Kyrie Irving Trade Countdown

[sunshoopjunky]

Giving up any 2 of these:

Bender
Chris
1st round pick

without getting a guarantee from ANYONE for more then 2019 would be very near-sided and have a great chance in regret.

If we could include a bad contract out or 1st round picks in I think you look at it. But just for the sake of adding an All Star on a 2 year rental? Questionable at best if not bush league GMing. My guess is that with Ryan extended it may be a lot less likely this happens.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Nowadays, two years is almost long term. As a player, you are bound to get 3 years offers, maybe four. Look at our own hometown brewed Alan Williams, 3 years, but just the first is guaranteed. Is the flip side of the shorter contracts, versus the good old day when you got to live with your Noah's, and your Knight's for full seven years

Teams and fans started referring to players in terms of assets, contracts, etc, It was just a matter of time for players to start acting as mercenaries, fair game everyone, so once you reach certain level, you can call the assets game in your favor, Kyrie is no different than any modern player on this regard, it used to be about money and later titles, but today is about branding, legacy, featuring, and given he already had achieved money and titles, you can't blame the guy for trying to get the rest of it. Two years is a fair commitment, and is up to the team to get a longer lease on him, George, Durant, Butler, already pulled a Lebron on his former teams, Kyrie just was clever enough to get ahead of what it is already coming to Cleveland next year.

Is not bush league GMing, is modern era NBA, no more gentlemen, just business.

[Superbone]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 541226001/

Kyrie Irving trade rumors turned to the Suns again on Friday following a report originating in Minnesota which indicated the Suns were willing to part with Eric Bledsoe, Dragan Bender and a first-round pick in exchange for Irving.

It was previously reported by ESPN that the Suns were one of six teams to have made the Cleveland Cavaliers an offer for Irving’s services.

San Antonio, the Los Angeles Clippers, Minnesota, the New York Knicks and Miami were the other teams reported to have made offers for Irving.

The Spurs, Timberwolves, Knicks and Heat reportedly are the four teams for which Irving wants to play.

[virtual9mm]

Regarding Kyrie, I wonder if we are looking at this backwards. The question is whether a team with Kyrie and Booker as the big guns CAN work. With two scoring guards, it becomes imperative to have a distributing point forward. Hence, Josh Jackson CANNOT be part of a trade package because his utility value on such a team is higher than his trade value.

The same is true for Bender, IMHO. Chriss is a better scorer but Bender the better defender and distributor. Indeed, you will need someone with these attributes to backstop the poor defending guards.

Run the following lineup:

Kyrie
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Frye

And I think it could actually work. Substitute Chriss for Bender and IMHO you will have a mess...

[Ring_Wanted]

Bledsoe and Chriss, take it or leave it. No pick, no Warren. No Bender. Can involve Chandler and taking back salary. Can also give up a couple of second rounders.

[Split T]

Giving up any 2 of these:

Bender
Chris
1st round pick

without getting a guarantee from ANYONE for more then 2019 would be very near-sided and have a great chance in regret.

If we could include a bad contract out or 1st round picks in I think you look at it. But just for the sake of adding an All Star on a 2 year rental? Questionable at best if not bush league GMing. My guess is that with Ryan extended it may be a lot less likely this happens.

His contract was signed under the old CBA, he loses a lot of money signing an extension now. He was always going to opt out in 2019.

[Ring_Wanted]

His contract was signed under the old CBA, he loses a lot of money signing an extension now. He was always going to opt out in 2019.

Absolutely. A lot can happen in two years, but Irving is testing the FA market. Then it will a matter of a) offering the absolute max, no question asked AND b) the guy actually wanting to stick with the Suns instead of bolting for other franchises like NKY, MIA or who knows what.

I am willing to gamble a prospect and some other minor assets (plus Bledsoe, obviously) but that's it.

My biggest concern, though, is Irving spoiling, alienating Booker or simply not favoring him developing as far as he can.

[ShelC]

Bringing Irving in and alienating Booker is a legit concern. It's been lining up to become Booker's team and now we'd be bringing in an established star player who'd be sharing the backcourt and will need the ball and shots. They could be great together and attract another star player, or there could some tension there and it could lead or Irving leaving and/or Booker being unhappy with the organization. We've had a history of this recently, with Bledsoe/Dragic/Thomas/Knight and even Len and Chandler. It's a very delicate balance.

