carey wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't believe some of you guys are pining over Becky Hammon after one Summer League game against us. She may well be a great coach, but we have no proof of that yet. Summer League isn't even NBADL quality. Or even college quality.
It's obvious that you've not seen any of the summer league action outside of the one championship game - and probably only a quarter's worth of that one, tops.
But yeah, I'm sure we'll do *much*, much better with the D'Antoni of defense in Thibodeau - "7 starters", no rookies and all.....
Well, in the brass' defense, the way Longabardi coached the 2014 SL team was proof enough of his utter lack of coaching chops. And Sichting seemed to be nothing but benign, anyways. Same with Corey Gaines - wonder why the hell he hasn't been let go?
That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what Earl Watson can do with more input.....
Still not sure what to make of this. Rare that the top two assistants get fired and the coach stays. Doesn't seem like Longbardi or Sichting were Hornacek's "guys" but have been there the whole time he's been there. If they were responsible for the offense and defense and you want to change things, why not change and include them? And I just can't see a head coach throwing his assistants under the bus unless the FO just did the dirty work for him.
I do get the feeling, and it's been reported, that we don't want to fire Hornacek. And I do think it'd be a bad look around the league to fire him and make him the fall guy for not being able to coach this roster. He did well 2 years ago and the roster's been turned over since.
Not sure what kind of precedent there is for this. I know Kidd and Lawrence Frank beefed when he was head coach in BK. They were struggling as a team, Kidd and Frank were butting heads so Kidd fired Frank and actually turned the team around. Maybe something like that happens where. Maybe Longabardi's and Sichting's schemes were too complicated?
carey wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't believe some of you guys are pining over Becky Hammon after one Summer League game against us. She may well be a great coach, but we have no proof of that yet. Summer League isn't even NBADL quality. Or even college quality.
It's obvious that you've not seen any of the summer league action outside of the one championship game - and probably only a quarter's worth of that one, tops.
But yeah, I'm sure we'll do *much*, much better with the D'Antoni of defense in Thibodeau - "7 starters", no rookies and all.....
I think that is a misconception about Thibodeau. I did a random sampling of boxscores the 5 seasons he was there and he almost always played 10 guys. He is the one that developed Butler and Taj Gibson. Noah also blossomed under him, increasing his rebound rate and doubling his assists. Was he guilty of playing guys too many minutes sometimes? Probably. Deng sure played a lot. Rose, however, played the exact same minutes as he did under Vinny and his minutes even went down his second season with Thibs.
You're right. I didn't watch a lot of Spurs Summer League basketball. It doesn't change my point though. It's still Summer League. Summer League isn't a barometer for success. It's a barometer for failure.
Really weird move to fire those two assistant coaches. I am so worried that this assistants-fired move means that we're going to hire Earl Watson to replace Horny. I am really, really afraid of that happening. That would be disastrous.
This is starting to look really stupid. They don't have the guts to fire the guy, they just cut his legs out from under him and further undermine his already eroded authority. Just fire the freaking guy if you don't think he has what it takes. S**t or get off the pot, Suns management!
The next three games are Cleveland, SAS and OKC. If this has indeed bought Hornacek time, it has to be more than those games. Such green mile is followed by Sacramento, LAL and CHA. Maybe they set the line there.
They'd be fools to expect wins, but what has to matter is the way the team is used and the way it plays. No Bledsoe and people losing jobs looks like a perfect checkpoint in case there is any deal or whatever other trigger to pull.
One has to assume that any of the guys we've listed would even want to take a job working with this organization as head coach. That's a huge IF.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
carey wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't believe some of you guys are pining over Becky Hammon after one Summer League game against us. She may well be a great coach, but we have no proof of that yet. Summer League isn't even NBADL quality. Or even college quality.
It's obvious that you've not seen any of the summer league action outside of the one championship game - and probably only a quarter's worth of that one, tops.
But yeah, I'm sure we'll do *much*, much better with the D'Antoni of defense in Thibodeau - "7 starters", no rookies and all.....
I think that is a misconception about Thibodeau. I did a random sampling of boxscores the 5 seasons he was there and he almost always played 10 guys. He is the one that developed Butler and Taj Gibson. Noah also blossomed under him, increasing his rebound rate and doubling his assists. Was he guilty of playing guys too many minutes sometimes? Probably. Deng sure played a lot. Rose, however, played the exact same minutes as he did under Vinny and his minutes even went down his second season with Thibs.
You're right. I didn't watch a lot of Spurs Summer League basketball. It doesn't change my point though. It's still Summer League. Summer League isn't a barometer for success. It's a barometer for failure.
