Phx-Suns.Net

Suns- Saddiq Bey

Spurs- KBD, Eubanks

Hawks- 2 2nds from us, 2 2nds from spurs

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:20 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:14 pm

If PJ Tucker gets bought out, I’d take his washed ass over KBD. I don’t care. Also that’s saucey’s fav player too. Win-win.

You piece of shit

Would the sixers trade us KJ Martin straight up?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:15 pm

I'm not ready to call it yet, but if this season continues like this the rest of the way, the KD trade was a big mistake. That's on Ishbia. Let's see what he does from here.

I never would have traded away Bridges. I’m all in on the suns. But I always am. Beal is the one who isn’t yet into form. He isn’t finishing great, or finding his spots. This team just needs to let it fucking fly 7SOL- they’ll have to figure out the defense along the way. But playing too slow and the rest the team bricking open shots is killing us on offense and defense.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:54 pm

Unfortunately the way this team has been assembled I don’t see a path towards retooling without trading Book.

I’m really disappointed in him this year. It’s clear he’s not a leader and probably never will be that type. He needs a #1 next to him, and we got KD- another guy similar to Book.

This team needs dogs. There’s too many pussies and zero personality to this squad

Agree with this. We need guys that are willing to gut it out and do the dirty work on the defensive end but can also offer something on offense. PJ Tucker, Jae Crowder or dare I say it, Draymond Green would be ideal.

Unfortunately what we have is a bunch of guys who are great on on offense but can't defend and another bunch who aren't bad on defence but terrible on offense. We have maybe 3 players in the whole group who can do both and none of those are on the bench. That's just not going to get it done.

I can't see Vogel lasting the rest of this month if they continue to play like this. I think he's a good coach, but not for the structure of this team. On paper, the off-season additions looked great, and now guys like KBD, Eubanks and Yuta are completely unplayable. The team needs to lean into its offensive identity since it is crystal clear defense will be an issue. If Vogel does get canned, just go all-in offensively and hire D'Antoni. Not like it could get much worse.

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:45 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:15 pm

I'm not ready to call it yet, but if this season continues like this the rest of the way, the KD trade was a big mistake. That's on Ishbia. Let's see what he does from here.

I never would have traded away Bridges. I’m all in on the suns. But I always am. Beal is the one who isn’t yet into form. He isn’t finishing great, or finding his spots. This team just needs to let it fucking fly 7SOL- they’ll have to figure out the defense along the way. But playing too slow and the rest the team bricking open shots is killing us on offense and defense.

Yeah, bring in D'Antoni! Let's do it.

BigLewy wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:05 pm

I can't see Vogel lasting the rest of this month if they continue to play like this. I think he's a good coach, but not for the structure of this team. On paper, the off-season additions looked great, and now guys like KBD, Eubanks and Yuta are completely unplayable. The team needs to lean into its offensive identity since it is crystal clear defense will be an issue. If Vogel does get canned, just go all-in offensively and hire D'Antoni. Not like it could get much worse.

The consensus is in. D'Antoni it is. Let's go!

Mike D'Antoni is 72. Shouldn't he be running for President? Heyoooo

I wouldn't be averse to D'Antoni either. I'd prefer to stick with Vogel to see if he can figure it out but D'Antoni would be the guy I'd replace him with if we decided to go in a different direction.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:02 pm

Okay here’s my crazy ass, all my chips on the table move. Probably have no 2nds after this,

1st- Trade KBD and Eubanks for 2nd rounders gtfo

2nd- Trade Nurk(I’ll miss your big fat Dick), Goodwin, Multiple 2nds for Marcus Smart.

3rd- Little, Okogie, Yuta 2nd and a 2030( or some other year) 1st round draft swap for Kelly Olynyk

4th- Trade Exception, 2 2nds for Shaddiq Bey

Booker-Beal-Allen-KD-Olynyk

Smart-Gordon-Bey-Bol
Or flip allen and Smart in the starting 5. Whatever floats your boat.
Maybe get a decent pick up from the buyout market as well. No idea is possible players for that tho.

You fix the bench. Get a pg that everyone keeps crying about. Defense and center still sketchy but you would have 8 actual good players( starting 5 + Gordon, Smart, Bey), maybe 9 if Bol is the real deal. You’d have Allen, Olynyk and Bey’s bird rights to re-sign, hopefully on decent deals too, Smart on a multi-year contract already. You’d have continuity for next year plus our draft pick for next year to add to the mix.

