Phx-Suns.Net

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:42 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:25 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:18 pm

I think roster construction is their biggest problem, but I don't think Vogel has done a very good job either.

Which leads to the question - Who does Ishba replace first - the GM he inherited from Sarver or the coach hired with his approval?

I don't see either one of them as the answer for this team being a title contender.

I had high hopes for Vogel but he sure hasn't shown me much.

Honest question, why?

Honest question, what has he shown as a competent coach this season? Or are you asking why did he have high hopes?

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:00 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:42 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:25 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:18 pm

I think roster construction is their biggest problem, but I don't think Vogel has done a very good job either.

Which leads to the question - Who does Ishba replace first - the GM he inherited from Sarver or the coach hired with his approval?

I don't see either one of them as the answer for this team being a title contender.

I had high hopes for Vogel but he sure hasn't shown me much.

Honest question, why?

Honest question, what has he shown as a competent coach this season? Or are you asking why did he have high hopes?

I think TOO forgot that his team won the NBA championship in 2020.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:00 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:42 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:25 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:18 pm

I think roster construction is their biggest problem, but I don't think Vogel has done a very good job either.

Which leads to the question - Who does Ishba replace first - the GM he inherited from Sarver or the coach hired with his approval?

I don't see either one of them as the answer for this team being a title contender.

I had high hopes for Vogel but he sure hasn't shown me much.

Honest question, why?

Honest question, what has he shown as a competent coach this season? Or do you mean, why did he have high hopes?

I think on the surface, just his resume having won a championship recently gives people hope that he'd be able to bring that level of play to the desert. However, it was a bubble championship and was a funky year... So how much value can you really place on that championship? Also, considering the options of what was out there when we were looking for a coach what better option was out there?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:09 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:00 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:42 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:25 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:18 pm

I think roster construction is their biggest problem, but I don't think Vogel has done a very good job either.

Which leads to the question - Who does Ishba replace first - the GM he inherited from Sarver or the coach hired with his approval?

I don't see either one of them as the answer for this team being a title contender.

I had high hopes for Vogel but he sure hasn't shown me much.

Honest question, why?

Honest question, what has he shown as a competent coach this season? Or are you asking why did he have high hopes?

I think TOO forgot that his team won the NBA championship in 2020.

That bubble championship was carried by 2 HOF players, Vogel showed his ass the very next year. That title doesn't move me.

I wanted Jordy Fernandez…I was fine with Vogel, but I was also fine with Monty. None of the vet coaches moved me significantly. If I could go back now maybe I’d pick Nurse?

I do kind of wonder if the FO knew KD and Book wanted Kevin Young and they just took the head coach that was willing to keep him on and give him control of the offense. I doubt Nurse or Doc would’ve considered that at all. Would make sense of why there were reports Young was the guy and Vogel kind of came out of nowhere. Also makes the reports that Nurse and Rivers removed tbemselves from consideration make sense. We probably were set to hire Kevin Young if we couldn’t find an experienced coach to keep him. Not sure that was a great idea.

We were backed into a corner with Vogel because I'm sure we didn't want a rookie head coach with this roster and these expectations. Vogel had the resume. But I don't think he's connected with the players, certainly not the way Monty had. He's a macro Xs and Os guy but I think misses the little things or at least lets them go instead of confronting guys on them. Also, there's no doubt in my mind KD and Book got the scoop on him from LBJ, who may or may not have had some not so good things to say.

Becky Hammon

I can't understand why some of you think our problem is roster construction.

We got a lot for Ayton, couldn't say no to Beal's trade after KD came here.

At first a lot of people thought we got a lot of good complimentary players like Eubanks, Yuta, KBD, Goodwin, Gordon and neither of them could contribute in a regular basis.

Then we got rid of some, and have Oneal, Young, and the team are still underperforming (and worse, with the same problems all season) , which is a sign that the players aren't the problem, coaching is.

We can say whatever we want about Monty, but his teams (even pre CP3) executed well and left all effort on the court.

Now we play a good quarter and go back to taking the hardest shot and pass available.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:48 pm

I wanted Jordy Fernandez…I was fine with Vogel, but I was also fine with Monty. None of the vet coaches moved me significantly. If I could go back now maybe I’d pick Nurse?

I do kind of wonder if the FO knew KD and Book wanted Kevin Young and they just took the head coach that was willing to keep him on and give him control of the offense. I doubt Nurse or Doc would’ve considered that at all. Would make sense of why there were reports Young was the guy and Vogel kind of came out of nowhere. Also makes the reports that Nurse and Rivers removed tbemselves from consideration make sense. We probably were set to hire Kevin Young if we couldn’t find an experienced coach to keep him. Not sure that was a great idea.

I think this is spot on. It does intrigue me why Book and KD wanted Young so bad (assuming that is the case). He's not shown me anything this year with his offensive schemes that would lead me to believe he's anything special at all. In fact it's more often been the opposite.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:55 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:48 pm

I wanted Jordy Fernandez…I was fine with Vogel, but I was also fine with Monty. None of the vet coaches moved me significantly. If I could go back now maybe I’d pick Nurse?

I do kind of wonder if the FO knew KD and Book wanted Kevin Young and they just took the head coach that was willing to keep him on and give him control of the offense. I doubt Nurse or Doc would’ve considered that at all. Would make sense of why there were reports Young was the guy and Vogel kind of came out of nowhere. Also makes the reports that Nurse and Rivers removed tbemselves from consideration make sense. We probably were set to hire Kevin Young if we couldn’t find an experienced coach to keep him. Not sure that was a great idea.

I think this is spot on. It does intrigue me why Book and KD wanted Young so bad (assuming that is the case). He's not shown me anything this year with his offensive schemes that would lead me to believe he's anything special at all. In fact it's more often been the opposite.

I think both our offense and defense have regressed since Monty left. However, we were doing this similar ISOing offense when Durant joined last year. Could be personnel driven.

I think a lot of it is teams switch our actions a lot. If KD or Book get a mismatch it makes sense to attack it. If you don’t take advantage of a team switching less than ideal defenders onto your stars, they are just going to keep doing it and throwing off your rhythm. Most offenses are designed to run their sets with a defense that is at least trying to keep their defenders on their primary assignments. Switching throws a wrench in that and often the counter is to iso against it.

I don’t have a problem with our iso sets, my biggest issues are we don’t handle blitzes well(we seem unprepared and turn it over way too much) and just lazy passes in general leading to turnovers. We also pass up too many shots. We need to take more 3s and attack less closeouts. It also bugs me when we run those KD-initiated offensive lineups where he’s got no other creators next to him. When everyone is healthy I think Book or Beal need to be out there at all times. At the very least give KD a playmaking big. We’ve been running Allen/Okogie/KD/Bol/Eubanks lineups and other similar ones where there is limited spacing and no other ball handlers. It’s great defensively, but it’s just asking for turnovers.