So, if SL is to be automatically roundly discounted as a useless failure, why have it at all?
Re: Noah, Gibson and Butler - like he had a choice. LOL! Same with D'Antoni and Barbosa in 2004. Sorry - still not sold on little Thibsy.
Hammon has shown she's more well-rounded coach, IMO. Now, if she pulls the "7 starters" bullshit, *then* get back to me and I'll stand corrected.......
SwingMan wrote:So, if SL is to be automatically roundly discounted as a useless failure, why have it at all?
Re: Noah, Gibson and Butler - like he had a choice. LOL! Same with D'Antoni and Barbosa in 2004. Sorry - still not sold on little Thibsy.
Hammon has shown she's more well-rounded coach, IMO. Now, if she pulls the "7 starters" bullshit, *then* get back to me and I'll stand corrected.......
I don't understand how she's proven anything at all? She's never coached an NBA game in her life. I think we are smart enough as a group to realize that not every Spurs assistant is going to be a good NBA coach, just as not every Spurs assistant GM has gone on to be good. Some have, and some have been awful.
I also don't understand your comment about Thibs not having a choice. He wasn't the GM so of course he just coached the players he had. Those players developed into very good NBA players. If you want to single out someone else to credit for their development besides the players themselves, please do so.
The Summer League itself isn't a failure. It does the job it's there for which is to get your draft pick's feet wet in a number of things related to the NBA. It's just NBA level competition is not one of them. And what I mean by the Summer League being a barometer of failure and not success is this: If you succeed in Summer League it does not mean you'll succeed in the NBA, if you fail in the Summer League it almost always means you'll fail in the NBA.
SwingMan wrote:So, if SL is to be automatically roundly discounted as a useless failure, why have it at all?
Re: Noah, Gibson and Butler - like he had a choice. LOL! Same with D'Antoni and Barbosa in 2004. Sorry - still not sold on little Thibsy.
Hammon has shown she's more well-rounded coach, IMO. Now, if she pulls the "7 starters" bullshit, *then* get back to me and I'll stand corrected.......
I don't understand how she's proven anything at all? She's never coached an NBA game in her life. I think we are smart enough as a group to realize that not every Spurs assistant is going to be a good NBA coach, just as not every Spurs assistant GM has gone on to be good. Some have, and some have been awful.
I also don't understand your comment about Thibs not having a choice. He wasn't the GM so of course he just coached the players he had. Those players developed into very good NBA players. If you want to single out someone else to credit for their development besides the players themselves, please do so.
The Summer League itself isn't a failure. It does the job it's there for which is to get your draft pick's feet wet in a number of things related to the NBA. It's just NBA level competition is not one of them. And what I mean by the Summer League being a barometer of failure and not success is this: If you succeed in Summer League it does not mean you'll succeed in the NBA, if you fail in the Summer League it almost always means you'll fail in the NBA.
You don't understand because you've not seen Hammon in action - shit, her rotations are already better than anything Hornacek's come up with in 3 years. She adjusts on the fly and plays to her team's strengths. Your insulting patronizing that my choice of her as a good coach for us is nothing more than being hypnotized by some Spurs "mystique" doesn't change that a bit. The way she managed that team was impressive, to say the least - competing talent nonwithstanding. Plus, I think she'd be up to the challenge to mold a fresh team.
Far as little Thibsy goes, he didn't develop as much as he merely gave them run - that's where I'm coming from on that end. He had little choice but to play them - he's done better than Hornacek on that end, but is that really saying much?
SwingMan wrote:So, if SL is to be automatically roundly discounted as a useless failure, why have it at all?
Re: Noah, Gibson and Butler - like he had a choice. LOL! Same with D'Antoni and Barbosa in 2004. Sorry - still not sold on little Thibsy.
Hammon has shown she's more well-rounded coach, IMO. Now, if she pulls the "7 starters" bullshit, *then* get back to me and I'll stand corrected.......
I don't understand how she's proven anything at all? She's never coached an NBA game in her life. I think we are smart enough as a group to realize that not every Spurs assistant is going to be a good NBA coach, just as not every Spurs assistant GM has gone on to be good. Some have, and some have been awful.
I also don't understand your comment about Thibs not having a choice. He wasn't the GM so of course he just coached the players he had. Those players developed into very good NBA players. If you want to single out someone else to credit for their development besides the players themselves, please do so.
The Summer League itself isn't a failure. It does the job it's there for which is to get your draft pick's feet wet in a number of things related to the NBA. It's just NBA level competition is not one of them. And what I mean by the Summer League being a barometer of failure and not success is this: If you succeed in Summer League it does not mean you'll succeed in the NBA, if you fail in the Summer League it almost always means you'll fail in the NBA.
