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I love Bridges, but he’s not Marion yet. Marion wasn’t a traditional star, but he was a top 15-20 player in the nba for a few years. He even got mvp votes in 05-06.

I love Mikal, but Marion was better than Bridges on both ends of the floor. Bridges is a better shooter, but that's about it. Marion's rebounding was exceptional, as one example. And his athleticism was leaps and bounds above Bridges, literally.

Marions defense was always extremely overrated IMO. He had Kelly Oubre D- for the steals and the blocks. But his on ball D was average to me.

Mikal is an elite on ball defender

strong disagree there. He was playing mostly against front court players, and wasn't going for the steals and blocks. They had him guarding guys like Elton Brand and Dirk in the same playoffs.

He was also a huge reason Dallas upset Miami in the finals. His defense on Lebron was excellent.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:19 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:01 am

I'd also add Bridges and maybe Payne to that group. At this point Bridges feels like a Marion type third wheel.

That is an insult to Shawn Marion. Marion was essentially good for 20/10 any night of the week.

Oatmeal wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:57 am

I don't know, his shooting/cutting/defense are all borderline great. He's our Shane Battier. Super glue guy. Gluperstar if you will.

I think Battier is a closer comparison, but Bridges is better. Battier < Bridges < Marion

I feel like I'm being quoted out of context here. I specifically mentioned that he's a Marion-type in the sense that he isn't able to create offense for himself. I did not at any point compare his overall impact to Marion at his peak, so no, I'm not insulting Marion.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:40 pm

strong disagree there. He was playing mostly against front court players, and wasn't going for the steals and blocks. They had him guarding guys like Elton Brand and Dirk in the same playoffs.

I just never felt like he shut anyone down. He played hard and scrappy but nobody ever feared him. He don’t have a Mikal Jail

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:32 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:40 pm

strong disagree there. He was playing mostly against front court players, and wasn't going for the steals and blocks. They had him guarding guys like Elton Brand and Dirk in the same playoffs.

I just never felt like he shut anyone down. He played hard and scrappy but nobody ever feared him. He don’t have a Mikal Jail

That is a twiiter thing. If that existed back that then there would have been plenty of matrix-themed memes of a similar fashion.

And like Split said, his defense on Lebron is one of the key reasons the Mavericks won a ring.

Shawn Marion averaged 2.0+ steals and 1.0+ blocks for seven straight seasons.

Let's see Mikal do that once before we start putting him in the same defensive category as Marion.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:57 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:32 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:40 pm

strong disagree there. He was playing mostly against front court players, and wasn't going for the steals and blocks. They had him guarding guys like Elton Brand and Dirk in the same playoffs.

I just never felt like he shut anyone down. He played hard and scrappy but nobody ever feared him. He don’t have a Mikal Jail

That is a twiiter thing. If that existed back that then there would have been plenty of matrix-themed memes of a similar fashion.

And like Split said, his defense on Lebron is one of the key reasons the Mavericks won a ring.

Absoolutely. It is crazy that Marion never was named to the all defense team. Playing on generally bad defensive teams really punished him, the same way Duncan never was named DPOY because the Spurs had many defensive savants plus Pop.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:57 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:32 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:40 pm

strong disagree there. He was playing mostly against front court players, and wasn't going for the steals and blocks. They had him guarding guys like Elton Brand and Dirk in the same playoffs.

I just never felt like he shut anyone down. He played hard and scrappy but nobody ever feared him. He don’t have a Mikal Jail

That is a twiiter thing. If that existed back that then there would have been plenty of matrix-themed memes of a similar fashion.

And like Split said, his defense on Lebron is one of the key reasons the Mavericks won a ring.

Very true that Twitter and the video breakdowns of our players these days really put their strengths and weaknesses under a microscope

pickle wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:20 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:19 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:01 am

I'd also add Bridges and maybe Payne to that group. At this point Bridges feels like a Marion type third wheel.

That is an insult to Shawn Marion. Marion was essentially good for 20/10 any night of the week.

Oatmeal wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:57 am

I don't know, his shooting/cutting/defense are all borderline great. He's our Shane Battier. Super glue guy. Gluperstar if you will.

