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Conversely, Cam is within his rights to say "No, I can't accept that." and play out his contract and become a free agent and shop for the best offer available. At that point, as we saw this year, the price is now out of their hands if he receives an offer sheet and it becomes either match it, trade him or let him go for nothing. Usually resigning players before they reach free agency is the best way to save money (although there have been several cases of players passing up lucrative offers that were higher than anything else a year later).

Personally, I think Cam is an excellent bench player with potential to be a solid 4th or 5th starter. I don't see anybody breaking the bank to sign him, but as we all know, it only takes one.....

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:36 pm

Conversely, Cam is within his rights to say "No, I can't accept that." and play out his contract and become a free agent and shop for the best offer available. At that point, as we saw this year, the price is now out of their hands if he receives an offer sheet and it becomes either match it, trade him or let him go for nothing. Usually resigning players before they reach free agency is the best way to save money (although there have been several cases of players passing up lucrative offers that were higher than anything else a year later).

Personally, I think Cam is an excellent bench player with potential to be a solid 4th or 5th starter. I don't see anybody breaking the bank to sign him, but as we all know, it only takes one.....

Precisely, both sides are treating this like the business it is, no reason to start with “hurt feelings” or how a debacle is to wait and see for a 26 year old role player.

Both sides are taking a risk, if the season pass by without several others “Knicks game”, it’s highly unlikely he can command a contract offer big enough to take him out of reach, and if he does it, he would jump over the 100mill range. My bet (and apparently, Jones as well) is that he won’t, but in the meantime he keeps flexibility to include Cam on any trade offer good enough to do it.

I will say, JJ from the outside does appear to only make deals for what he wants or not at all.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:36 pm

Conversely, Cam is within his rights to say "No, I can't accept that." and play out his contract and become a free agent and shop for the best offer available. At that point, as we saw this year, the price is now out of their hands if he receives an offer sheet and it becomes either match it, trade him or let him go for nothing. Usually resigning players before they reach free agency is the best way to save money (although there have been several cases of players passing up lucrative offers that were higher than anything else a year later).

Personally, I think Cam is an excellent bench player with potential to be a solid 4th or 5th starter. I don't see anybody breaking the bank to sign him, but as we all know, it only takes one.....

Only nuance here is that if he signs an offer sheet, we can't trade him. It is either match or loose for nothing.

I know you didn't say "sign" and only said "receive" but I see a lot of people thinking we can trade a guy after signing an offer sheet so I wanted to point it out.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:36 pm

Conversely, Cam is within his rights to say "No, I can't accept that." and play out his contract and become a free agent and shop for the best offer available.

Agreed. I hold no ill will towards Cam. Go have a great year. Go find a team next offseason to give you an offer sheet you're willing to accept.

As much as Cam has over-achieved as a projected mid-20s pick, he hasn't proven he can be a legit starter. And it might not make good sense to commit 4 years and 80-100M to a guy like that until he can prove it.

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:31 pm

As much as Cam has over-achieved as a projected mid-20s pick, he hasn't proven he can be a legit starter. And it might not make good sense to commit 4 years and 80-100M to a guy like that until he can prove it.

That's fine, but two things: (1) $80m won't look like much in a few years for a starting forward; (2) if he does "prove it," he'll suddenly command much more than $80m. And then we won't match him, and he'll just leave for nothing.

I kind of feel like the most likely outcome now is that Cam Johnson will be gone after this season. Either he won't play very well this year, in which case we won't re-sign him; or he'll play well, in which case other teams will outbid us.

I have no idea what might happen, but I hope you are wrong Mori. He and Mikal are my two favorite players.

I don't see many teams clamoring for Cam Johnson to the tune of $100+mil. Look at how many shooters/scorers are coming out in the draft each year who are younger and cheaper. Even if he "breaks out" to the tune of say 23 and 8 (which is highly unlikely), it won't be enough to convince teams he's some "gotta have" gamechanger FA who will elevate their team. And even as a solid enough roleplayer, there are other cheaper options via the draft.

While I agree with the general premises of your post Shel, I don’t think 23 and 8 are the numbers of a role player on a team
like the Suns and someone would absolutely throw 100+ his way.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:13 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:31 pm

As much as Cam has over-achieved as a projected mid-20s pick, he hasn't proven he can be a legit starter. And it might not make good sense to commit 4 years and 80-100M to a guy like that until he can prove it.

