Goran Dragic Trade Watch

[INFORMER]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

Oh come on.

[INFORMER]

I'm not saying Knight can't be good to the Suns, but before the deadline if you had posted a proposal trading the LAL pick alone for him, even knowing no IT3-Dragic, you would have been banned form your own forum.

This. Fans love to talk themselves into thinking their team made a good move once it has actually happened.

[OE32]

I'm not saying Knight can't be good to the Suns, but before the deadline if you had posted a proposal trading the LAL pick alone for him, even knowing no IT3-Dragic, you would have been banned form your own forum.

This. Fans love to talk themselves into thinking their team made a good move once it has actually happened.

True phenomenon. But we would've been in trouble had we not made this deal. Bled and the Morrii would've been stranded. We could've gone full hinkie by trading them for draft considerations, and built exclusively around our young pieces.

[JCSunsfan]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

As far as Bledsoe's turnovers are concerned - every time he has a bad turnover game, he follows it up with a very low turnover game. This tells me he listens to coaches. He's still improving.

Bledsoe gets a lot of rebounds and blocks for a guard. Typically a good defender. Tremendous finisher. I like that he doesn't need to score to have an impact on the game - it opens things up for other scorers on the team.

I would be content if our guards would include he big men in the offense every once-in-a-while.

[INFORMER]

Bled and the Morrii would've been stranded. We could've gone full hinkie by trading them for draft considerations, and built exclusively around our young pieces.

That should be the plan, but no need to go to a Hinkie-level extreme. I doubt Ryan will ever part with Bledsoe, but the Morris Twins and Tucker should be sent packing in the offseason.

[OE32]

Bled and the Morrii would've been stranded. We could've gone full hinkie by trading them for draft considerations, and built exclusively around our young pieces.

That should be the plan, but no need to go to a Hinkie-level extreme. I doubt Ryan will ever part with Bledsoe, but the Morris Twins and Tucker should be sent packing in the offseason.

Fair enough. I would've been fine with either alternative. What I would NOT have been happy with would be the middle ground of keeping Dragic, who simply didn't fit.

[OE32]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

As far as Bledsoe's turnovers are concerned - every time he has a bad turnover game, he follows it up with a very low turnover game. This tells me he listens to coaches. He's still improving.

Bledsoe gets a lot of rebounds and blocks for a guard. Typically a good defender. Tremendous finisher. I like that he doesn't need to score to have an impact on the game - it opens things up for other scorers on the team.

I would be content if our guards would include he big men in the offense every once-in-a-while.

Getting rid of Dragic should help. He was the worst offender, IMO. I hope Alex gets some post ups now that we're not desperate to make the playoffs.

[AmareIsGod]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

Oh come on.

I guess only you can make observations. The rest of us are Homers with no merit or sound logic behind our observations.

Coming from the guy who quotes FOE every second, is fascinated with Rich Paul and can't stop reusing McDonough nicknames that he heard a single time as if this board is riding his jock and truly thinks he's a miracle at this point.

Your sarcastic barbs at the rest of us that have any positive views towards the team and any of the players is extremely grating. I think we understood loud and clear months ago your exact stance on our roster and our GM. It's no longer funny or cute and I really wish you could bring a fresh new take to the fold.

[AmareIsGod]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

As far as Bledsoe's turnovers are concerned - every time he has a bad turnover game, he follows it up with a very low turnover game. This tells me he listens to coaches. He's still improving.

Bledsoe gets a lot of rebounds and blocks for a guard. Typically a good defender. Tremendous finisher. I like that he doesn't need to score to have an impact on the game - it opens things up for other scorers on the team.

I would be content if our guards would include he big men in the offense every once-in-a-while.

Getting rid of Dragic should help. He was the worst offender, IMO. I hope Alex gets some post ups now that we're not desperate to make the playoffs.

Ding. He and Thomas always ignored Alex in the post.

[OE32]

I like INF. Even when I disagree, he's not unreasonable. And he knows a ton about players around the league and in college. When you know a lot, you're entitled to strong opinions. You just can't take it personal.

[INFORMER]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

Oh come on.

I guess only you can make observations.

I guess I can't react to someone's observation.

[AmareIsGod]

I like INF. Even when I disagree, he's not unreasonable. And he knows a ton about players around the league and in college. When you know a lot, you're entitled to strong opinions. You just can't take it personal.