I don’t think you’d be able to get Smart for Nurkic…we’d need to have 1sts to offer.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:23 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:02 pm

Okay here’s my crazy ass, all my chips on the table move. Probably have no 2nds after this,

1st- Trade KBD and Eubanks for 2nd rounders gtfo

2nd- Trade Nurk(I’ll miss your big fat Dick), Goodwin, Multiple 2nds for Marcus Smart.

3rd- Little, Okogie, Yuta 2nd and a 2030( or some other year) 1st round draft swap for Kelly Olynyk

4th- Trade Exception, 2 2nds for Shaddiq Bey

Booker-Beal-Allen-KD-Olynyk

Smart-Gordon-Bey-Bol
Or flip allen and Smart in the starting 5. Whatever floats your boat.
Maybe get a decent pick up from the buyout market as well. No idea is possible players for that tho.

You fix the bench. Get a pg that everyone keeps crying about. Defense and center still sketchy but you would have 8 actual good players( starting 5 + Gordon, Smart, Bey), maybe 9 if Bol is the real deal. You’d have Allen, Olynyk and Bey’s bird rights to re-sign, hopefully on decent deals too, Smart on a multi-year contract already. You’d have continuity for next year plus our draft pick for next year to add to the mix.

I don’t think you’d be able to get Smart for Nurkic…we’d need to have 1sts to offer.

I’m not sure why Memphis would want him when they have JJJ and Adams

We are joking about Mike D, right? He's way too old to coach anymore. Unless he was just a fill-in to finish the season while we look for the right candidate. OK, I talked myself into it.

I do absolutely agree that this team should be way better on offense and needs some personality.

Has Ishbia started looking for Jones' replacement yet?

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:23 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:02 pm

Okay here’s my crazy ass, all my chips on the table move. Probably have no 2nds after this,

1st- Trade KBD and Eubanks for 2nd rounders gtfo

2nd- Trade Nurk(I’ll miss your big fat Dick), Goodwin, Multiple 2nds for Marcus Smart.

3rd- Little, Okogie, Yuta 2nd and a 2030( or some other year) 1st round draft swap for Kelly Olynyk

4th- Trade Exception, 2 2nds for Shaddiq Bey

Booker-Beal-Allen-KD-Olynyk

Smart-Gordon-Bey-Bol
Or flip allen and Smart in the starting 5. Whatever floats your boat.
Maybe get a decent pick up from the buyout market as well. No idea is possible players for that tho.

You fix the bench. Get a pg that everyone keeps crying about. Defense and center still sketchy but you would have 8 actual good players( starting 5 + Gordon, Smart, Bey), maybe 9 if Bol is the real deal. You’d have Allen, Olynyk and Bey’s bird rights to re-sign, hopefully on decent deals too, Smart on a multi-year contract already. You’d have continuity for next year plus our draft pick for next year to add to the mix.

I don’t think you’d be able to get Smart for Nurkic…we’d need to have 1sts to offer.

Call me crazy, but I don't want to trade Nurk, even though our reliance on him is part of the problem. He has been great for us. IMO, his value to us is way higher than his market value.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:11 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:23 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:02 pm

Okay here’s my crazy ass, all my chips on the table move. Probably have no 2nds after this,

1st- Trade KBD and Eubanks for 2nd rounders gtfo

2nd- Trade Nurk(I’ll miss your big fat Dick), Goodwin, Multiple 2nds for Marcus Smart.

3rd- Little, Okogie, Yuta 2nd and a 2030( or some other year) 1st round draft swap for Kelly Olynyk

4th- Trade Exception, 2 2nds for Shaddiq Bey

Booker-Beal-Allen-KD-Olynyk

Smart-Gordon-Bey-Bol
Or flip allen and Smart in the starting 5. Whatever floats your boat.
Maybe get a decent pick up from the buyout market as well. No idea is possible players for that tho.

You fix the bench. Get a pg that everyone keeps crying about. Defense and center still sketchy but you would have 8 actual good players( starting 5 + Gordon, Smart, Bey), maybe 9 if Bol is the real deal. You’d have Allen, Olynyk and Bey’s bird rights to re-sign, hopefully on decent deals too, Smart on a multi-year contract already. You’d have continuity for next year plus our draft pick for next year to add to the mix.