Has there been any news about Booker? His thoughts? Has he posted anything "recruiting" Kyrie to come here?

[Ring_Wanted]

Has he posted anything "recruiting" Kyrie to come here?

Not as far as I can tell, but Carey, for instance, knows better for sure.

I am terrified to mess it up with Booker. I loved adding MF Jackson to do bodyguard stuff. I want a real big man now to develop a one two punch with Booker as a handler.

Irving with a stupid cheap trade is tempting, but I'd rest way more if we were a facilitator with Kyrie going to a thrid team.

[O_Gardino]

Regarding Kyrie, I wonder if we are looking at this backwards. The question is whether a team with Kyrie and Booker as the big guns CAN work. With two scoring guards, it becomes imperative to have a distributing point forward. Hence, Josh Jackson CANNOT be part of a trade package because his utility value on such a team is higher than his trade value.

The same is true for Bender, IMHO. Chriss is a better scorer but Bender the better defender and distributor. Indeed, you will need someone with these attributes to backstop the poor defending guards.

Run the following lineup:

Kyrie
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Frye

And I think it could actually work. Substitute Chriss for Bender and IMHO you will have a mess...

That's exactly how some of us are thinking about it. We don't want Kyrie just for the sake of having Kyrie. If we don't end up with a team that can win, then I don't want to give up draft picks or young guys with good upside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[O_Gardino]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 541226001/

Kyrie Irving trade rumors turned to the Suns again on Friday following a report originating in Minnesota which indicated the Suns were willing to part with Eric Bledsoe, Dragan Bender and a first-round pick in exchange for Irving.

It was previously reported by ESPN that the Suns were one of six teams to have made the Cleveland Cavaliers an offer for Irving’s services.

San Antonio, the Los Angeles Clippers, Minnesota, the New York Knicks and Miami were the other teams reported to have made offers for Irving.

The Spurs, Timberwolves, Knicks and Heat reportedly are the four teams for which Irving wants to play.

Let's help him go to the Knicks and come away with a pick and a Frenchman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Split T]

Bringing Irving in and alienating Booker is a legit concern. It's been lining up to become Booker's team and now we'd be bringing in an established star player who'd be sharing the backcourt and will need the ball and shots. They could be great together and attract another star player, or there could some tension there and it could lead or Irving leaving and/or Booker being unhappy with the organization. We've had a history of this recently, with Bledsoe/Dragic/Thomas/Knight and even Len and Chandler. It's a very delicate balance.

Has there been any news about Booker? His thoughts? Has he posted anything "recruiting" Kyrie to come here?

I'm not entirely convinced Booker is a #1 guy. Kyrie can be on offense. As for the recruiting, right after the trade rumors, Kyrie liked a video on Instagram of booker and then Booker starting following Kyrie. There was also a report of a guy close to Kyrie saying he thought Kyrie would be fine with Phoenix because he liked Booker. Nothing concrete though.

My thoughts are that Kyrie is a tier above Bledsoe as a PG and younger, which is important because he potentially fits the timeline better. So what are we willing to give up for that upgrade? I'm not super high on Warren, Chriss, or Bender. I think they all have value, but all three have some pretty glaring flaws right now. I don't think any is a star. I'd willingly include 1 of them in the trade. I think my preference would go Warren, Chriss, Bender. As for the Miami pick, Miami is almost definitely a playoff team in the East this year, that pick is gonna be mid to late teens and while I'd love to keep it, I'd rather have Kyrie.

So in short,
Bledsoe, not a star
Warren/Chriss/Bender, not likely to be stars
Miami 1st, unlikely to be a star
Kyrie, a star.

An actual star is better than 3 non/unlikely stars.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

My thoughts are that Kyrie is a tier above Bledsoe as a PG and younger, which is important because he potentially fits the timeline better. So what are we willing to give up for that upgrade? I'm not super high on Warren, Chriss, or Bender. I think they all have value, but all three have some pretty glaring flaws right now. I don't think any is a star. I'd willingly include 1 of them in the trade. I think my preference would go Warren, Chriss, Bender. As for the Miami pick, Miami is almost definitely a playoff team in the East this year, that pick is gonna be mid to late teens and while I'd love to keep it, I'd rather have Kyrie.

So in short,
Bledsoe, not a star
Warren/Chriss/Bender, not likely to be stars
Miami 1st, unlikely to be a star
Kyrie, a star.

An actual star is better than 3 non/unlikely stars.

