All Things Ayton

[Split T]

Another reason to have gotten it done is that I think Ayton at the max is still a very tradeable contract.

But he's Brook Lopez, apparently. And he's not consistent enough during the regular season. And extremely efficient and talented 7ft players that don't require ball dominance to impact the game grow on trees, apparently.

They kinda do actually. Remember Richaun Holmes? Athletic 7 footers can hang around for years in the nba on that fact alone. Of course Ayton is on the higher end of these guys, but nothing he’s doing is earth shattering. Rudy Gobert is also an incredibly efficient 7ft that doesn’t require ball dominance. So was Tyson Chandler. DeAndre Jordan. Clint Capela. I want more if I’m paying 200 million dollars

He's already shown way more offensive skill than those players. Why punish him for making him sacrifice his scoring/touches for Monty's system?

Also, show me Tyson Chandler's 24-point quarter.

THIS. People don't seem to understand the amount of sacrifice Ayton makes. It's no wonder he has lapses. He goes long stretches without a touch. He's the 4th option on most plays. He's shown he can dominate if he's one of the regular 2 or 3 options on offense but Monty's system asks him to sacrifice. "See, he's putting up middle of the road points her game. He's replaceable. He's Richaun Holmes". GTFO with that nonsense.

When has he ever shown he can dominate offensively? I’ve literally never seen that from him outside of stand alone plays here and there.

[JeremyG]

I keep thinking about this too. If Ayton expressed frustration in how he was utilized in the postseason and isn’t going to accept that role again…then how exactly can the Suns commit a max deal to him not even knowing what role he’s going to play?

Wouldn't you want your max player to have a bigger offensive role?

[Split T]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

WE STILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHETHER AYTON STAYS ON THE TEAM

[Split T]

I keep thinking about this too. If Ayton expressed frustration in how he was utilized in the postseason and isn’t going to accept that role again…then how exactly can the Suns commit a max deal to him not even knowing what role he’s going to play?

Wouldn't you want your max player to have a bigger offensive role?

Of course, which is why I’m not comfortable with him being a max guy yet. I want him to show he can actually do it.

[ShelC]

I think if DA actually played like AD or Giannis or Shaq or KG or Ewing or Duncan, we wouldn't be asking him to sacrifice his offensive game.

[JeremyG]

We also keep seeing his "peers" being referenced - his peers being the other top 5 picks Luke and Trae, not the lower lotto picks SGA and MPJ. It's relates accordingly in terms of salary. That's the "respect" he's looking for. He's not worth $207 tho. Not by a long shot. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.

What are you talking about? All 4 of those peers got the potential $207M.

[AmareIsGod]

But he's Brook Lopez, apparently. And he's not consistent enough during the regular season. And extremely efficient and talented 7ft players that don't require ball dominance to impact the game grow on trees, apparently.

They kinda do actually. Remember Richaun Holmes? Athletic 7 footers can hang around for years in the nba on that fact alone. Of course Ayton is on the higher end of these guys, but nothing he’s doing is earth shattering. Rudy Gobert is also an incredibly efficient 7ft that doesn’t require ball dominance. So was Tyson Chandler. DeAndre Jordan. Clint Capela. I want more if I’m paying 200 million dollars

He's already shown way more offensive skill than those players. Why punish him for making him sacrifice his scoring/touches for Monty's system?

Also, show me Tyson Chandler's 24-point quarter.

THIS. People don't seem to understand the amount of sacrifice Ayton makes. It's no wonder he has lapses. He goes long stretches without a touch. He's the 4th option on most plays. He's shown he can dominate if he's one of the regular 2 or 3 options on offense but Monty's system asks him to sacrifice. "See, he's putting up middle of the road points her game. He's replaceable. He's Richaun Holmes". GTFO with that nonsense.

When has he ever shown he can dominate offensively? I’ve literally never seen that from him outside of stand alone plays here and there.

WTF dude. Are you kidding me? Are you just dense for the sake of standing firm on your take? He dropped 24 points in the 2nd quarter against the Nuggets.



He had 24 including the game winner in the postseason last year.



I'm not going to go out and find highlights of every game he had a great offensive performance. It's no longer worth debating with you about it. You see Ayton one way, as an easily replaceable piece. I get it. Let's both stop going back and forth with each other about it. Waste of my time. Easy to replace 7ft player. GTFO with that nonsense.

[AmareIsGod]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

WE STILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHETHER AYTON STAYS ON THE TEAM

But he's CLEARLY unhappy. I guess you want a disinterested, unhappy young player in the locker room that's going to be asked about it all season long as a distraction. Because that doesn't mean shit. WE HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER HIM!

[Indy]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

Everyone took less money to play here, including Book. Why shouldn't Ayton?

[Indy]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

WE STILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHETHER AYTON STAYS ON THE TEAM

But he's CLEARLY unhappy. I guess you want a disinterested, unhappy young player in the locker room that's going to be asked about it all season long as a distraction. Because that doesn't mean shit. WE HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER HIM!

Maybe you missed the first 3 years of his career.

[Mori Chu]

WE STILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHETHER AYTON STAYS ON THE TEAM

That is not really true. First of all, if he decides to go pursue RFA offers, the other teams can structure those deals to be unappealing or difficult for us. For example, they can have a shorter deal after which Ayton ditches us. Or in the extreme case, Ayton can sign a QO just to spite us and leave after a year. Or he can demand a trade and either sit out or play at less than 100% effort until we move him. He can harm the locker room and publicly demand a trade or any number of other things. Plus, Jones and Saver have at various points said that they won't force a guy to be here if he doesn't want to be here, so if Ayton signs an RFA deal and asks us not to match, one would think they would honor his request.

