Western Conference Round 2, Game 3: Nuggets (2-0) @ Suns (0-2), Fri 5/05/23

[ShelC]

Denver kind of came back to Earth a bit. KCP and Brown didn't do anything on offense. MPJ hit a few timely 3s but that was it. AG got a few shots off but but we mostly let Jokic and Murray try to beat us. Thought we defended Murray well, he hit a lot of tough shots but maybe got tired by the end of the game. I like how much we're making him work but we gotta keep it up.

Aside from Book, Jock gets the gameball. It was night and day on the court between him and DA. He was grabbing boards, scoring in the post, pissing off the other players like Brown and he was at least making Jokic work. DA was shit again but he can come back in Game 4 and look great just the same. If not, I'd go with Jock and even work Biz in for a few minutes. It just is what it is with DA at this point. And while it's not a big deal that he left without speaking to reporters, it's hardly a good look from a guy who thinks of himself as a max player and "DominAyton".

Solid game from Cam, hopefully something he can build on. Didn't feel like TJ played 26 minutes but he hit a big 3 and got that last shot off at the end to ice it. Ross hit a few shots and looked good but he missed most of his 3s. I'd still give him a look next game. I wish we could combine TC and Okogie with TJ and Ross. Then we'd have some nice roleplayers.

I really liked KD staying aggressive and when he drove, the Nuggets had no answer. Maybe that's the balance we need - Book hitting the perimeter shots, KD driving and drawing fouls and the rest of the guys waiting for the kickouts. I think KD is also looking too much for ISOs, especially against AG who's giving him problems. Maybe some plays with him off the ball in a bit more action to get him scoring on the move or switched against a smaller defender. Him ISOing at the top of the key for a 3 or a contested 20ft jumper just lets the defense off the hook.

[ShelC]

Book all by himself…Don’t look at the bottom tier though

Wow…. On both ends. Again, there’s a reasonable excuse for this.. ayton would be where book is if Monty had plays for him and got him involved as much as book does. Right? Lol

Books just unreal right now and couldn’t be happier for the guy. He’s proof that hard work, dedication and most of all LOVE for the game does pay off.

Just about every graph/visual has Book and DA on opposite ends of the spectrum. Pretty wild and also very concerning given those two are supposed to be our young duo.

[AmareIsGod]

So the guy making $30M this year needs someone to hold his hand.

No. You don't pay him $30M to bench him in the playoffs, though.

Are you guys all the sudden saying we don't need Ayton to win in the playoffs this year, after everyone was saying he was the key to a title?

I’d rather lose with Jock than lose with this version of Ayton. We’re losing either way. And if we’re gonna win we absolutely needed this game. Ayton no-showed it and the best move to win in this game was to bench him.

I do think it's gonna be nearly impossible to win without him…but letting him lose us this game is not the way. Get him out, win the game, then deal with any consequences later.

See that’s where we disagree. You guys seem to be forgetting that he’s had bad games before and still made winning plays in crunch time. I certainly don’t think he was going to lose us the game. He had just secured a possession for us when Monty called timeout to take him out.

Those “consequences” could be way more important to the outcome of this postseason than leaving him in the game would have been.

Ayton was playing like ass. Fuck his confidence and ego. I'm not letting that get in the way of winning a game. You don't leave him out there after a shit game and a series of shit plays late in the game when it's critical we execute on both ends of the floor. Leave him out so you don't mess up his confidence and lose the game? Who wins in that scenario? Again, it's the Phoenix Suns. Not the Phoenix Aytons.

[Kryptonic]

So the guy making $30M this year needs someone to hold his hand.

No. You don't pay him $30M to bench him in the playoffs, though.

Are you guys all the sudden saying we don't need Ayton to win in the playoffs this year, after everyone was saying he was the key to a title?

I’d rather lose with Jock than lose with this version of Ayton. We’re losing either way. And if we’re gonna win we absolutely needed this game. Ayton no-showed it and the best move to win in this game was to bench him.

I do think it's gonna be nearly impossible to win without him…but letting him lose us this game is not the way. Get him out, win the game, then deal with any consequences later.

See that’s where we disagree. You guys seem to be forgetting that he’s had bad games before and still made winning plays in crunch time. I certainly don’t think he was going to lose us the game. He had just secured a possession for us when Monty called timeout to take him out.

Those “consequences” could be way more important to the outcome of this postseason than leaving him in the game would have been.

Ayton was playing like ass. Fuck his confidence and ego. I'm not letting that get in the way of winning a game. You don't leave him out there after a shit game and a series of shit plays late in the game when it's critical we execute on both ends of the floor. Leave him out so you don't mess up his confidence and lose the game? Who wins in that scenario? Again, it's the Phoenix Suns. Not the Phoenix Aytons.

30 mil a year and needs to be coddled…. GTFO with that shit. He needs to be shipped out asap.

[wpmiller42]

I genuinely want to love Ayton. He doesn't seem like a bad person. I honestly think this just isn't the spot for him. I don't know if CP3 or Monty or his contact situation or something outside of basketball messed him up. But he probably needs a change of scenery.

That being said, I don't have a problem with the benching because he hasn't built up the capital by playing hard all the time. This wasn't just a once in a blue moon lack of effort or bad game. If this was out of the ordinary for him and needed the opportunity to work through it, that's one thing. He just hasn't built that trust over the course of his career.

[ShelC]

Another way to look at it is our Big 3 of Book, KD and DA combined for 90 points.

