Countdown Thread - 65 Days Until Preseason Opens

[BKinSJC]

I just have to correct one historical fact: we traded away the Mikal pick for Brandon Knight, who eventually turned into (at most) Landry Shamet. It was the Goran Dragic trade that allowed us to get the Mikal pick back.

Wasn't 100% sure about that, so I checked online - tail end of this article said that one of the Lakers picks became Mikal, but I think it was oversimplifying. You're right that there was other intervening stuff.

[Split T]

It was the laker pick that we used to pick Mikal, but we traded it away and then re-acquired it…well technically we traded for Mikal after he was picked.

[AmareIsGod]

He's already the greatest Suns player. He's been here since he came into the league and holds so many records, has been to the Finals as a Sun. Everything going forward is a cherry on top. It's not even debatable at this point. Booker is the best Phoenix Suns player ever.

This is basketball; everything's debatable.

Just to make the case, quickly, for the guy who I think is still (barely) the leader in the clubhouse overall, that being Steve Nash:

Over an eight-year span starting with the 2004-05 season, with Nash as the acknowledged leader of the team and the only real constant, the Suns went 405-235 in the regular season, including 62-win and 61-win seasons. They made the playoffs five times, missing in '09 despite having a 46-36 record, and twice more with near-.500 records as Nash aged and the franchise started to sink down the Sarver-hole. They advanced to the Western Conference Finals three times (losing to the eventual champs twice), the Conference Semis once (losing to the eventual champs, and the only team to push them to more than five games in a series), and losing out in the first round once. Nash never missed a playoff game during this stretch and consistently overperformed his regular season numbers, but due at least partially to a litany of bad luck and injuries to teammates that we're all way too familiar with, the Suns never quite got over to top to make it to the finals. Still, it could be argued that his overall playoff resume with the Suns is at least equal to Book's.

During that time Nash was MVP of the league twice, first-team All-NBA three times, and second-team All-NBA twice. He led the league in total assists and assists per game five times, and shot 50/40/90 four times, barely missing it with an .899 free throw average one other season. Until Chris Paul came along and started to establish himself, Nash was the consensus best point guard in the league.

As far as Suns records, Nash is the franchise leader in total assists (fourth in assists per game, which really speaks to how many brilliant point guards have spent at least some time here), is second in 3-point shooting percentage, first in total offensive win shares. Third in total games played (Booker's not quite in the top 10 yet), sixth in minutes played (Booker's eighth and closing fast). Second to Booker in both 3-pointers made and attempted, although Book has only about 40 more makes on 600+ more attempts. It's hard to overstate just how efficient he was as a scorer, though certainly not ever a volume shooter.

Finally, I'd point out that, purely as an asset, Nash is probably one of the most valuable Phoenix Suns ever. He was a mid-first pick, 15th overall, who found himself playing behind Jason Kidd and KJ; despite the limited opportunities, he was able to develop enough to draw a first-rounder in trade from Dallas; the Suns used it to take Shawn Marion ninth overall the next year. Nash then continued to improve in Dallas, returned to the Suns as a free agent (costing nothing but the money and cap space required to sign him), and had eight mostly-stellar seasons. Then, when the tanking was going to set in hardcore, he helped arrange for a sign-and-trade to the Lakers; among the picks that came back was part of the package that led to Mikal Bridges, who in turn was the lynchpin to get Kevin Durant to the valley.

As far as Book goes, I'm glad to listen to anybody's case for him as already being the greatest Suns player ever. It's amazing that he progressed so much through the dysfunction of his first few years, and I think he's surpassed guys like Walter Davis and Tom Chambers as the most effective every-level scorer we've ever seen. He's an improving playmaker, he's starting to care about defense, he's performed really well in the playoffs overall, he's shown leadership, and he might have the respect of great players around the league moreso than anyone who's suited up for the franchise since Charles Barkley (who, by the way, might be #3 in this discussion, but to me three great years and one mediocre one just isn't long enough with the team to put him on the same level). Maybe the most exciting thing about Booker, though, is simply that he's got so much more potential in the future. He's just hitting his prime right now, he's got the full backing of the organization and his teammates, and the opportunity to make it obvious that he's the greatest Sun ever is right in front of him. I think he'll do it.

You have swayed my vote. I conveniently left out Nash in my thought process. He was elite and part of the transition into a lot of today's NBA offense.

[Kryptonic]

He's already the greatest Suns player. He's been here since he came into the league and holds so many records, has been to the Finals as a Sun. Everything going forward is a cherry on top. It's not even debatable at this point. Booker is the best Phoenix Suns player ever.

This is basketball; everything's debatable.

