TRADE: Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Allen/Little/Johnson

[JeremyG]

It’s just a made up fiction. He’s always been one of our best clutch players. With exceptions to that. Like against Portland last year—and yet they still coveted him.

[Superbone]

I’m weary of putting Allen on the ball. I seem to recall him being mistake prone when asked to facilitate offense. I think he’s pretty much limited to close out attacks off of the dribble.

He ended up with the ball on the last possession of Milwaukee’s season and didn’t look good. I agree, I wouldn’t put him on ball. I’d rather Gordon run 2nd unit offense.

Yeah, no. We don't want him running the show. Just spot up and play defense and move the ball.

[Split T]

Can we please not turn this into an Ayton thread? Is that too much to ask? Keep the Ayton stuff in his thread.

[Drewsprocket]

I’m weary of putting Allen on the ball. I seem to recall him being mistake prone when asked to facilitate offense. I think he’s pretty much limited to close out attacks off of the dribble.

He ended up with the ball on the last possession of Milwaukee’s season and didn’t look good. I agree, I wouldn’t put him on ball. I’d rather Gordon run 2nd unit offense.

Yeah, no. We don't want him running the show. Just spot up and play defense and move the ball.

I think Beal will have carte blanche running the second unit alongside shooters (Yuta, Gordon, Allen/Little) and Eubanks.

[Superbone]

Our own Eddie Johnson sums up the trade very well. I really appreciate his perspective.

[SunsSince92]

Can we please not turn this into an Ayton thread? Is that too much to ask? Keep the Ayton stuff in his thread.

Or better yet, stop talking about him at all! He's no longer a Suns player and we've wasted enough time and energy scrutinising his strengths and weaknesses. Surely it's time we moved on.

[ShelC]

Can we please not turn this into an Ayton thread? Is that too much to ask? Keep the Ayton stuff in his thread.

Or better yet, stop talking about him at all! He's no longer a Suns player and we've wasted enough time and energy scrutinising his strengths and weaknesses. Surely it's time we moved on.

It is time to move on. And don't call us Shirley.

[Kryptonic]

Can we please not turn this into an Ayton thread? Is that too much to ask? Keep the Ayton stuff in his thread.

Or better yet, stop talking about him at all! He's no longer a Suns player and we've wasted enough time and energy scrutinising his strengths and weaknesses. Surely it's time we moved on.

It is time to move on. And don't call us Shirley.

Roger, roger... We have clearance, clarence!

[Superbone]

Can we please not turn this into an Ayton thread? Is that too much to ask? Keep the Ayton stuff in his thread.

Or better yet, stop talking about him at all! He's no longer a Suns player and we've wasted enough time and energy scrutinising his strengths and weaknesses. Surely it's time we moved on.

It is time to move on. And don't call us Shirley.

Roger, roger... We have clearance, clarence!

What's our vector, Victor?

[Mori Chu]

I just don't see how this deal makes us better. I think Nurkic is really unimpressive. He's slow, plodding, I don't think he's more "aggressive" than Ayton (dunk vs layup, etc.), he won't be able to switch or defend the perimeter, he won't be able to run the break. He gets hurt a lot. He makes less money, and that seems to be the single thing he gives us over Ayton.

I just wish everybody had bit their tongue and been willing to try to make this team work. Ayton is frustrating but IMO he's way better than Nurkic, not even close. If you want a title, I don't know why you trade your starting center for somebody worse who a lottery team can't wait to get rid of, who's played in half his games for the past several years. I feel like we now have a Big 3 and a bunch of nobodies behind them.

[TOO]

Mori, your post should tell you all you need to know about how they felt about Ayton. Nobody wanted him on the roster. That cannot be undersold.

[Cap]

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/9/27/ ... zers-ayton

Phoenix Suns grade: D

The Suns are also all-in on a championship this season after trading for Kevin Durant midway through last season and adding Bradley Beal over the summer. Phoenix clearly didn’t think Ayton would be a focal point of the offense with so much firepower around him, and sought to improve their depth in place of their starting center.

