Phx-Suns.Net

Nodack wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:28 am

Which is good but...

I am getting pretty excited about having a complete team for once. It may not be a great contending team but, at least we have a real PG and a real PF. We can’t help but to be better right?

probably. things would have to go historically bad for us to be worse than last year.

We’ll definitely be easier to watch. How that translates in W-L we’ll see

Cherry picking a bit but J Kidd's first two years per 36 stats in NJ when they went to the finals vs Rubio's last two years in Utah (removing the noise but most other stats are very similar. Kidd had more steals - 2.15 vs 1.80, and less fouls - 1.55 vs 3.35, but Rubio had more FTA's 3.60 vs 3.25).

In summary, Rubio's shooting % across the board was better but Kidd had 2 more assists, 1.5 more rebounds, less fouls and no doubt played better D:


Kidd
Season FG%--------3P%---------2P%--------FT%-----TRB----AST----PTS
2001-02 0.391 ----0.321 ----0.424 ----0.814 -----7.0 ----9.5 ----14.2
2002-03 0.414 ----0.341 ----0.445 ----0.841 -----6.1 ----8.6 ----18.0

Average: 0.403% -0.331% -0.435% -0.828% --6.6 ----9.1 ----16.1

TS% = 0.497%

Rubio
Season FG%--------3P%---------2P%--------FT%-----TRB----AST----PTS
2017-18 0.418 ----0.352 ----0.451 ----0.866 -----5.6 ----6.5 ----16.1
2018-19 0.404 ----0.311 ----0.454 ----0.855 -----4.6 ----7.9 ----16.4

Average: 0.411% -0.332% -0.453% -0.861% --5.1 ----7.2 ----16.3

TS% = 0.529%

And Kidd played 37 minutes to Rubio's 29.

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Or Lecque becomes that stud at PG for him to mentor, haha.

Lecque really had an encouraging summer league.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:57 am

Lecque really had an encouraging summer league.

He did. But I've gotten to the point where I don't have very high expectations of young guards who show a few promising games. We've seen too many flashes in the pan like Ulis, Okobo, Melton, Canaan, etc. Lecque may end up being something, but it won't be for a few years, and it'll be a long shot.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Different era and not quite an apples to apples comparison, agreed, more to make a point that you can win with a lead guard that can't shoot.

I still maintain, largely ignorantly, that a team of passers with a good offensive system should be able to do just that, and Booker with his 7 assists / 36, Rubio 10 / 36 (Minny stats), Saric 3 / 36 (and from various accounts a better passer than this number gives him credit for) is a pretty good start, especially with a gift in the post like Ayton.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:38 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:57 am

Lecque really had an encouraging summer league.

He did. But I've gotten to the point where I don't have very high expectations of young guards who show a few promising games. We've seen too many flashes in the pan like Ulis, Okobo, Melton, Canaan, etc. Lecque may end up being something, but it won't be for a few years, and it'll be a long shot.

Even I, the eternal optimist, am taking a wait-and-see approach with Lecque.

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:40 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Different era and not quite an apples to apples comparison, agreed, more to make a point that you can win with a lead guard that can't shoot.

I still maintain, largely ignorantly, that a team of passers with a good offensive system should be able to do just that, and Booker with his 7 assists / 36, Rubio 10 / 36 (Minny stats), Saric 3 / 36 (and from various accounts a better passer than this number gives him credit for) is a pretty good start, especially with a gift in the post like Ayton.

I fully expect Booker’s assist rate to drop off from last season as we move away from point Book.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:40 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Different era and not quite an apples to apples comparison, agreed, more to make a point that you can win with a lead guard that can't shoot.

I still maintain, largely ignorantly, that a team of passers with a good offensive system should be able to do just that, and Booker with his 7 assists / 36, Rubio 10 / 36 (Minny stats), Saric 3 / 36 (and from various accounts a better passer than this number gives him credit for) is a pretty good start, especially with a gift in the post like Ayton.

I fully expect Booker’s assist rate to drop off from last season as we move away from point Book.