+1

We can't be afraid of Booker getting alienated if a big gun arrives, he should be happy to get help. And if he can't deal with it, are we really contemplating to let him be our Iverson/Isaiah, and surround him with super role players and such?

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Has there been any news about Booker? His thoughts? Has he posted anything "recruiting" Kyrie to come here?

I'm not entirely convinced Booker is a #1 guy. Kyrie can be on offense. As for the recruiting, right after the trade rumors, Kyrie liked a video on Instagram of booker and then Booker starting following Kyrie. There was also a report of a guy close to Kyrie saying he thought Kyrie would be fine with Phoenix because he liked Booker. Nothing concrete though.

Hehe
That's a small but good gesture on both sides, classy and not worthy a "flash news" article that could tangle things. I started dating my girlfriend out of something like this. Smooth move by Irving.

It's clear that Irving is burning bridges with Cleveland, and maybe, just maybe, Kyrie knows that Bledsoe has already be chosen by the King, so as a good departure "screw you" present for the Cavs, he is deflating his value in purpose, and at the same time he gets to play for a less depleted team, either us or any other.

[ShelC]

My thoughts are that Kyrie is a tier above Bledsoe as a PG and younger, which is important because he potentially fits the timeline better. So what are we willing to give up for that upgrade? I'm not super high on Warren, Chriss, or Bender. I think they all have value, but all three have some pretty glaring flaws right now. I don't think any is a star. I'd willingly include 1 of them in the trade. I think my preference would go Warren, Chriss, Bender. As for the Miami pick, Miami is almost definitely a playoff team in the East this year, that pick is gonna be mid to late teens and while I'd love to keep it, I'd rather have Kyrie.

So in short,
Bledsoe, not a star
Warren/Chriss/Bender, not likely to be stars
Miami 1st, unlikely to be a star
Kyrie, a star.

An actual star is better than 3 non/unlikely stars.

+1

We can't be afraid of Booker getting alienated if a big gun arrives, he should be happy to get help. And if he can't deal with it, are we really contemplating to let him be our Iverson/Isaiah, and surround him with super role players and such?

It's one thing if the big gun is a big who will complement him in the frontcourt. It's another thing if the big gun is a ball dominant, scoring PG who may overshadow him.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

+1
We can't be afraid of Booker getting alienated if a big gun arrives, he should be happy to get help. And if he can't deal with it, are we really contemplating to let him be our Iverson/Isaiah, and surround him with super role players and such?

It's one thing if the big gun is a big who will complement him in the frontcourt. It's another thing if the big gun is a ball dominant, scoring PG who may overshadow him.

Granted, but still, if Ego gets in the way, you might feel overshadowed no matter the position or even team success: Kobe & Shaq, Marion & Amare... Kyrie and Lebron!!!

This man already managed to endure THREE years playing for the King's Lebronettes is n Cleveland, therefore most people are granting him the right to leave. After that experience, the big question is if he wants his own kingdom to rule, or just looking for a TEAM, where he is one of the cornerstones, not just a throne bearer, and truht is the media is unable or unwilling to provide fair scope on this. If the second is true, then the problem is not Irving, but Booker. He must learn to say "Welcome to OUR team", instead of "Welcome to MY team" . Fans and media loves to pit players against each other on this bogus accolades, but if we are truly building this thing right, is a key ingredient to stop acknowledging "properties".

Annyway, players quickly grow tired of being The Man on losing teams, so prioritizing the protection of Booker's ego -strong or fragile as it is- over talent acquisition, is detrimental to The Team. Take example from Curry and Durant last year, TEAM over "ownership".

[1tinsoldier]

a team needs balance and the successful ones have stars who play roles. i guess it's a matter of the stars being smart enough to adapt to the needs of the team. is kyrie smart enough? 2 who weren't -- iverson and carmelo, for example

[Mori Chu]

Bringing Irving in and alienating Booker is a legit concern. It's been lining up to become Booker's team and now we'd be bringing in an established star player who'd be sharing the backcourt and will need the ball and shots. They could be great together and attract another star player, or there could some tension there and it could lead or Irving leaving and/or Booker being unhappy with the organization. We've had a history of this recently, with Bledsoe/Dragic/Thomas/Knight and even Len and Chandler. It's a very delicate balance.

Has there been any news about Booker? His thoughts? Has he posted anything "recruiting" Kyrie to come here?