Phoenix had the right idea, but it feels like they didn’t add the right pieces in this trade.

Nurkic faces similar problems to Ayton on offense: he doesn’t play with as much force as he should. Defensively, Nurkic is a big downgrade in the middle, and he’s also a much greater injury risk. Grayson Allen is a solid shooter on the wing, but Phoenix already had so many off-guards around his size. Nassir Little is a nice flier on a three-and-D wing, and Keon Johnson is an elite athlete who hasn’t been able to find his footing in the NBA yet.

The Suns still have a major problem at center. They need a big man who can hit the glass, protect the rim, and share the ball offensively as a passing hub. I’m skeptical Nurkic can still be that. Phoenix’s inclusion in this deal is odd to me, but we know the Suns will always make another move if they don’t like their mix at the trade deadline.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/9/28/ ... title-odds

Loser: Phoenix Suns

The Suns have a loaded roster and could still win the 2024 NBA championship. I personally believe they moved further away from the title goals with their inclusion in this trade for a couple reasons:

1. Ayton had plenty of issues as a player, but he offered way more upside than Nurkic in the middle. Perhaps Frank Vogel could have repaired a relationship frayed by Monty Williams in recent years. Even if Phoenix was determined to trade him, I think they could have gotten a better return than an uninspiring, older center and a few questionable role players.

2. Phoenix getting into this trade made one of its biggest rivals in the Bucks even stronger. Would Portland have sent Lillard to Milwaukee if they couldn’t get Ayton? I’m not so sure. Now Milwaukee is ahead of Phoenix in the championship pecking order in my opinion, and it was all made possible by the Suns getting in this trade to ditch Ayton.

3. Jrue Holiday is going to be traded to a contender soon. It’s possible the Warriors trade Chris Paul, Jonathan Kuminga, and a pick for him. It’s possible another Western Conference team pulls off a similar deal. Either way, with Holiday now on the trade market, there’s going to be another contender that adds a great piece to go up against the Suns.

It’s totally possible this take will blow up in my face, and Devin Booker and Kevin Durant will lead the Suns to their first championship in franchise history. For now, though, I’m skeptical moving Ayton in the Dame trade gets Phoenix closer to a title.

https://burncitysports.com/2023/09/27/w ... -and-suns/

Suns Grade: C-

The Phoenix Suns traded away Deandre Ayton and their second round pick from this years’ draft Toumani Camara. The biggest piece they got in return was Jusuf Nurkic. The center averaged 13.3 points and 9.1 rebounds per game last season. He has also dealt with injuries over the last few seasons. He played in 145 out of a possible 246 games over the last three years. Ayton played in 194 games over that same span. Ayton has been more durable and more productive than Nurkic. Nurkic also isn’t the defensive player that he once was. He has averaged less than one block per game over the last two seasons.

The other veteran piece they got back in this deal is Grayson Allen. Allen is a “3 and D” type player that can fit in well along side Beal, Booker, and Durant. Last season he averaged 10.4 points per game while shooting 44% from the floor and just under 40% from three.

The other two players the Suns got back are young and unproven. Nassir Little and Keon Johnson may not be a big part of the rotation. It’s hard to believe that this is the best deal the Suns could of gotten for Deandre Ayton.

[Split T]

I just don't see how this deal makes us better. I think Nurkic is really unimpressive. He's slow, plodding, I don't think he's more "aggressive" than Ayton (dunk vs layup, etc.), he won't be able to switch or defend the perimeter, he won't be able to run the break. He gets hurt a lot. He makes less money, and that seems to be the single thing he gives us over Ayton.

I just wish everybody had bit their tongue and been willing to try to make this team work. Ayton is frustrating but IMO he's way better than Nurkic, not even close. If you want a title, I don't know why you trade your starting center for somebody worse who a lottery team can't wait to get rid of, who's played in half his games for the past several years. I feel like we now have a Big 3 and a bunch of nobodies behind them.