I think Battier is a closer comparison, but Bridges is better. Battier < Bridges < Marion

I feel like I'm being quoted out of context here. I specifically mentioned that he's a Marion-type in the sense that he isn't able to create offense for himself. I did not at any point compare his overall impact to Marion at his peak, so no, I'm not insulting Marion.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to misquote you. I don't think Bridges is good enough to be a third wheel though.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:37 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:20 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:19 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:01 am

I'd also add Bridges and maybe Payne to that group. At this point Bridges feels like a Marion type third wheel.

That is an insult to Shawn Marion. Marion was essentially good for 20/10 any night of the week.

Oatmeal wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:57 am

I don't know, his shooting/cutting/defense are all borderline great. He's our Shane Battier. Super glue guy. Gluperstar if you will.

I think Battier is a closer comparison, but Bridges is better. Battier < Bridges < Marion

I feel like I'm being quoted out of context here. I specifically mentioned that he's a Marion-type in the sense that he isn't able to create offense for himself. I did not at any point compare his overall impact to Marion at his peak, so no, I'm not insulting Marion.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to misquote you. I don't think Bridges is good enough to be a third wheel though.

I guess we are getting a little technical here. I agree that he won't be a third wheel, but that also kind of depends on how we define third wheel. On this team today, I'd say it's easily arguable that he's the third most important player, with Ayton and Saric closely behind him. But I would not dump the ball to him in crunch time and ask him to make a play, whereas I can see even Ayton becoming that if he played a bit more physically, and Saric has been obviously impressive with his decision making whether he's on the block or at the 3.

I will say though, Bridges has improved his ability to put the ball on the floor once opposing defenders close out on him. Not quite the same as handling the ball and using dribble moves to create space to shoot or pass, but it's a start. I sometimes get the sense that his long inspector gadget arms are a net negative for his ball handling as he doesn't generate enough power on those dribbles. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:47 pm

I guess we are getting a little technical here. I agree that he won't be a third wheel, but that also kind of depends on how we define third wheel.

Third wheel = 3rd best player on a championship caliber team.

I don't think that is Bridges.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:49 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:47 pm

I guess we are getting a little technical here. I agree that he won't be a third wheel, but that also kind of depends on how we define third wheel.

Third wheel = 3rd best player on a championship caliber team.

I don't think that is Bridges.

So what do you call a 3rd best player on a non championship caliber team?

And are the Suns not championship caliber right now (tend to agree) or is Bridges not the 3rd best player on this team (tend to disagree)?

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:55 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:49 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:47 pm

I guess we are getting a little technical here. I agree that he won't be a third wheel, but that also kind of depends on how we define third wheel.

Third wheel = 3rd best player on a championship caliber team.

I don't think that is Bridges.

So what do you call a 3rd best player on a non championship caliber team?

And are the Suns not championship caliber right now (tend to agree) or is Bridges not the 3rd best player on this team (tend to disagree)?

The Suns look like a championship caliber team, but we'll see. And certainly there are historical outliers. Even last year, the Lakers won it without that third wheel. It usually was a different guy every night: Rondo, Kieff, KCP, Kuzma.

But generally speaking, usually the third best player on a championship team (and most contenders) is better than Bridges.

I have been a Suns fan for over 30 years, and it has really damaged my psyche, so I actually don't think we are a championship contender at all.

Most contenders' third best players may very well be better than Bridges, but I do think that if we take one player out of the lineup and gauge the impact on the team, Bridges is the third most impactful because of his ability to defend the opposing team's best wing/guard while still able to play extremely efficient offense. He still has room to grow and as perhaps my favorite player on the team right now I definitely root for him to do that.

I get the Lakers scenario but I don't think that's what we have.

3rd best player on each contender:

Lakers: Schroeder
Clippers: Ibaka?
Bucks: Jrue or Middleton
Nets: Kyrie
76ers: Harris
Jazz: Conley
Heat: Dragic
Nuggets: MPJ
Suns: Bridges

Bridges isn’t the worst of those guys. I think he could pass as a 3rd guy. Helps if 4-8 is solid, which I think is the case for us.

Honestly those top eastern teams have the best 3rd pieces.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:49 pm

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:47 pm

I guess we are getting a little technical here. I agree that he won't be a third wheel, but that also kind of depends on how we define third wheel.

Third wheel = 3rd best player on a championship caliber team.

I don't think that is Bridges.

I think he can grow into that. He certainly is on his best nights, just needs to develop consistency on the offensive end