You don't understand because you've not seen Hammon in action - shit, her rotations are already better than anything Hornacek's come up with in 3 years. She adjusts on the fly and plays to her team's strengths. Your insulting patronizing that my choice of her as a good coach for us is nothing more than being hypnotized by some Spurs "mystique" doesn't change that a bit. The way she managed that team was impressive, to say the least - competing talent nonwithstanding. Plus, I think she'd be up to the challenge to mold a fresh team.
Far as little Thibsy goes, he didn't develop as much as he merely gave them run - that's where I'm coming from on that end. He had little choice but to play them - he's done better than Hornacek on that end, but is that really saying much?
How can you possibly know that? Even if you watched every Spurs Summer League game, which I doubt, how can you think it says anything about actual NBA coaching? Again, she may be great, but there is so little information to suggest anything other than she can coach the Spurs scheme with a couple of Spurs draft picks. And Summer League rotations? Really? That's one of the things you're basing your argument on?
I've not insulted or patronized you. And "little Thibsy?" He was a pretty successful coach, often succeeding when his best player went out for long stretches. But I guess the jury is still out on him whereas Hammon, who hasn't even coached an NBA game yet, is definitely the next great NBA coach.
carey wrote:...
He was a pretty successful coach, often succeeding when his best player went out for long stretches. But I guess the jury is still out on him...
This is one of the things that made me like Mike D more. I am pretty curious about what he can do on the 76rs. At least he'll have Colangelo's back.
SwingMan wrote:So, if SL is to be automatically roundly discounted as a useless failure, why have it at all?
Re: Noah, Gibson and Butler - like he had a choice. LOL! Same with D'Antoni and Barbosa in 2004. Sorry - still not sold on little Thibsy.
Hammon has shown she's more well-rounded coach, IMO. Now, if she pulls the "7 starters" bullshit, *then* get back to me and I'll stand corrected.......
I don't understand how she's proven anything at all? She's never coached an NBA game in her life. I think we are smart enough as a group to realize that not every Spurs assistant is going to be a good NBA coach, just as not every Spurs assistant GM has gone on to be good. Some have, and some have been awful.
I also don't understand your comment about Thibs not having a choice. He wasn't the GM so of course he just coached the players he had. Those players developed into very good NBA players. If you want to single out someone else to credit for their development besides the players themselves, please do so.
The Summer League itself isn't a failure. It does the job it's there for which is to get your draft pick's feet wet in a number of things related to the NBA. It's just NBA level competition is not one of them. And what I mean by the Summer League being a barometer of failure and not success is this: If you succeed in Summer League it does not mean you'll succeed in the NBA, if you fail in the Summer League it almost always means you'll fail in the NBA.
You don't understand because you've not seen Hammon in action - shit, her rotations are already better than anything Hornacek's come up with in 3 years. She adjusts on the fly and plays to her team's strengths. Your insulting patronizing that my choice of her as a good coach for us is nothing more than being hypnotized by some Spurs "mystique" doesn't change that a bit. The way she managed that team was impressive, to say the least - competing talent nonwithstanding. Plus, I think she'd be up to the challenge to mold a fresh team.
Far as little Thibsy goes, he didn't develop as much as he merely gave them run - that's where I'm coming from on that end. He had little choice but to play them - he's done better than Hornacek on that end, but is that really saying much?
How can you possibly know that? Even if you watched every Spurs Summer League game, which I doubt, how can you think it says anything about actual NBA coaching? Again, she may be great, but there is so little information to suggest anything other than she can coach the Spurs scheme with a couple of Spurs draft picks. And Summer League rotations? Really? That's one of the things you're basing your argument on?
I've not insulted or patronized you. And "little Thibsy?" He was a pretty successful coach, often succeeding when his best player went out for long stretches. But I guess the jury is still out on him whereas Hammon, who hasn't even coached an NBA game yet, is definitely the next great NBA coach.
Yeah, I watched a shitload of SL action and every Spurs game in it this past July - that's how I can make that determination. The way she managed that team is something Hornacek couldn't possibly grasp.
And yeah, you did patronize - playing off my suggesting Hammon as nothing but base "Spurs mystique". But, being your M.O., I can see where you might be mystified that that's something people might get a little miffed by.
Fuck it - agree to disagree. You go ahead and pine for little Thibsy the retread and I'll pine for a hungry coach who's tailor made for a fresh team looking for a fresh start.....
