All Things Ayton

[Split T]

Ya the only thing they could do is add an early PO. Can’t front load a max deal.

I'd be all for Ayton signing a max today. I don’t want the full escalators, but I’d be willing to give him partial escalators like Booker got. Even though Booker was a better player than Ayton at the time of each signing.

I’m also cool just waiting till the offseason. We know he’s getting a max. By then we’ll know if he’s even eligible for the escalators. We can then decide how much we are willing to go above the max to keep him. I know some are worried we’re going to piss him off and he won’t want to come back, but I see that extremely unlikely if we’re offering him 150-175 million dollars. I’m not worried at all about the situation.

[Indy]

It saves money to pay Bridges now; it saves money to pay Ayton later.

It could actually cost more if he qualifies for, and demands, the supermax.

And as for saving money if we wait: another team might not be able to/be willing to risk giving him an offer sheet knowing we'll match, so we can't count on matching a "cheaper max" (RFA offer sheet). That is very dangerous anyway--at that point he may demand we let him leave, if we won't offer him the full max that we can give him. What's the point of staying with a team that's pissed you off if they aren't even giving you any more money than other teams are offering you?

The only way I see this even possibly resolving peaceably (if we don't sign him to an extension by tomorrow) is if we offer him as much or more than he's demanding right now, next summer.

What does this mean? He has no contract, so there is not criteria to qualify for a supermax. What am I missing here?

[Indy]

Ya the only thing they could do is add an early PO. Can’t front load a max deal.

I'd be all for Ayton signing a max today. I don’t want the full escalators, but I’d be willing to give him partial escalators like Booker got. Even though Booker was a better player than Ayton at the time of each signing.

I’m also cool just waiting till the offseason. We know he’s getting a max. By then we’ll know if he’s even eligible for the escalators. We can then decide how much we are willing to go above the max to keep him. I know some are worried we’re going to piss him off and he won’t want to come back, but I see that extremely unlikely if we’re offering him 150-175 million dollars. I’m not worried at all about the situation.

I guess I don't know the CBA at all. I thought the escalators are up to the team to put in the contract, not the player. Or are you saying that we would know which escalators they are asking for, and if he hit it already, then we will have a true known cost?

[Split T]

Ya the only thing they could do is add an early PO. Can’t front load a max deal.

I'd be all for Ayton signing a max today. I don’t want the full escalators, but I’d be willing to give him partial escalators like Booker got. Even though Booker was a better player than Ayton at the time of each signing.

I’m also cool just waiting till the offseason. We know he’s getting a max. By then we’ll know if he’s even eligible for the escalators. We can then decide how much we are willing to go above the max to keep him. I know some are worried we’re going to piss him off and he won’t want to come back, but I see that extremely unlikely if we’re offering him 150-175 million dollars. I’m not worried at all about the situation.

I guess I don't know the CBA at all. I thought the escalators are up to the team to put in the contract, not the player. Or are you saying that we would know which escalators they are asking for, and if he hit it already, then we will have a true known cost?

Ya just saying if we wait till the offseason, we’ll know if he’s made All-NBA and even eligible to get the 30% of the salary cap max. Without All-NBA he’s only eligible for 25% of the salary cap. Difference is like 172 million over 5 vs 206 million over 5.

I was looking at the extensions yesterday, Luka is already eligible and signed the 206 version. Trae, SGA, and MPJ signed the 172 version that they are eligible for at the moment, but all have wording in their contract that they’ll get 206 if they become eligible for it this season.

I still think this is the holdup. I’m sure we’ve offered Ayton the 172, just don’t want to give him the 206 if he makes All-NBA this year. We’d just have more info next year and even if he’s eligible for 206, doesn’t mean we have to give it to him.

[ShelC]

If we offered 172 and he balked, that's on him. As far as I understand it, another team can't offer more than 128 over 4yrs next summer and the teams with space are Orlando, SA, Detroit and maybe Memphis and OKC? Not sure I see any of those teams offering DA a max unless it's maybe Detroit. Then we can match, assuming there's no weird salary structure that hurts our cap situation. He can also not sign any deal next summer, play out the season as a RFA for $16mil and then become a UFA in the summer of 2023.

I don't know what we've offered. We could've offered 133m over 4 and said, "you're not getting more as a RFA so take it or leave it". We could've offered the 133 with escalators to get to that 170-186 number and he wants 200+. We just don't know.

[Indy]

OK, that is how I understand it Split. Thanks.

[Indy]

If we offered 172 and he balked, that's on him. As far as I understand it, another team can't offer more than 128 over 4yrs next summer and the teams with space are Orlando, SA, Detroit and maybe Memphis and OKC? Not sure I see any of those teams offering DA a max unless it's maybe Detroit. Then we can match, assuming there's no weird salary structure that hurts our cap situation. He can also not sign any deal next summer, play out the season as a RFA for $16mil and then become a UFA in the summer of 2023.

I don't know what we've offered. We could've offered 133m over 4 and said, "you're not getting more as a RFA so take it or leave it". We could've offered the 133 with escalators to get to that 170-186 number and he wants 200+. We just don't know.

Yeah I probably would have suggested the mid-point of RFA and our Max without escalators, for 4 years. And would have been willing to negotiate towards a 5 year deal with escalators but with a team option in year 5.

[ShelC]

[Indy]

So who thinks we are getting a deal done with Ayton before the deadline today at 3 AZ time?

[Split T]

I hope we do, just so we don’t have to hear about it all year, but I don’t think it’s happening. Just don’t think there is enough incentive for either side to get it done. Ayton knows he’s getting a max regardless, he wants the full escalators max. The Suns know Ayton is restricted and really under team control no matter what. The only small out Ayton has is to take the QO. Which is stupid because he’d probably be throwing away more money doing that than the drop from the 206 max to the 172 max. So that’s not happening.

[Indy]

Yeah, I see Ayton's agent holding out for all the escalators.

[Superbone]

Today's the day. At least we'll know one way or the other in approximately 5 hours.

[ShelC]

The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.

[Split T]

I thought it was 3/90 that Collins turned down? But your point still remains and I agree. Not signing him today isn’t all that bad of a situation.

[Indy]

[Split T]

Welp, RFA here we come

[Indy]

Interesting it says Sarver didn't offer it, not Jones...

[ShelC]

So that's that. Wonder what the offer was and how much say Jones had or didn't have.

[JeremyG]

I keep telling you all. Sarver won't even let Jones offer him a base max of $172.5M. He doesn't consider him to be a max player.

Utterly outrageous. I hope Bobby Marks still gives them an offseason grade of F. Because this is an absolute failure.

[JeremyG]

FUN FACT: Devin Booker is up for an extension in 20.5 months from now.

That's why it's so dangerous to not extend Ayton right now. Imagine Booker makes All-NBA this season. Then next summer, Robert Sarver will think, "Well I have to give Booker a supermax extension next summer, so I can't afford Ayton."

Don't say I didn't warn you.