Just to make the case, quickly, for the guy who I think is still (barely) the leader in the clubhouse overall, that being Steve Nash:

Over an eight-year span starting with the 2004-05 season, with Nash as the acknowledged leader of the team and the only real constant, the Suns went 405-235 in the regular season, including 62-win and 61-win seasons. They made the playoffs five times, missing in '09 despite having a 46-36 record, and twice more with near-.500 records as Nash aged and the franchise started to sink down the Sarver-hole. They advanced to the Western Conference Finals three times (losing to the eventual champs twice), the Conference Semis once (losing to the eventual champs, and the only team to push them to more than five games in a series), and losing out in the first round once. Nash never missed a playoff game during this stretch and consistently overperformed his regular season numbers, but due at least partially to a litany of bad luck and injuries to teammates that we're all way too familiar with, the Suns never quite got over to top to make it to the finals. Still, it could be argued that his overall playoff resume with the Suns is at least equal to Book's.

During that time Nash was MVP of the league twice, first-team All-NBA three times, and second-team All-NBA twice. He led the league in total assists and assists per game five times, and shot 50/40/90 four times, barely missing it with an .899 free throw average one other season. Until Chris Paul came along and started to establish himself, Nash was the consensus best point guard in the league.

As far as Suns records, Nash is the franchise leader in total assists (fourth in assists per game, which really speaks to how many brilliant point guards have spent at least some time here), is second in 3-point shooting percentage, first in total offensive win shares. Third in total games played (Booker's not quite in the top 10 yet), sixth in minutes played (Booker's eighth and closing fast). Second to Booker in both 3-pointers made and attempted, although Book has only about 40 more makes on 600+ more attempts. It's hard to overstate just how efficient he was as a scorer, though certainly not ever a volume shooter.

Finally, I'd point out that, purely as an asset, Nash is probably one of the most valuable Phoenix Suns ever. He was a mid-first pick, 15th overall, who found himself playing behind Jason Kidd and KJ; despite the limited opportunities, he was able to develop enough to draw a first-rounder in trade from Dallas; the Suns used it to take Shawn Marion ninth overall the next year. Nash then continued to improve in Dallas, returned to the Suns as a free agent (costing nothing but the money and cap space required to sign him), and had eight mostly-stellar seasons. Then, when the tanking was going to set in hardcore, he helped arrange for a sign-and-trade to the Lakers; among the picks that came back was part of the package that led to Mikal Bridges, who in turn was the lynchpin to get Kevin Durant to the valley.

As far as Book goes, I'm glad to listen to anybody's case for him as already being the greatest Suns player ever. It's amazing that he progressed so much through the dysfunction of his first few years, and I think he's surpassed guys like Walter Davis and Tom Chambers as the most effective every-level scorer we've ever seen. He's an improving playmaker, he's starting to care about defense, he's performed really well in the playoffs overall, he's shown leadership, and he might have the respect of great players around the league moreso than anyone who's suited up for the franchise since Charles Barkley (who, by the way, might be #3 in this discussion, but to me three great years and one mediocre one just isn't long enough with the team to put him on the same level). Maybe the most exciting thing about Booker, though, is simply that he's got so much more potential in the future. He's just hitting his prime right now, he's got the full backing of the organization and his teammates, and the opportunity to make it obvious that he's the greatest Sun ever is right in front of him. I think he'll do it.

“Quickly” my ass… . Jk

Nicely put! The thing we forget about Nash is how much he elevated everyone on the court with him. Regardless of who’s the best, they’re both a real treat to watch. Imagine if they played together? *runs to load up 2k*

[Mori Chu]

Great post, BK. I think Steve Nash is still the greatest Sun ever. If Booker leads us to a title, he will probably claim that title, but for me personally, Nash is my favorite Sun of all time by a wide margin. Even if Book led us to a title I think I would still like Nash better just as a personal preference. I loved Nash so much, loved the way he played, loved the way he completely transformed our team and molded it in his own image. And he changed the entire league in the process. If Book continues playing and winning the way he's already done, he will probably win me over and surpass Nash at some point. But it's a tall order.

[Cap]

Nash was one of a kind, or at least first of a kind. Book is great, but he’s great in ways that other players are or have been great. Am I making sense?

[Kryptonic]

Nash was one of a kind, or at least first of a kind. Book is great, but he’s great in ways that other players are or have been great. Am I making sense?

Yea.... He's an amazing player with some decent accomplishments but nothing compared to what Nash did. Not trying to downplay what he has done because I think he's hard time getting recognized with so many other players in his position that have been on better teams and done more.

Something I think Booker can do to increase his dominance would be to increase his playmaking/defensive (STOCKS) stats and he could really elevate his name in the discussion. We all know he can score, but it's those areas that will help set him apart.

[Wally_West]

Let’s goooo

[Superbone]

He went.

[TOO]

He went.

And the he came back.

[Cap]

He went.

And the he came back.

And then he went again.

Keep this up and we’re going to end up with a baby.