I don’t think you’d be able to get Smart for Nurkic…we’d need to have 1sts to offer.

Call me crazy, but I don't want to trade Nurk, even though our reliance on him is part of the problem. He has been great for us. IMO, his value to us is way higher than his market value.

I think it’s less about wanting to trade him and more about we don’t have contracts to make significant changes otherwise. Little and Allen have middling contracts, everyone else is on a minimum deal

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:08 pm

We are joking about Mike D, right? He's way too old to coach anymore. Unless he was just a fill-in to finish the season while we look for the right candidate. OK, I talked myself into it.

I do absolutely agree that this team should be way better on offense and needs some personality.

Has Ishbia started looking for Jones' replacement yet?

I actually didn't realize he was 72. But just depends on his health and energy.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:08 pm

We are joking about Mike D, right? He's way too old to coach anymore. Unless he was just a fill-in to finish the season while we look for the right candidate. OK, I talked myself into it.

I do absolutely agree that this team should be way better on offense and needs some personality.

Has Ishbia started looking for Jones' replacement yet?

Has Ishbia started looking for Jones' replacement yet?

Yep, Isaiah is waiting in the wings I'm sure....

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:16 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:08 pm

We are joking about Mike D, right? He's way too old to coach anymore. Unless he was just a fill-in to finish the season while we look for the right candidate. OK, I talked myself into it.

I do absolutely agree that this team should be way better on offense and needs some personality.

Has Ishbia started looking for Jones' replacement yet?

Has Ishbia started looking for Jones' replacement yet?

Yep, Isaiah is waiting in the wings I'm sure....

This was my thinking:

Adams is out for the year and Nurk would be a great fit for their team and a really great fit next to JJJ, who plays better next to a big, hence why they got Adams in the first.

While it is true they probably want more for Smart but Memphis is playing for next year, they already got a lottery pick coming their way and they should get decent haul for Kennard. While trading Smart for Nurk would be a bit of a lateral move right now, I think it’ll be a move that would benefit them more for next year. JJJ + Nurk would be a great combo and they could have Adams back up Nurk off the bench next year.

I will say, I’m not one of those who thinks getting pg is a huge priority, I was mostly looking for a player that doesn’t take shit and would light a fire under our asses. I think Marcus Smart fits that bill.

Just my two cents on our issues (perspective mostly unchanged):

1- Point Guard IS a problem.

I know opinions are split on this because Book has done an admirable job at this. HOWEVER, the reason this IS a problem is because having Book as our primary point guard initiating the offense not only wears book down over 4 quarters trying to carry the load as BOTH a playmaker and still trying to be an offensive weapon for spacing. This has been apparent by his reduced efficiency/PPP by the 4th quarter. Also, it takes away the threat of Booker as a lethal scoring weapon that creates spacing if the opposing team knows he's looking to first get vet min options going before he looks to establish his own rhythm. Book is best at 2 guard being an elite threat for spacing, he may be doing a good job at the point, but he's wired to score not facilitate! Hence the lazy passes/ egregious turnovers. Having a legit natural point guard would allow Book to go back to his natural position as an elite scoring/spacing threat which would also help with spacing. It would also allow our dollar store bench options to get setup in their basic roles more effectively if not having to focus on being a high level scoring option additionally.

2- We need more size/athleticism/attitude/moxy

Nurkic has been better than expected in that he's at least been relatively solid. HOWEVER, He's not scaring any opponents as a vertical spacing threat or as a rim (protector) deterrent. And Metu although athletic isn't a rim protector paint deterent either. WE NEED a long, physical, elite athletic high flying shotblocker/rim protector (at the 4) to compliment Nurkic's plodding style because he's just not laterally mobile or athletic enough to recover. Adding this type of athlete would help shore up our weak side recovery issues and more importantly energize our oft listless team when they get apathetic. There are actually a number of good- really good options we could add (without trade) from the unsigned free agent/G league pool just by virtue of signing them outright (after maybe waiving some of our end of bench non performers. So even without legit or desirable trade assets, we could if we choose to, actually address/ upgrade these frontcourt issues.