We are not in absolute control over Ayton's NBA future. Players have a lot of soft power in today's NBA. If he doesn't want to play here, he'll be gone within a season or so.

[Indy]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

WE STILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHETHER AYTON STAYS ON THE TEAM

But he's CLEARLY unhappy. I guess you want a disinterested, unhappy young player in the locker room that's going to be asked about it all season long as a distraction. Because that doesn't mean shit. WE HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER HIM!

Right. Every change he gets he talks about how he can do more, but we don't let him. He was unhappy in his role in the playoffs, but that is exactly what we need him to be...

[Superbone]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

Everyone took less money to play here, including Book. Why shouldn't Ayton?

Looks like Ayton was right to be worried about his next contract before he had played a single NBA game. Dude can see the future!

[ShelC]

Everything's going to work out. This will all go away once the games start, we'll work out a deal next offseason and it'll be done. Just like the Hawks and John Collins.

[JeremyG]

I keep thinking about this too. If Ayton expressed frustration in how he was utilized in the postseason and isn’t going to accept that role again…then how exactly can the Suns commit a max deal to him not even knowing what role he’s going to play?

Wouldn't you want your max player to have a bigger offensive role?

Of course, which is why I’m not comfortable with him being a max guy yet. I want him to show he can actually do it.

Well he's never going to b able to show it, if he's playing under the limited role Monty is giving him.

[JeremyG]

The simplest way to look at this is, we had a team that got to the Finals and was 2 games away from a title. We could have locked that team up and kept them together for the next 3-4 years to make runs at titles together, and ALL WE HAD TO DO was simply re-sign our existing talent to fair market value. But instead, we have chosen to fuck around and lowball a key player in the interest of saving Robert Sarver some money.

I can't believe we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot like this. It'd be one thing if we were a young team that hadn't won anything; we'd be asking ourselves whether Ayton could perform at a higher level, whether this core is capable of contending. But WE JUST SAW IT. Exactly how many dollars you think Ayton deserves pales in comparison to the indisputable fact that we just saw that this team is capable of getting all the way to the finish line for a title. Why wouldn't you keep that together? Why risk fouling it all up by doing something like this?

WE STILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHETHER AYTON STAYS ON THE TEAM

In theory only. Not in reality. If he wants out, he won't be staying on the team.

[Split T]

They kinda do actually. Remember Richaun Holmes? Athletic 7 footers can hang around for years in the nba on that fact alone. Of course Ayton is on the higher end of these guys, but nothing he’s doing is earth shattering. Rudy Gobert is also an incredibly efficient 7ft that doesn’t require ball dominance. So was Tyson Chandler. DeAndre Jordan. Clint Capela. I want more if I’m paying 200 million dollars

He's already shown way more offensive skill than those players. Why punish him for making him sacrifice his scoring/touches for Monty's system?

Also, show me Tyson Chandler's 24-point quarter.

THIS. People don't seem to understand the amount of sacrifice Ayton makes. It's no wonder he has lapses. He goes long stretches without a touch. He's the 4th option on most plays. He's shown he can dominate if he's one of the regular 2 or 3 options on offense but Monty's system asks him to sacrifice. "See, he's putting up middle of the road points her game. He's replaceable. He's Richaun Holmes". GTFO with that nonsense.

When has he ever shown he can dominate offensively? I’ve literally never seen that from him outside of stand alone plays here and there.

WTF dude. Are you kidding me? Are you just dense for the sake of standing firm on your take? He dropped 24 points in the 2nd quarter against the Nuggets.



He had 24 including the game winner in the postseason last year.



I'm not going to go out and find highlights of every game he had a great offensive performance. It's no longer worth debating with you about it. You see Ayton one way, as an easily replaceable piece. I get it. Let's both stop going back and forth with each other about it. Waste of my time. Easy to replace 7ft player. GTFO with that nonsense.

I sat courtside at that 24 point 2nd Q performance. I’m well aware it happened. There is 1 play in that whole video that isn’t just a put back or a catch and finish. Everything he did in that video is still perfectly available to him in our current offense.

[AmareIsGod]

I keep thinking about this too. If Ayton expressed frustration in how he was utilized in the postseason and isn’t going to accept that role again…then how exactly can the Suns commit a max deal to him not even knowing what role he’s going to play?

Wouldn't you want your max player to have a bigger offensive role?

Of course, which is why I’m not comfortable with him being a max guy yet. I want him to show he can actually do it.

Well he's never going to b able to show it, if he's playing under the limited role Monty is giving him.

To be fair, while I think I align with most of what you've been saying thus far, it's a necessary sacrifice with this roster for success. It got us to the Finals so I can't fault it too much, though I'd definitely like to see them involve him much more.

[Split T]

I keep thinking about this too. If Ayton expressed frustration in how he was utilized in the postseason and isn’t going to accept that role again…then how exactly can the Suns commit a max deal to him not even knowing what role he’s going to play?

Wouldn't you want your max player to have a bigger offensive role?

Of course, which is why I’m not comfortable with him being a max guy yet. I want him to show he can actually do it.

Well he's never going to b able to show it, if he's playing under the limited role Monty is giving him.

I don’t believe that at all. Ayton constantly has opportunities to attack and doesn’t. How many times do we scream for Ayton to just dribble the ball towards the hoop? How many times did he stand there uncovered, with his dribble still available, looking for someone to pass the ball to?

[Superbone]

Everything's going to work out. This will all go away once the games start, we'll work out a deal next offseason and it'll be done. Just like the Hawks and John Collins.

I hope this is the case. He can't stay mad for an entire year, can he? Let's see where his maturity is at.