The problem is when you really think you know a lot, so much so that it's superior to others. I've known his stance for too long and yet I have to continually hear his wish that Bledsoe was gone and that McDonough isn't a good GM. If he knows a lot and is so intelligent, why can't he offer a new take on things? And what would it take, Informer, for you to ever be satisfied with Bledsoe's contract and his spot on our roster? Less turnovers, better FG%, a move to SG, a new agent? Is there no recourse with Eric and he must be moved no matter what?

[AmareIsGod]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

Oh come on.

I guess only you can make observations.

I guess I can't react to someone's observation.

You can but you're terrible at ever giving a reason. You give a single word response berating an "observation" or opinion. If you could enlighten a little bit as to your own opinion or observation, I'm sure it would go a long way. Your response ends up feeling like a stab at someone else for having inferior observations instead of a reasonable counter response with merit.

[In2ition]

I don't always agree with INF, (and this is no disrespect to everyone else on the board)but he is my favorite poster here, even though I enjoy almost everyone's takes on phx-suns.net. This is probably because I am probably most aligned to his point of view and opinions based on my own experiences, talent evaluations, and armchair GM thoughts.

Bledsoe isn't my favorite Sun, and I wouldn't be hurt if the Suns found a great deal in their favor and traded him. As a Suns fan first, I hope that he is a tremendous Sun and help in some way to make a championship come soon to the Valley.

[AmareIsGod]

I'm not saying what I'm saying as a complete slam on Informer. He's one of my 5 favorite posters on here. I just wish he'd lay off the McDonough nicknames and ridiculous FOE avatars (or Rich Paul). As one of the most credible posters on this board with, arguably, the most knowledge and views that I align with, it diminishes who he really is. A quality poster that is one of the bigger reasons I've loved .net over the years.

Then again, my Cheerios were heavily saturated in urine this morning and this surprise insanity from Dragic has put me in a bit of a funk.

Let us proceed...

[azsportsfan]

Bledsoe's demeanor seemed improved in the azcentral video after Goran announced his trade demand - relaxed, confident, open. Good to see.

As far as Bledsoe's turnovers are concerned - every time he has a bad turnover game, he follows it up with a very low turnover game. This tells me he listens to coaches. He's still improving.

Bledsoe gets a lot of rebounds and blocks for a guard. Typically a good defender. Tremendous finisher. I like that he doesn't need to score to have an impact on the game - it opens things up for other scorers on the team.

I have to shake my head "no" on this. He is not a tremendous finisher to my eye. He takes every short shot looking for contact, or trying to make contact, instead of just playing basketball. I am amazed at how often he misses within 5 feet of the rim. Anyone have stats on that?

[In2ition]

I agree with your take AIG. I guess I am immune to it, and just gloss over that part.

[INFORMER]

Your sarcastic barbs at the rest of us that have any positive views towards the team and any of the players is extremely grating. I think we understood loud and clear months ago your exact stance on our roster and our GM. It's no longer funny or cute and I really wish you could bring a fresh new take to the fold.

Ok.

Really? He got what he wanted. But yeah, it was unprofessional. Unfortunately, if he had remained professional, the Suns probably wouldn't have agreed to trade him.

BUT, I do like Knight, and I am looking forward to seeing him play as a Sun. Again, if I had my way, he'd have been a Sun from the start of training camp.

Also, don't be surprised if Thornton proves to be an effective reserve.

We got screwed in the three trades we made today.

I'll say this: Mr. McDonough deserves credit for refusing to take Josh McRoberts and Chris Anderson. That would have been awful. Good job working the deal to minimize the salary obligations to the Suns received in return.

How long before Knight wants to be the main PG again?

I don't think that will happen. Knight isn't a pure point guard. He very much is a combo guard, and I think he's better suited to play with Bledsoe than Goran was.

Do you remember how awful one Goran Dragic looked as a 20 year old? Probably not, because he was two years from even playing in the NBA, when as a rookie he couldn't dribble or shoot and was being called the worst player in the league.

Give Archie time.

It's not just about age. It's about experience and talent. A 20 year old playing in the Slovenian league shouldn't be at the same level as a 20 year old that has been given NBA coaching and training. Birth certificates aren't as important as experience and talent.

How long before Knight wants to be the main PG again?

I don't think that will happen. Knight isn't a pure point guard. He very much is a combo guard, and I think he's better suited to play with Bledsoe than Goran was.

I like sending him to Sacramento and getting back a package that includes Nik Stauskas.

I like sending him to Houston and getting a package that includes Nick Johnson, Clint Capela, and the New Orleans pick.

