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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:25 am
by UglyTruth
INFORMER wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:26 pm
In-season? Come December, open the trade flood gates. Look to reboot the roster using Ariza, Jackson, Holmes, the Milwaukee pick, Troy Daniels, and the 2019 second rounder.
I think we'll have to wait until December and January for the trade market to open up.
I’m not saying it’s wrong to wait till December/January (as more guys are tradable then which gives us more flexible options) but I think most of this team will have checked out mentally if they keep this same roster till then.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:03 am
by Indy
UglyTruth wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:25 am
INFORMER wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:26 pm
In-season? Come December, open the trade flood gates. Look to reboot the roster using Ariza, Jackson, Holmes, the Milwaukee pick, Troy Daniels, and the 2019 second rounder.
I think we'll have to wait until December and January for the trade market to open up.
I’m not saying it’s wrong to wait till December/January (as more guys are tradable then which gives us more flexible options) but I think most of this team will have checked out mentally if they keep this same roster till then.
Who hasn't checked out yet? Of our top 8 in minutes played:
Code: Select all
Rk MP eFG% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Trevor Ariza 436 .478 72 44 10 5 21 23 133
2 Deandre Ayton 424 .604 138 38 8 10 29 35 207
3 Devin Booker 359 .505 38 64 10 1 46 35 243
4 Isaiah Canaan 343 .478 37 42 9 0 22 33 103
5 T.J. Warren 329 .565 50 14 9 10 14 26 197
6 Mikal Bridges 239 .527 20 12 15 3 12 24 93
7 Ryan Anderson 238 .391 39 16 3 0 10 18 54
8 Josh Jackson 224 .444 26 20 6 8 35 31 87
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 11/14/2018.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:27 am
by Wormwood
Net +/- per 48 ratings. This team is bad. The biggest problem, besides the obvious no point guard, is that there's no one who plays decent defense besides Bridges right now. Jared Dudley, simply based on floor spacing and defense, was one of our top players the past 2 years, because defense.
Here's the thing, though... bad defensive players rarely if ever get better. It's a mindset. You need someone who will kill a mutha ****er before they let them score. Our stars, Ayton, Booker, and Warren, have what ever the opposite of that is. We're not getting better with this as our core. It finally occurred to me that part of the reason we cannot attract FA's is that other NBA players know this. They know that this group is basically a bunch of defenseless losers who will never really amount to much unless isolated on a team where their defensive liabilities can be hidden.
This is part of why Richaun Holmes grades out about as well as Booker by this stat: effort and some sort desire to play defense. At this point, I'd happily trade away everyone but Bridges. Ayton MIGHT get better defensively, but the odds are slim.
MISC Net +/- per 48
1 Bridges, Mikal SF 1.6
5 Holmes, Richaun PF -9.4
10 Booker, Devin SG -9.9
11 Ayton, Deandre C -10.3
7 Anderson, Ryan PF -10.5
12 Canaan, Isaiah PG -13.3
6 Okobo, Elie PG -13.3
13 Warren, TJ SF -14.3
3 Bender, Dragan PF -17.1
15 Ariza, Trevor SF -17.3
14 Jackson, Josh SF -21.7
9 Crawford, Jamal SG -29.7
8 Chandler, Tyson C -36.2
4 Melton, De'Anthony PG -41.5
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:43 am
by ShelC
The right personnel can compensate for 2 bad defenders like Booker and Ayton. And their offensive gifts can outweigh their bad defense if the other 3 guys are locked in. If we're a halfcourt, grinding team playing thru Booker and Ayton with a PG who can keep his man in front of him, a wing like Bridges to play defense on the perimeter and an athletic shotblocker at PF, we'll be fine.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 am
by Indy
Wormwood wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:27 am
Net +/- per 48 ratings. This team is bad. The biggest problem, besides the obvious no point guard, is that there's no one who plays decent defense besides Bridges right now. Jared Dudley, simply based on floor spacing and defense, was one of our top players the past 2 years, because defense.
Here's the thing, though... bad defensive players rarely if ever get better. It's a mindset. You need someone who will kill a mutha ****er before they let them score. Our stars, Ayton, Booker, and Warren, have what ever the opposite of that is. We're not getting better with this as our core. It finally occurred to me that part of the reason we cannot attract FA's is that other NBA players know this. They know that this group is basically a bunch of defenseless losers who will never really amount to much unless isolated on a team where their defensive liabilities can be hidden.
This is part of why Richaun Holmes grades out about as well as Booker by this stat: effort and some sort desire to play defense. At this point, I'd happily trade away everyone but Bridges. Ayton MIGHT get better defensively, but the odds are slim.
MISC Net +/- per 48
1 Bridges, Mikal SF 1.6
5 Holmes, Richaun PF -9.4
10 Booker, Devin SG -9.9
11 Ayton, Deandre C -10.3
7 Anderson, Ryan PF -10.5
12 Canaan, Isaiah PG -13.3
6 Okobo, Elie PG -13.3
13 Warren, TJ SF -14.3
3 Bender, Dragan PF -17.1
15 Ariza, Trevor SF -17.3
14 Jackson, Josh SF -21.7
9 Crawford, Jamal SG -29.7
8 Chandler, Tyson C -36.2
4 Melton, De'Anthony PG -41.5
Where did you get these numbers? They look quite a bit different than these from bb-ref.
Code: Select all
Poss Poss Poss Net
Rk Player G MP Tm Opp Pace PTS
1 Troy Daniels 4 37.5 79 80 101.8 +5.1
2 Mikal Bridges 12 239.5 487 477 96.6 +2.2
3 Richaun Holmes 12 112.7 231 224 96.9 -8.9
4 Devin Booker 10 358.8 714 714 95.5 -10.2
5 Deandre Ayton 13 425.1 836 843 94.8 -10.6
6 Ryan Anderson 11 237.7 463 470 94.2 -11.9
7 Elie Okobo 11 166.4 335 327 95.5 -13.0
8 Isaiah Canaan 12 342.8 675 689 95.5 -13.2
9 Dragan Bender 4 14.5 29 28 94.6 -13.3
10 T.J. Warren 12 329.5 682 675 98.8 -13.8
11 Trevor Ariza 13 436.0 869 871 95.8 -17.4
12 Josh Jackson 13 224.5 453 455 97.1 -21.2
13 Jamal Crawford 11 109.9 233 233 101.7 -28.4
14 Tyson Chandler 7 89.0 191 194 103.8 -35.6
15 DeAnthony Melton 2 22.6 48 50 104.3 -40.4
Provided by
Basketball-Reference.com:
View Original Table
Generated 11/14/2018.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am
by Cap
Look pretty similar to me. One’s per 48 minutes and the other’s per 100 possessions, I think.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am
by Wormwood
Indy:
Calculated from the numbers here:
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/phoenix-s ... er=0&opp=0
The numbers you cite still tell roughly the same story. I omitted Troy Daniels for lack of playing time.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:20 am
by AmareIsGod
We should probably omit Dudley then too. Guy rode the bench the last 2 years.
Re: Game Day: Suns (2-10) @ Thunder (7-5), Mon 11/12/18
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:59 am
by Indy
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am
Look pretty similar to me. One’s per 48 minutes and the other’s per 100 possessions, I think.
The ones from BB-ref were per 48 as well. That is why I was confused. Similar, but different.