be a dream scenario…though he doesn’t present a new dilemma next summer when we’d have to pay him.
Re: All Things Ayton
Is that a dilemma? Is another team going to outbid Ishbia? We’d have full Bird rights, so it’s just a matter of willingness, and keeping the player happy so he won’t leave for less money.
Re: All Things Ayton
Oh, I didn't realize I had a spelling error, but not surprised. I was never a spelling bee champ, haha. Thanks for letting me know.Cap wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:49 amI was talking about myself posting about your spelling error.In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:47 amUsually, it's literally their job to talk about discussions that create content.Cap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:05 pmIt could be imminent and the very next second blow up. If it’s eminent they just take what they need and give you fair value, so there are no negotiations to blow up.In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:56 pmWow, the standards expected here are wild on trying to report stuff they have ZERO control over themselves. You do realize that it could be emminent, and the very next second the whole thing could blow up, right? We all need to relax on thinking they need to be prophets without blemish.
No, I don’t have anything better to be doing than posting this crap, why?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Re: All Things Ayton
I don’t know. Ishbia has shown a willingness to spend, but how far would he go. Assuming Nurkic is coming with OG, we’d have 170 million locked up in 4 guys. OG will want a 30 million dollar contract. That pushes us to 200 million on 5 guys and has us probably pushing 225 million in total salary. That would be 45 million over the luxury tax. Not sure what the total bill would be, but GS is on track to pay 188 million for being 41 million over this year.
Re: All Things Ayton
This is now the longest thread in this forum, beating out the 153 pages for last year’s offseason thread (Kevin Durant).
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Re: All Things Ayton
Haha thanks, but I think it was moreso the Hayters who kept it going than me!
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Re: All Things Ayton
I'd say you have a symbiotic relationship.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: All Things Ayton
Has Gambo ever been this wishy-washy before? What’s gotten into him lately? Lol.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.