That's fine, but two things: (1) $80m won't look like much in a few years for a starting forward; (2) if he does "prove it," he'll suddenly command much more than $80m. And then we won't match him, and he'll just leave for nothing.

I kind of feel like the most likely outcome now is that Cam Johnson will be gone after this season. Either he won't play very well this year, in which case we won't re-sign him; or he'll play well, in which case other teams will outbid us.

1) We don't know if he can be a starting forward on a good team yet.

2) Why do you think we will let him walk for nothing when this front office haven't done that before?

pickle wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:04 am

While I agree with the general premises of your post Shel, I don’t think 23 and 8 are the numbers of a role player on a team
like the Suns and someone would absolutely throw 100+ his way.

23 and 8 are way better than MPJ when he got that conditional max extension. I don't think that there is any way Cam J will hit these. More like 18 and 7 at max...and that's already a stretch for 20mm/year.

Restricted free agents almost never leave their team..I think we have are overreacting quite a bit to the CamJ news. Even the ones that are rumored to want out usually stay.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:13 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:31 pm

As much as Cam has over-achieved as a projected mid-20s pick, he hasn't proven he can be a legit starter. And it might not make good sense to commit 4 years and 80-100M to a guy like that until he can prove it.

That's fine, but two things: (1) $80m won't look like much in a few years for a starting forward; (2) if he does "prove it," he'll suddenly command much more than $80m. And then we won't match him, and he'll just leave for nothing.

I kind of feel like the most likely outcome now is that Cam Johnson will be gone after this season. Either he won't play very well this year, in which case we won't re-sign him; or he'll play well, in which case other teams will outbid us.

Dude, your take on this is whack.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:36 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:04 am

While I agree with the general premises of your post Shel, I don’t think 23 and 8 are the numbers of a role player on a team
like the Suns and someone would absolutely throw 100+ his way.

23 and 8 are way better than MPJ when he got that conditional max extension. I don't think that there is any way Cam J will hit these. More like 18 and 7 at max...and that's already a stretch for 20mm/year.

Ya CamJ would get a max if he all of a sudden drops 23 and 8…I’m expecting more like 15/6

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:13 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:31 pm

As much as Cam has over-achieved as a projected mid-20s pick, he hasn't proven he can be a legit starter. And it might not make good sense to commit 4 years and 80-100M to a guy like that until he can prove it.

That's fine, but two things: (1) $80m won't look like much in a few years for a starting forward; (2) if he does "prove it," he'll suddenly command much more than $80m. And then we won't match him, and he'll just leave for nothing.

I kind of feel like the most likely outcome now is that Cam Johnson will be gone after this season. Either he won't play very well this year, in which case we won't re-sign him; or he'll play well, in which case other teams will outbid us.

I also think he is gone, but in a trade during the season, James Jones is slow, but not fool, he is looking the same that us, that this team is going nowhere as currently constructed, Crowder and Cam will be the headliners in a package to bring some help. My fear is that he es actually waiting for Durant again, and in such case, that package is obviously not enough, not even with those crazy gazillion picks packages and swaps asked. I keep thinking that bringing someone like Collins will be a better investment, of course the return is lower than Durant's, but keeping our picks (at least to be used on a separate trade) with CP3's retirement on the horizon is a must.

The price to bring Durant onboard might become too much, specially hidden costs (we are experiencing right now how it is to field a Top Heavy lineup, with 11Th stringers as your bench)

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:43 am

Dude, your take on this is whack.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I certainly hope he has a strong season, and I also hope he stays as a Sun for many years to come. I like Cam and I think he's going to be a good player and have a good career. I want him to do that here in Phoenix. I hope they can keep him here on a fair contract.

Time to shit or get off the pot with Crowder and make a deal to get somebody who actually play in the rotation and contribute.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:00 pm

Time to shit or get off the pot with Crowder and make a deal to get somebody who actually play in the rotation and contribute.

I think James Jones is still holding out hope that the Nets have a bad start to the season and begin to accept the idea of trading Durant to us again.

I don't think Crowder gets moved before December 14.