NBA Draft Prospects Discussion

[Ring_Wanted]

Quick question:

Who do people want to completely avoid at 4 and 13? (who are currently being discussed in that range)

Brown for me is someone who I cannot get excited about at #4

Brown and Dunn a #4. Potel and Baldwin at #13.

Why no Dunn? Player reasons or team reasons?

[Mori Chu]

I hope we avoid anybody who's a chucker or a prima donna. That seems to eliminate Dunn to me.

[TOO]

Unless one of Ingram or Simmons falls to 4, I'm not gonna be excited by anyone we select there. I'd love to trade it.

[JCSunsfan]

OK. I am softening on Okafor. If Watson thinks he can coach him to play D, I would be ok with him. I think his shot will develop and his post and midrange game is excellent. He has the rebounding skills. If we could do #4, #28, and #34. Or #13 and Knight, I would do it. I would consider #4 and Knight, but I would want a pick back (Laker?).

[Split T]

I think sixers would trade Okafor straight up for #4. They'd be guaranteed either Murray, Dunn or Hield, all better fits than Okafor.

[Mori Chu]

How bad is Okafor's defense? Do you think he can become a decent 2-way player? Also, isn't he kind of a ballhog? Do you guys think he can become a player who knows when to try to score and when to pass?

[OE32]

I don't like Okafor. Would not trade for him. If Boston wants Okafor without giving up the #3, arrange a deal to take the Nets picks off their hands.

Who do I not want at #4? ANYONE. We should trade the pick. I also don't want an "established star". I proposed something ridiculous, but malleable, that is roughly along the lines of what I would want to do: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtop ... &t=1449105

[In2ition]

I'm not feeling this trade.

[EDC]

Why not cut and paste?

[OE32]

Why not cut and paste?

Sure:

BOS in: Okafor, McLemore, #8
BOS out: Jerebko, Bradley, #16, #45, BKN '17, BKN '18

Word is that Boston doesn't want to give up the #3 to get Okafor. So they trade their surplus of picks, plus Bradley and Jerebko, for Okafor, and they move up in the draft, adding what they hope to be three major pieces (Okafor, #3, #8) in one offseason. As valuable as the BKN picks are, they have only speculative value, as BKN has no incentive to tank. Precisely the sort of consolidation they’ve been rumored to want. They still have the Memphis pick in their arsenal. McLemore is the sort of redemption project they may be keen to attempt.

PHI in: Collison, Butler, #4
PHI out: Okafor

Essentially Okafor for the #4. They add Collison to replace Ish Smith. Butler makes the salaries work.

ORL in: Cauley-Stein (or Len, #28)
ORL out: #11

Cauley-Stein gives the Magic precisely the rim protection they’ve lacked at the center position, adding to their core. Poeltl could be available at #11, but Cauley-Stein is more of a known quantity. This frees the Magic to trade Vucevic without having to worry about filling the C slot; alternatively, they could run Cauley-Stein next to Vucevic, given his positional flexibility. An alternative is to send Cauley-Stein to Phoenix, with Len and the #28 going to the Magic, as Len routinely kills the Magic. The question there is whether the Magic value Len’s rebounding to Cauley-Stein’s rim protection and positional versatility, and vice versa for the Suns. In terms of value, the primary difference is that Len is set to be RFA in a year, while Cauley-Stein has three years left on his rookie deal.

SAC in: Knight, Chandler, Tucker, Goodwin, #16, #34, #45
SAC out: Cauley-Stein, Collison, Koufus, Bellineli, McLemore, Butler, #8

Sacramento sends Cauley-Stein and moves eight spots back in the first in order to grab (1) a veteran C to pair with Cousins and bring some stability to the locker room, (2) a young starting SG/PG who can spread the floor, and (3) a tough SF who can help them on the defensive end. They send out some bad contracts, along with the stable Collison, for three rotation players. Goodwin has untapped potential and nowhere to go in Phoenix. The Kings are set up for a playoff run.

PHX in: Jerebko, Bradley, Koufus, Bellineli, #11, BKN '17, BKN '18, (Cauley-Stein)
PHX out: Knight, Chandler, Tucker, Goodwin, #4, #34, (Len, #28)

Phoenix exchanges three starters to plug holes on defense with Jerebko and Bradley, and takes back a couple bad contracts in Koufus and Bellineli. They move from the top of the lottery to the back of the lottery. They balance out their roster and add the BKN picks to go into full rebuild. If they move Len and #28 to Orlando and take Cauley-Stein, they’re free to make a run at Dwight Howard in free agency.

Even if all parties were open to it, I see us as being the team that doesn't pull the trigger. I think exchanging Knight for Bradley, and Tucker for Jerebko, makes us a better team. Moving Chandler for Koufus is close to a wash, but unlike Chandler, you have the option of burying Koufus on the bench. Bellineli is dead weight. Essentially, I'm trying to balance out the roster and push the #4 forward into '17 and '18.

