Suns News: Week 16 (1/30 - 2/5)

[JeremyG]

Last 14 games for Mikal:

22/4/5 with 1.3 stl, .6 blk and 1.6 TO

He’s shooting 49/38/92 which is a .591 TS%

...and yet y'all attack me when I do that for Ayton.

[Split T]

Ayton’s box score stats are never really the issue. He “only” had 14/10 last night but I think most would agree it was one of his better games in awhile. A lot of what determines his value doesn’t show up in the box score.

[JeremyG]

I meant that the response is always, "BUT can he do it consistently, for more than a __-game stretch? For a whole season?"

[Mori Chu]

BTW, I was curious so I checked it. James Jones and Kyrie Irving were teammates on the Cavs. Here's their 2016-17 roster:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/te ... /2017.html

So Jones may have some insight into Kyrie and/or fondness for him and his bullshit.

I think like most things it comes down to cost/benefit. Would I trade Ayton and a bunch of picks for Kyrie? No way. Would I trade washed up ass CP3, bantha fodder, and maybe one pick? Yeah, I'd strongly consider that. Not sure why BKN should want to do that, unless they would think that CP3 is a more stable PG to have than Kyrie to make a run. But if they've paid even passing attention to his play this year, they should know that KD + CP3 + scrubs is a team that goes absolutely nowhere.

Or I'd be fine with a larger deal where we get both KD + Kyrie and give up CP3, Ayton, maybe CamJ, and picks. That would be a fun one, a real NBA blockbuster. Not sure why BKN would do that, though, to acquire old ass CP3 when they'd be giving up any hope of contending for years to come. He'd just be contract ballast for them at that point.

[JeremyG]

BTW, I was curious so I checked it. James Jones and Kyrie Irving were teammates on the Cavs. Here's their 2016-17 roster:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/te ... /2017.html

So Jones may have some insight into Kyrie and/or fondness for him and his bullshit.

I think like most things it comes down to cost/benefit. Would I trade Ayton and a bunch of picks for Kyrie? No way. Would I trade washed up ass CP3, bantha fodder, and maybe one pick? Yeah, I'd strongly consider that. Not sure why BKN should want to do that, unless they would think that CP3 is a more stable PG to have than Kyrie to make a run. But if they've paid even passing attention to his play this year, they should know that KD + CP3 + scrubs is a team that goes absolutely nowhere.

Then why would they trade Kyrie at all? If they really want to win a title they aren't getting equal value back for him from anyone. But if they don't want to lose him for nothing, then they might do CP3 + Crowder + 1st.

[Split T]

I meant that the response is always, "BUT can he do it consistently, for more than a __-game stretch? For a whole season?"

Well that has always been an issue with Ayton. Mikal hasn’t generally had a consistency issue. He hasn’t always consistently provided offense, but we weren’t asking him too. We’ve only been asking him to be a primary offensive weapon since Booker has been out…so 20ish games. He’s been pretty dang consistent(though the shooting took a little bit to get going).

[Split T]

BTW, I was curious so I checked it. James Jones and Kyrie Irving were teammates on the Cavs. Here's their 2016-17 roster:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/te ... /2017.html

So Jones may have some insight into Kyrie and/or fondness for him and his bullshit.

I think like most things it comes down to cost/benefit. Would I trade Ayton and a bunch of picks for Kyrie? No way. Would I trade washed up ass CP3, bantha fodder, and maybe one pick? Yeah, I'd strongly consider that. Not sure why BKN should want to do that, unless they would think that CP3 is a more stable PG to have than Kyrie to make a run. But if they've paid even passing attention to his play this year, they should know that KD + CP3 + scrubs is a team that goes absolutely nowhere.

Or I'd be fine with a larger deal where we get both KD + Kyrie and give up CP3, Ayton, maybe CamJ, and picks. That would be a fun one, a real NBA blockbuster. Not sure why BKN would do that, though, to acquire old ass CP3 when they'd be giving up any hope of contending for years to come. He'd just be contract ballast for them at that point.

CP3 has been pretty dang good lately, don’t think calling him washed is fair at all

[Split T]

I’ve kinda thought what might work would be something based around Ayton to Toronto, FVV to Brooklyn, Kyrie to Phoenix…assuming we don’t want to move CP3

[virtual9mm]

I’ve kinda thought what might work would be something based around Ayton to Toronto, FVV to Brooklyn, Kyrie to Phoenix…assuming we don’t want to move CP3

I think you're out of your mind if you want to trade Ayton so you can keep CP3. It might be a different matter had last year's second round never happened, but we've seen where CP3's leadership eventually gets you. It's time to let him go.

The Kyrie experiment, as insane as it sounds, might be the only way to get any value out of CP3 now.

[Split T]

I think moving CP3 for him makes a ton of sense…I just don’t see the team doing that

[virtual9mm]

I think moving CP3 for him makes a ton of sense…I just don’t see the team doing that

Ahh, ok. Let's see what happens.

