Page 6 of 8
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:58 am
by O_Gardino
In2ition wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:00 pm
Wally_West wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:31 pm
Okobo
Booker
Bridges
Warren
Ayton
That’s needs to be the starting 5 going forward.
I second this lineup. On top of this, but maybe they should try Bender in front of Anderson and Holmes in front of Chandler going forward. I'm ok with Ariza backing up or even starting at the sf, but they need to play Bridges and Warren and I hope to never see Canaan again. Can we trade Canaan, Chandler and Anderson for Love?
Yes, please, and let's try Melton as the backup 2.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:52 am
by Indy
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:47 am
Do folks on here realize that we are missing our best player? If Lebron were out, the Lakers would lose games. If the Jazz were missing Donovan Mitchell, they'd lose games. And so on.
Our best player is a net negative by 9 points every 100 possessions. And we were getting blown out with him on the court too. The problems are more than missing Booker for a couple games.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
by Indy
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:00 am
by Wormwood
I keep saying it... get Tyus Jones. He addresses:
* 3 point shooting
* High assist to T/O ratio
* Low, low turnovers.
* Top flight defender at PG.
Leading the T-wolves in net +/- per 48 plus minus (again) this season.
Because his offensive stats (like PER) aren't gaudy, and has a low usage rate surrounded by guys who want the ball int heir hands, and gets limited minutes, we can get him for a great price. Probably the most undervalued player in the league right now.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:01 am
by Superbone
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
IOW, if we cut out the turnovers, we'll be the best team in the league. From worst to first. Cool.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
by Xylus
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
by specialsauce
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 am
by Superbone
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
Our players were driving me CRAZY last night. The were making such terrible passes that were getting turned over. Just clean that up and we would seriously be a lot better and not allow teams to go on crazy runs.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am
by Xylus
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
I agree. A competent PG would make the biggest difference, though.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am
by specialsauce
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
Our players were driving me CRAZY last night. The were making such terrible passes that were getting turned over. Just clean that up and we would seriously be a lot better and not allow teams to go on crazy runs.
There was one sequence I swear they tried a cross court pass 3 times in a row and each time it was easily stolen. How many times before they realize you can’t do that at this level??
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:11 am
by specialsauce
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
I agree. A competent PG would make the biggest difference, though.
Again, PG is not where the TOs are coming from. I disagree.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:18 am
by Xylus
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:11 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
I agree. A competent PG would make the biggest difference, though.
Again, PG is not where the TOs are coming from. I disagree.
Because we don't have a competent PG who can turn the ball over. So you rely on a PG-less offense that requires more ball handling from your wings who don't excel in that area.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:20 am
by specialsauce
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:18 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:11 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:02 am
Honestly, this makes me feel a lot better about the state of our team. Even when they're getting blown out, they're still executing Igor's offensive schemes instead of reverting to straight-up hero ball. We can pin this problem to a simple root cause: No competent PG.
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
I agree. A competent PG would make the biggest difference, though.
Again, PG is not where the TOs are coming from. I disagree.
Because we don't have a competent PG who can turn the ball over. So you rely on a PG-less offense that requires more ball handling from your wings who don't excel in that area.
I think you’re thinking the offense will change with a PG. This motion offense is Igor’s offense. You can upgrade the 1 but the weaves and movement are his forte and that relies on all the wings. The wings that are turning the ball over at a record rate.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:24 am
by Xylus
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:20 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:18 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:11 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:10 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
It really is so much more than a competent PG. A competent PG is really just going to dribble the ball up the court and initiate the set; so many of our turnovers come within the set offense. The way this offense is everybody seems to touch the ball and the second or third player to touch it tries to make a cross court I’ll advised pass or throws it at Aytons feet. One player won’t fix that. If Canaan has 7 turnovers per game, then okay, but the PG isn’t the issue here with turnovers.
It’s getting players like Ariza and Josh Jackson to play smarter, or cutting them out of the rotation.
I agree. A competent PG would make the biggest difference, though.
Again, PG is not where the TOs are coming from. I disagree.
Because we don't have a competent PG who can turn the ball over. So you rely on a PG-less offense that requires more ball handling from your wings who don't excel in that area.
I think you’re thinking the offense will change with a PG. This motion offense is Igor’s offense. You can upgrade the 1 but the weaves and movement are his forte and that relies on all the wings. The wings that are turning the ball over at a record rate.
Well we can settle this debate by trading for a competent PG. Get it done, James.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:30 am
by LazarusLong
More grist for the mill:
After six games, among players with significant minutes, Josh Jackson has a woeful -0.3 PER with 3.8 TOs per game.
He is shooting .377 from the field and .364 from the free-thrown line.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:32 am
by Xylus
I didn't know negative PER was possible.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:34 am
by djy2j
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:52 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:47 am
Do folks on here realize that we are missing our best player? If Lebron were out, the Lakers would lose games. If the Jazz were missing Donovan Mitchell, they'd lose games. And so on.
Our best player is a net negative by 9 points every 100 possessions. And we were getting blown out with him on the court too. The problems are more than missing Booker for a couple games.
I second this. I don't feel much better about this team even when Booker is out there. Shoddy passing is by biggest beef but the lack of energy and effort stands out to me. We shouldn't be this settled into losing already. I see a team that's fine with losing right now. It's become an acceptable norm.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:22 am
by O_Gardino
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am
Xylus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:02 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:40 am
One good thing about our team this year, and Igor's offense:
We are #1 in the league in assisted FGs. We have over 67% of our FGs assisted. Last year it was 55%, and 27th in the league. Last year GSW lead with 68%, and only 2 teams were above 65% (GSW, 76ers).
On the down side, we lead the league in TO/FG at 48%. We also led last year at 41%.
Great observation about the offense. It's pretty remarkable that we're also top 10 in the league in effective FG % but still getting blown out every night. Averaging 18.8 TO's a game will do that, I guess.
Exactly. Honestly, if we were around league average on TOs, that would also help our transition defense, and we would be saving about 10 points a game.
How many of those turnovers are passes to Ayton and Chandler's knees? Maybe cleaning up that one thing would make a big enough difference to keep us in ballgames.
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:24 am
by JCSunsfan
specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:31 pm
Wally_West wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:31 pm
Okobo
Booker
Bridges
Warren
Ayton
That’s needs to be the starting 5 going forward.
100% agree.
What a draft. Three rookies in the starting line up?
Re: Game Day: Suns (1-4) @ Thunder (0-4), Sun 10/28/18
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 am
by Wormwood
LazarusLong wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:30 am
More grist for the mill:
After six games, among players with significant minutes, Josh Jackson has a woeful
-0.3 PER with 3.8 TOs per game.
He is shooting .377 from the field and .364 from the free-thrown line.
Right now, based on PER and minutes played (EWA and VA), Josh Jackson has done more to hurt his team than any player in the league.
By a wide margin.