I would also do this:

Phoenix receives: Roy Hibbert, Lavoy Allen, Chris Copeland, and a 1st round pick
Indiana receives: Goran Dragic, Zoran Dragic, Miles Plumlee, and PJ Tucker

he has no right to held the team hostage over a trade demand. He is no Dwight Howard, nor Kevin Love, to deliver a "desired teams" list to the front office. He has leverage, yeah, but he is burning bridges with my fandom of him, the way he has handled this issue.

It's not holding the team hostage. Should he have lied about his intentions this offseason? And what benefit to the Suns would it be to not trade him?

As for the list of teams, that's necessary information. Whatever team that looks at trading for Dragic is going to want to know if he's interested in staying long-term.

We don't owe any one player the keys to the franchise.

He's not asking for the keys of the franchise; he's asking to play point guard. Big difference.

They thought they saw an opportunity to sign a value deal with IT and have some Bledsoe insurance, they took it. It didn't work out. So give the FO an opportunity to rectify it. This franchise drafted Goran, developed him, brought him back as a free agent (shipped him off unceremoniously, too, but I have a point to make) and wants to commit to him. So give the FO an opportunity to fix the logjam.

You say all of that like it's only about Thomas. It's not. And rather than start demanding certain players dealt, Dragic is willing to say, "You made your choice; now I'm going to make mine."

As an aside, is $20 million a season about right for Goran or overpaying?

Overpay, by a lot. Harden doesn't even make $20M. LeBron just now started making $20M for the first time in his career. But I'm of the opinion you only pay guys that are top 5 in the league that kind of money. Then all-stars in the 13 to 17 range. Borderline all-stars in the 10 to 13 range. Solid roleplayers in the 7 to 10 range. Then your average MLE types. I don't think any GM sees it like I do though.

I find it weird that with just about every other contract I hear it justified in terms of what the new CBA will allow/dictate. But with the early projections of Dragic offers, they're being evaluated in the context of the current CBA.

and some here are overvaluing dragic's bird rights. the other teams dont need it.

On the contrary, having Dragic as their own free agent gives them more flexibility to spend on other free agents.

Yes, but Phoenix can only receive back the value of the Twins pre-extension salaries. So Denver would meet the salary requirement, but Phoenix would not.

IT and Bled can work, but IT and Goran is a disaster.

Disaster isn't accurate at all. And actually they've been better lately; Thomas has become a better catch and shoot threat as the season has progressed. I would never start the pair together though. But yes, my preference would be to move Thomas as well.

It was pretty widely regarded as a top-5 backcourt coming in to the season.

Because it produces stats. The question is, how far is it going to take you?

Just depends on the rest of the roster, no?

Yes and no. I thought Kevin Love was the one player (that was available) you could add to that duo that would really optimize it.

And of course you can talk about other stars and superstars you can add to the duo to make a contender. But if you're adding that kind of talent to that duo, then it stops being about that duo, doesn't it? And if you're committing approximately $30 million or more to that duo, is that really money well spent?

Detroit's Bad Boys did pretty well for themselves relying on their three guards.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making any summary judgments about trying to win with two point guards. Philosophically I'm not opposed or in favor of that strategy; I'm willing to consider any strategy within reason.

I just think these two particular point guards in particular aren't going to form a duo that carries a team to a championship.

[carey]

You can but you're terrible at ever giving a reason. You give a single word response berating an "observation" or opinion. If you could enlighten a little bit as to your own opinion or observation, I'm sure it would go a long way. Your response ends up feeling like a stab at someone else for having inferior observations instead of a reasonable counter response with merit.

I've only said this about Info a 100 times, but you can't say he's saying the same things over and over & you're sick of it in one post and then beg him to dish out an opinion in the next. Cause as you've said, you already know what it is, don't you?

[Mori Chu]

Yes, INF doesn't like the direction of the team. But he always gives reasons for his takes. Sometimes he posts shorter messages or eyerolls, but he shouldn't feel obligated to restate the same reasons and justifications over and over. If you keep up with the board and posts, you know that behind that eyeroll or short post there was a longer one in which he explained why he feels the way he does. I don't see anything wrong with the way he posts here or the tone he uses in his messages. Some folks seem to think he's condescending, but I think it's more of one of those situations where tone and intent is hard to get across perfectly on the internet. I don't think he has any ill will toward anybody here or looks down on them. But we sometimes read that into people's words when they are being negative or disagreeing with us.