I'm not entirely convinced Booker is a #1 guy. Kyrie can be on offense. As for the recruiting, right after the trade rumors, Kyrie liked a video on Instagram of booker and then Booker starting following Kyrie. There was also a report of a guy close to Kyrie saying he thought Kyrie would be fine with Phoenix because he liked Booker. Nothing concrete though.

My thoughts are that Kyrie is a tier above Bledsoe as a PG and younger, which is important because he potentially fits the timeline better. So what are we willing to give up for that upgrade? I'm not super high on Warren, Chriss, or Bender. I think they all have value, but all three have some pretty glaring flaws right now. I don't think any is a star. I'd willingly include 1 of them in the trade. I think my preference would go Warren, Chriss, Bender. As for the Miami pick, Miami is almost definitely a playoff team in the East this year, that pick is gonna be mid to late teens and while I'd love to keep it, I'd rather have Kyrie.

So in short,
Bledsoe, not a star
Warren/Chriss/Bender, not likely to be stars
Miami 1st, unlikely to be a star
Kyrie, a star.

An actual star is better than 3 non/unlikely stars.

Good post. I agree with pretty much all of it, though I'd rather part with Chriss than Warren. Would you still do the trade if it had all of the 3 assets you list above, plus another non-Jackson asset? What about if it included a future first-rounder of ours, just not our 2018 first-rounder? What if it were say our 2020 first-rounder or 2022? What if instead of that Suns first rounder, we gave them 1-2 second-round picks? Would you still do the deal?

[Split T]

Bringing Irving in and alienating Booker is a legit concern. It's been lining up to become Booker's team and now we'd be bringing in an established star player who'd be sharing the backcourt and will need the ball and shots. They could be great together and attract another star player, or there could some tension there and it could lead or Irving leaving and/or Booker being unhappy with the organization. We've had a history of this recently, with Bledsoe/Dragic/Thomas/Knight and even Len and Chandler. It's a very delicate balance.

Has there been any news about Booker? His thoughts? Has he posted anything "recruiting" Kyrie to come here?

I'm not entirely convinced Booker is a #1 guy. Kyrie can be on offense. As for the recruiting, right after the trade rumors, Kyrie liked a video on Instagram of booker and then Booker starting following Kyrie. There was also a report of a guy close to Kyrie saying he thought Kyrie would be fine with Phoenix because he liked Booker. Nothing concrete though.

My thoughts are that Kyrie is a tier above Bledsoe as a PG and younger, which is important because he potentially fits the timeline better. So what are we willing to give up for that upgrade? I'm not super high on Warren, Chriss, or Bender. I think they all have value, but all three have some pretty glaring flaws right now. I don't think any is a star. I'd willingly include 1 of them in the trade. I think my preference would go Warren, Chriss, Bender. As for the Miami pick, Miami is almost definitely a playoff team in the East this year, that pick is gonna be mid to late teens and while I'd love to keep it, I'd rather have Kyrie.

So in short,
Bledsoe, not a star
Warren/Chriss/Bender, not likely to be stars
Miami 1st, unlikely to be a star
Kyrie, a star.

An actual star is better than 3 non/unlikely stars.

Good post. I agree with pretty much all of it, though I'd rather part with Chriss than Warren. Would you still do the trade if it had all of the 3 assets you list above, plus another non-Jackson asset? What about if it included a future first-rounder of ours, just not our 2018 first-rounder? What if it were say our 2020 first-rounder or 2022? What if instead of that Suns first rounder, we gave them 1-2 second-round picks? Would you still do the deal?

I wouldn't offer more than Bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but I might accept an offer from Cleveland for more than that if it came down to it. I wouldn't send our unprotected 2018 1st, but I'd probably be ok if it was at least top 5 protected. I'm also not too keen on moving more than 2 young players. I'd add a 3rd player if it was Chandler or Dudley. I'd also consider adding another draft pick as long as our 2018 pick is not one of them.

So, long story short, my absolute max offers is accept would be:

Bled/Warren or Chriss or Bender/2018 top 5 protected
Bled/Warren or Chriss or Bender/2018 Miami 1st/Future Suns pick*

*I'd never trade a future completely unprotected pick, I'd need at least top 5-7 protection.

[In2ition]

*

*I'd never trade a future completely unprotected pick, I'd need at least top 5-7 protection.

I agree. If the Suns traded an unprotected pick, that would be the year that the pick wins the lottery, guaranteed.