Read this



Or at least watch this and try to envision Ayton doing this



Nurkic is much better as a pick n pop big or as a short roll playmaker. Think of a supersized Saric.

Fun fact, the Booker/Landale, Booker/Saric, and Booker/Kaminsky lineups generally had better net ratings than the Booker/Ayton ones.

Remember when we were talking Ayton for Sabonis? I don’t think it was the suns saying no. We’ve known having a more skilled big helps the offense more than simply a finisher at the rim.

[TOO]

Eddie has always been a bit of a homer, but I think he's pretty spot on there. Mostly because he agrees with me lol. Suns gonna send shooter after shooter at teams next year.

[pickle]

I think we got less talented but better as a team with this trade thanks to the chemistry boost.

I am actually a bit worried about our center depth now. Wish we had another big with legit size.

I don’t relish the thought of rooting for Allen but I guess I’m willing to give it a chance. I’d like to believe that he’s not actually dirty per se but just competitive and his brain short circuits at times, but he certainly hasn’t won himself a ton of fans the last few years. Also think he’s a moderate liability on the defensive end and not an on ball guy as others have said. Any interest in Clarkson or Brogdon if we indeed move him or other pieces?

Really quite intrigued by Little. Not thrilled losing Camara. Wish we’d at least got a couple of seconds in the deal to feel like we got all the value we could for DA.

[ShelC]

Surface level reporting from SBNation. Nurk at his worst is still a double double big and plays with more force than DA because DA played with no force. And you can only talk about upside for so long. DA is 25 with 6 years in the league. Vogel wasn't unlocking anything and it doesn't take an insider to know there were definitely issues with DA that went beyond Monty. Everyone was fed up with his antics. James Jones wants obsessive basketball players like CP, Book, KD, Beal, Mikal, CamJ. DA was never that, as much as everyone tried to drag him up to that level. You need organizational standards to be successful and DA didn't fit. And maybe Ishbia didn't like some things going on around DA this offseason too. Either way, he had worn out his welcome and holding onto him would've just felt like massive elephant in the room.

Also consider we would've ended up selling lower if DA sulked about being the 4th option this year. The Suns have had DA on the block for 2 years and talked to teams before the draft to gauge his value. Maybe there were what we would consider better deals out there (Capela?) but the Suns made their decision. I just don't think there was a lot of interest and Jones didn't want to wait until midseason to make another move.

Nurk fits his role and we don't need a $30mil wannabe All-Star center with the Big 3 we have. We need roleplayers who will be happy doing what they do best. That goes beyond talent. Games aren't won on paper or with upside.

[Uncle_Gene]

Bottomline, the Suns downgraded at center. Ayton is better right now. But what the Suns did was add future flexibility and depth with this trade.

Ayton is making over $30 million a season and was set to be the 4th best player on the team. I'll miss him, but I guess he had to go.

[JeremyG]

Or at least watch this and try to envision Ayton doing this

I don’t have to try to envision Ayton doing that, because he’s done similar plays already in the past.

Regardless, I highly doubt we had any need to “improve” our offense.

[JeremyG]

Nurk at his worst is still a double double big

Except for that pesky little fact that he’s only been a double-double big in 3 of his 9 seasons (including an 8-game season for one of those 3!).

[ShelC]

Nurk at his worst is still a double double big

Except for that pesky little fact that he’s only been a double-double big in 3 of his 9 seasons (including an 8-game season for one of those 3!).

I know you're a DA guy but come on. He had 3 seasons of 9 rebounds once he got to Portland and started. His first 3 years he was splitting time with Jokic in Denver. DA's had seasons of 10.3, 10.2 and 10 rebounds. Stop splitting hairs. In fact, his per 36 numbers are right in line with DAs, and in some cases (rebounds) better.