[Split T]

You’d also need a plan to get a C to replace Ayton if you do move him

[Mori Chu]

I’ve kinda thought what might work would be something based around Ayton to Toronto, FVV to Brooklyn, Kyrie to Phoenix…assuming we don’t want to move CP3

I don't know why we would want both Kyrie and CP3 on the roster. That's a ton of salary tied up in the starting PG position. I think it makes more sense to ship out CP3 if you are going to take a chance on Kyrie. I wouldn't support a package centered around Ayton for Kyrie because of the glut at small guard positions and the lack of talent we'd be left with at the C position.

[Split T]

I’ve kinda thought what might work would be something based around Ayton to Toronto, FVV to Brooklyn, Kyrie to Phoenix…assuming we don’t want to move CP3

I don't know why we would want both Kyrie and CP3 on the roster. That's a ton of salary tied up in the starting PG position. I think it makes more sense to ship out CP3 if you are going to take a chance on Kyrie. I wouldn't support a package centered around Ayton for Kyrie because of the glut at small guard positions and the lack of talent we'd be left with at the C position.

All that salary is mostly expiring. I do agree you’d need a plan in place to replace Ayton though.

Also I do think moving CP3 for him is the easiest way, just doubt the suns willingness to move CP3

[JeremyG]

I meant that the response is always, "BUT can he do it consistently, for more than a __-game stretch? For a whole season?"

Well that has always been an issue with Ayton. Mikal hasn’t generally had a consistency issue. He hasn’t always consistently provided offense, but we weren’t asking him too. We’ve only been asking him to be a primary offensive weapon since Booker has been out…so 20ish games. He’s been pretty dang consistent(though the shooting took a little bit to get going).

You posted his last 14 games. But in the 17 games before that, he averaged 14.5 points on 36.1% FG. In the 10 games before the last 14, when Booker was out (starting Dec. 19), he averaged 13.1 points on 36.8% FG.

[JeremyG]

I’ve kinda thought what might work would be something based around Ayton to Toronto, FVV to Brooklyn, Kyrie to Phoenix…assuming we don’t want to move CP3

I don't know why we would want both Kyrie and CP3 on the roster. That's a ton of salary tied up in the starting PG position. I think it makes more sense to ship out CP3 if you are going to take a chance on Kyrie. I wouldn't support a package centered around Ayton for Kyrie because of the glut at small guard positions and the lack of talent we'd be left with at the C position.

All that salary is mostly expiring. I do agree you’d need a plan in place to replace Ayton though.

Also I do think moving CP3 for him is the easiest way, just doubt the suns willingness to move CP3

Don't forget that the guy ultimately in charge, who may want to make a big splash, has no attachment to CP3.

[Split T]

I meant that the response is always, "BUT can he do it consistently, for more than a __-game stretch? For a whole season?"

Well that has always been an issue with Ayton. Mikal hasn’t generally had a consistency issue. He hasn’t always consistently provided offense, but we weren’t asking him too. We’ve only been asking him to be a primary offensive weapon since Booker has been out…so 20ish games. He’s been pretty dang consistent(though the shooting took a little bit to get going).

You posted his last 14 games. But in the 17 games before that, he averaged 14.5 points on 36.1% FG. In the 10 games before the last 14, when Booker was out (starting Dec. 19), he averaged 13.1 points on 36.8% FG.

That’s why I posted the last 14 games…he took on a new responsibility and struggled at first, but now has a 14 game sample size of consistently producing. I think his early struggles are understandable.

I’d give Ayton the benefit of the doubt if he was taking on a new role as well.

[Superbone]

The war waging on in my head. You think Jae was hard to deal with? Meet Kyrie Irving. The second you trade for him expects $200 million this summer. And once you’ve paid him, then you have to figure pray you get a guy who wants to play and win—my bet is you’re getting The Nets and Boston version of Kyrie. You’re not getting Cavs’ Kyrie. If I’m JJ, I look to see if KD or Siakam are available, if not drum up the best deal I can for Jae.

Plus, I worry that this recent tear is a result of him being in the process of bargaining with the Nets and him playing for that next big contract. He seems like he can turn in on and off at will.

[Superbone]

Ayton’s box score stats are never really the issue. He “only” had 14/10 last night but I think most would agree it was one of his better games in awhile. A lot of what determines his value doesn’t show up in the box score.

I think that's right. As a pure offensive player, he has relatively impressive stats but they don't show his withering defense at the rim or how many baskets are scored against us on a pick and roll, or how many offensive rebounds and put backs the opposing team gets when he's on the floor. Basically, they don't show his defensive deficiencies and lack of aggression other than the lack of blocked shots and free throws.

[bajanguy008]

Don't know if we really interested or not but
Him and the Nets might finally be at their breaking point



Avging 33ppg in his last 8 and Nets last game was Wednesday so fairly certain he's physically fine