3- We're a soft and mentally fragile team

As much as everyone touts our culture as wonderful, the downside of the high character/ choir boy culture mentality that prioritizes nice guys/good guys that are intellectual and very likable over legit elite athletes with physicality and who play with aggression is obvious that we get bullied by teams with these attributes in that they all know that they only need to be physical/aggressive/ tough with us and we fold and crumble like a little kid being bullied on the playground. WE NEED some physical, edgy, aggressive smashmouth style enforcers that can shield or insulate us from opposing teams bullying us with ZERO RESISTANCE. As much as people hate the thought of the suggestions of players I've mentioned like Pat Bev, DeMarcus Cousins, Dwight Howard etc, Those are exactly the type of players that we desperately need to add that tenacity,toughness, edginess, reputation and vocal energizing accountability for our roster because unfortunately none of our big three (or the coach) are vocal leaders that'll hold our team accountable or give it back to teams that bully us.

4- We need to run/push the pace

We need to be pushing the pace constantly because in doing so, it's much easier to maintain an offensive flow/ rhythm. We should be utilizing a swarming zone defense, playing the passing lanes aggressively and looking to score before opposing defenses get set up. This would allow our lesser talented vet min role players to get into an offensive flow without overthinking or wasting too much time on possessions during the shotclock, and would also reduce the propensity to play iso ball out of desperation as the shot clock runs down. Now to optimize this, WE DO NEED to add/upgrade from certain underperforming vet min options to more superior or gifted athletes with high motors. This will help create more easy sustainable offensive creation possessions early on from our bench to help afford our big three greater rest throughout the 1st three quarters of the game so they don't continue struggling from exhaustion in crunch time end of game scenarios. If we can optimize better possessions for our bench players, then our starters just won't be as pressured to carry the load so much. And most importantly, playing fast would help us get to the line more and draw more fouls in fastbreak mismatches with our big three.

Players we SHOULD be looking at (outside of trades) from the unsigned pool/ G league/ overseas?

Understanding our current situation that we just don't have the assets for any optimal high end positional options, our next best realistic options are:

PG-
Rubio, RJ Nembhard, Raul Neto, Kendrick Nunn, Ashton Hagans, John Wall, Elf Payton or George Hill? ........Sorry
*** IF he's found not guilty, I would strongly pursue a Kevin Porter Jr signing on a "prove it" cheap unguaranteed deal to be the guard/6th man scoring option off our bench as opposed to Goodwin/Saban Lee. I get how people feel about him, but his talent and production is undeniable and he'd be significantly better than anyone we currently can field off the bench.

** All players mentioned below are currently unsigned or unrestricted free agents that'd require no assets to trade for, only a roster spot and signing them. So we could easily add them.

SG - (Perimeter/ passing lane/ wing defense)
Marcus Garrett, Zylan Cheatham, Shaq Harrison, PJ Dozier, Javonte Green, Chase Audige (budget TH Tucker).

SF - ( perimeter/ switch defense)
(Again, not top tier options, but better realistic options than we currently have for our bench)
Stanley Johnson, Moe Harkless, Noah Vonleh, Justice Winslow, Lance Stephenson, Feron Hunt, Justin Champagnie, Justin Lewis, Theo Pinson, Dexter Dennis, Vincent Valerio-Bodon.

PF 4/5 options??? - (We need size, athleticism, physicality, tenacity, shotblocking/ vertical gravity- dunking)
For toughness, physicality, tenacity, edginess:
Demarcus Cousins, Dwight Howard, Vernon Carey Jr Donta Hall??

For size, explosive athleticism, vertical gravity, shotblocking/ dunking, etc:
Kai Jones (elite length/explosiveness/ shotblocking/dunking/mobility), Donta Hall (overseas buyout), Royce Hamm Jr (overseas buyout), Kostas Antetekoupo (defense/rim protection switch defense mobility) but little to no offensive tools, Mohammed Gueye ( long, mobile, high IQ, athletic, bouncy two way versatile defender,etc), Makur Makur (basically a thicker yet very fluid, mobile version of bol bol with really good defensive awareness, fundamentals, recovery and offensive two way versatility, Wenyen Gabriel ( High end mobility/athleticism/ defensive versatility). Maybe Nate Roberts (dollar store Dwight howard, but a chiseled 6'11 250 lbs with a 7-6 wingspan and good mobility/athleticism.

** Basic shotblocking/strong rim/post defense, rim running and rebounding:
Nerlens Noel, Norvelle Pelle, Kylor Kelly, Amidah Brimah?

So there are legit decent options IF we're doing our due diligence and looking to improve within our means.