I expect that too, along with a precipitous drop in his TOs.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:40 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Different era and not quite an apples to apples comparison, agreed, more to make a point that you can win with a lead guard that can't shoot.

I still maintain, largely ignorantly, that a team of passers with a good offensive system should be able to do just that, and Booker with his 7 assists / 36, Rubio 10 / 36 (Minny stats), Saric 3 / 36 (and from various accounts a better passer than this number gives him credit for) is a pretty good start, especially with a gift in the post like Ayton.

I fully expect Booker’s assist rate to drop off from last season as we move away from point Book.

I expect his scoring to drop some too, since there are other players now that can share that burden. His efficiency should improve and his defense should improve. That would be an ideal result.

I expect/hope for something like 25/5/5 with .48/.38/.88 splits

I’m excited all around. Rubio and Ayton two man hame should be hard to cover. And open things up all around for cutters and screens. Monty better start working on his sets.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:31 am

I expect/hope for something like 25/5/5 with .48/.38/.88 splits

That would be awesome.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:31 am

I expect/hope for something like 25/5/5 with .48/.38/.88 splits

With shooters and distributors around him (Rubio and Saric and Ayton are all good passers, and Bridges had a good stretch to end the year), he should be a 50/40/90 guy. It will all be about how strong his body is. Hopefully we get a Booker in his best shape of his life, and less doughy.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:08 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:31 am

I expect/hope for something like 25/5/5 with .48/.38/.88 splits

With shooters and distributors around him (Rubio and Saric and Ayton are all good passers, and Bridges had a good stretch to end the year), he should be a 50/40/90 guy. It will all be about how strong his body is. Hopefully we get a Booker in his best shape of his life, and less doughy.

Yeah, I'm expecting a little better.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:40 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Different era and not quite an apples to apples comparison, agreed, more to make a point that you can win with a lead guard that can't shoot.

I still maintain, largely ignorantly, that a team of passers with a good offensive system should be able to do just that, and Booker with his 7 assists / 36, Rubio 10 / 36 (Minny stats), Saric 3 / 36 (and from various accounts a better passer than this number gives him credit for) is a pretty good start, especially with a gift in the post like Ayton.

I fully expect Booker’s assist rate to drop off from last season as we move away from point Book.

Agree - I also predict Rubio will go >10 assists per game for the first time in his career (looking at Nash's stats he jumped to >10 for the first time in his career when he rejoined us from Dallas, at the age of 30, going from 8.8 to 11.5. I suppose I should be clear at this point that I'm not equating Rubio to Kidd or Nash - he's about $3 to their $5 - just that there's some pretty interesting similarities happening here).

JCSunsfan wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:26 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:40 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:52 am

You can play ball with a guard who can't score, it's just tough to score. That was the end of a historically low scoring era of bball and the Nets averaged 94 ppg in the playoff over those two seasons.

Out best hope with Ricky is that he becomes a good spot up 3pt shooter, and that we get a stud at pg in the draft next year for him to mentor.

Different era and not quite an apples to apples comparison, agreed, more to make a point that you can win with a lead guard that can't shoot.

I still maintain, largely ignorantly, that a team of passers with a good offensive system should be able to do just that, and Booker with his 7 assists / 36, Rubio 10 / 36 (Minny stats), Saric 3 / 36 (and from various accounts a better passer than this number gives him credit for) is a pretty good start, especially with a gift in the post like Ayton.

I fully expect Booker’s assist rate to drop off from last season as we move away from point Book.

I expect his scoring to drop some too, since there are other players now that can share that burden. His efficiency should improve and his defense should improve. That would be an ideal result.

Be interesting to see how this one plays out. In a lot of ways it's great that he's taken all the passing and scoring burden to date, now he can figure it out with decent players around him and settle into his 'normal' growth as a player.

But having more options around him could just as easily be offset by Rubio finding him more, and better, looks and if it's efficient for him to score more then we'd be crazy not to consider it (even though I hope this doesn't happen as it goes against my preference for a more balanced scoring team, scoring from lots of assists).