Simply, I'm not happy with the players who are likely to be available at #4. We should trade it. But we are rebuilding. We should embrace that by facilitating Okafor to Boston and making whatever moves are necessary to get those Brooklyn picks instead. The #4 is more valuable than either, less valuable than both.

The great irony about this ridiculous hypo is that I think it would make us a better team next season, but we would not likely pull the trigger because we are trying to make the playoffs. I think it's one of those things that is worse on paper but better in practice. We have a mess of a roster, but we can un-mess it. #4 is just an awful position for us. Just awful. If we don't make a trade or two on draft night, I will be disappointed.

[Ring_Wanted]

Would rather have Okafor. I posted this in another thread, but Booker-Okafor would be a very nice core. Your mix of role players from Boston and Sacto doesn't really seduce me. Okafor is not perfect but has the tools to become a game changer. If available, it's PHX who should push for him. #4 is a poor place to be but I am not feeling the gamble on BRY's next couple of seasons.

Sacto is getting raped. WCS and the #8 are the two best assets involved in their side of the trade and they are giving them up for a shuffling in role players. Win now oriented yet highly questionable winning.

Orlando does either variation but I think they should be left out. Their pick is needed to balance out things but WCS or Len going there just complicates it too much and in this draft it means stealing value from others.

Boston shouldn't have to part ways with Bradley after giving up both BRY's picks. Save the #8, they are getting the supposed big price in Okafor. McLemore is approaching bust status, I'd remove him if he is not needed for salary purposes, or I'd send him to PHI.

[Superbone]

https://twitter.com/InsiderSuns/status/736383236079685633

[Superbone]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/736355010057904128

[Split T]

I was just about to say I was leaning towards taking Chriss. I liked him at #13 for awhile but he moved to the 8-10 range. Now it looks like he's climbing further. Could be an Amare like player in the NBA. Special athlete with a good jump shot. Not sure what he's like defensively, other than he can protect the rim a bit.

[Superbone]

I think the concerns about him are defense and rebounding.

[OE32]

I think the concerns about him are defense and rebounding.

And those are legit concerns.

I've been trying to talk myself into liking Chriss or Ellenson. Maybe the FO is as well.

[OE32]

Would rather have Okafor. I posted this in another thread, but Booker-Okafor would be a very nice core. Your mix of role players from Boston and Sacto doesn't really seduce me. Okafor is not perfect but has the tools to become a game changer. If available, it's PHX who should push for him. #4 is a poor place to be but I am not feeling the gamble on BRY's next couple of seasons.

Sacto is getting raped. WCS and the #8 are the two best assets involved in their side of the trade and they are giving them up for a shuffling in role players. Win now oriented yet highly questionable winning.

Orlando does either variation but I think they should be left out. Their pick is needed to balance out things but WCS or Len going there just complicates it too much and in this draft it means stealing value from others.

Boston shouldn't have to part ways with Bradley after giving up both BRY's picks. Save the #8, they are getting the supposed big price in Okafor. McLemore is approaching bust status, I'd remove him if he is not needed for salary purposes, or I'd send him to PHI.

The simple thing to do is #4 to PHI, Okafor to BOS, BKN picks to PHX. I just don't believe that management is willing to be that patient. Hell, I don't know if I am either. But it would be smart.

Hate Okafor's game. I don't think he has the ability to move his feet on defense. I think he becomes the focal point of any team's attack strategy in each and every playoff game he ever plays. I think Warren can be just as efficient at creating his own offense and don't see the necessity of having all three of Booker, Warren and Okafor. I think Len's rebounding and mobility are a better fit.

You could be right about leaving ORL out of it. If Sacto keeps Cauley-Stein, maybe that balances things out. I really want Bradley to take Knight's spot, and Jerebko to play the 4, hence the hoops I jump through. And if they take a guard at 3, they don't need Bradley.

[Hermen]

How are brooklyn's picks worth the same as #4?

[carey]

How are brooklyn's picks worth the same as #4?

They are both unprotected so the concept is that they will be high picks in much better drafts. This is the quintessential version of "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" though.

I'm ok with Okafor for #4 but if Knight is attached I want Saric back in the deal. I also wouldn't mind attaching Len somehow given that if we acquire Okafor hen Len's days are numbered. He's a C and anyone suggesting we play him at PF in some weird line-up with Len or Chandler on the floor is going to be disappointed. Maybe a 2nd deal where Len goes somewhere else and brings back a '17 pick or a starting PF.

[Hermen]

How are brooklyn's picks worth the same as #4?

They are both unprotected so the concept is that they will be high picks in much better drafts. This is the quintessential version of "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" though.

Yes I wasn't very clear. I find it hard to believe that #4 pick this year would be worth as much as those Brooklyn picks, especially since this years draft is apparently not considered that great (I'm saying this based on what I heard here, no research of my own). I would guess those picks have more upside than what's available at 4. Especially both together.