[AmareIsGod]

I think we've all worked with or still work with plenty of people that show up late for things, don't get their work done on time, a lot of things that add up where we have to pick up the slack for them and it becomes very frustrating. Ayton is that kind of guy. We all know that person, and they can be a really nice individual, but they just don't get it and they don't put in the work necessary to be able to call it a full day of work. Ayton has to infuriate a guy like Booker or KD that brings it ever time they step on the floor. Imagine if Booker half assed it all the time on both ends of the floor. There's a reason he's one of the best and Ayton is "just another center" that's played in the NBA.

[djy2j]

Shamet had the lowest +/- on the Suns with -10
TJ the highest with +20
Hopefully Monty takes notice...

Btw, how do we have only one guy (KD 16 before Book had 2 with 6 seconds to go) that got to take free throws in the first 47:54 of the game?

Because the refs have banded together to go full on conspiracy with Book. Guy had 3 FT attempts all last game also. Can't believe no one in the media is talking about this.

[Superbone]

I CANNOT WAIT to see Jeremy spin this Ayton performance.

6. He was fouled on most of his missed shots but did not get the calls, and had bad calls go against him for foul trouble again.

7. Did not get enough looks, especially early in the game they need to get him involved offensively and that usually gets him going. They are going to need him offensively in order to win this series, especially with CP3 injured, as Booker+Durant doing it all is not sustainable, which leads me to my final point...

8. Stupid move by Monty to bench Ayton the last five minutes. Not only did it almost cost us the game with dumb plays by Jock, but it messes with Ayton's confidence, and like I said we're going to need him to win this series since Booker and KD cannot carry us by themselves for 4 out of 5 games. It might not have even been enough in this game if not for a couple of buckets by TJ in the clutch.

For 6, I agree that for playoff games where physical contact is more allowed, it doesn't seem to apply to Ayton for some reason. That doesn't help.

7 and 8 I do not agree on. Forcing the ball to Ayton has not worked for us. Have to get away from that and just let the offense flow. He needs to get his offense in the flow of the game. And Ayton deserved to get benched at the end, even with the mistakes, Jock's ability to play with force is what got us in the position we were in and still helped down the stretch. Hopefully, it serves as a wake up call for Ayton but I'm not sure his delicate mind will process it correctly. I can only hope.

[Superbone]

4 points and 9 rebounds from your max player.

It's clear to me what our goal needs to be in the off-season. Get away from those two contracts that are dead weights around our neck. (Paul and Ayton)

Who's going to want him? First we missed out on Sabonis. Then we missed out on Turner.

One of the bad organizations, Houston is my guess.

Udoka would probably make Ayton cry by Thanksgiving.

Maybe that's what he needs. I'm being serious here. Maybe Williams is coddling him too much.

[Superbone]

Glad to see TJ knock down some shots there. I hope that got him a rhythm for next game. It makes a difference having bucket getters.

It's in his (nick)name!

[Superbone]

This one really bugged me…like Ayton either jumps away from the play or he got moved very easily by Murray. Just bad defense.

He was trying to avoid foul trouble. Very obvious there.

Meh, he’s got 3 fouls at this point. That’s is not acceptable defense with 3 fouls.

Booker took a charge when he had 4 fouls.

[Superbone]

Let's hope for some growth here instead of going further into his shell.

[Superbone]

So the guy making $30M this year needs someone to hold his hand.

No. You don't pay him $30M to bench him in the playoffs, though.

Are you guys all the sudden saying we don't need Ayton to win in the playoffs this year, after everyone was saying he was the key to a title?

We don't need this Ayton. That's for sure. We need the 2021 playoffs Ayton. Not sure he's in there anymore but I still hold out hope.

[Superbone]

So the guy making $30M this year needs someone to hold his hand.

No. You don't pay him $30M to bench him in the playoffs, though.

Are you guys all the sudden saying we don't need Ayton to win in the playoffs this year, after everyone was saying he was the key to a title?

I’d rather lose with Jock than lose with this version of Ayton. We’re losing either way. And if we’re gonna win we absolutely needed this game. Ayton no-showed it and the best move to win in this game was to bench him.

I do think it's gonna be nearly impossible to win without him…but letting him lose us this game is not the way. Get him out, win the game, then deal with any consequences later.

See that’s where we disagree. You guys seem to be forgetting that he’s had bad games before and still made winning plays in crunch time. I certainly don’t think he was going to lose us the game. He had just secured a possession for us when Monty called timeout to take him out.

Those “consequences” could be way more important to the outcome of this postseason than leaving him in the game would have been.

Wow, you were willing to lose the series last night in order to not break Ayton's confidence? Whoa.

[Superbone]

Fucking disgusting behavior. Unacceptable to say shit like that to another person.

I guess so. What was the gist?

[Drewsprocket]

I think we've all worked with or still work with plenty of people that show up late for things, don't get their work done on time, a lot of things that add up where we have to pick up the work for them and it becomes very frustrating. Ayton is that kind of guy. We all know that person, and they can be a really nice individual, but they just don't get it and they don't put in the work necessary to be able to call it a full day of work

1000%
EVERYONE KNOWS IT. This is the second post season in a row where Ayton’s attitude and defensive reaction is observed during a pivotal game. Emotions run high sure, but none of it is channeled into his play. I think we’ll be lucky if he has a great performance to salvage his trade value.
He is probably a lovely person but at this point in his life he is over paid for what he does.

[Mori Chu]

Nice rewatch thread from last night's game.

[Kryptonic]

I think we've all worked with or still work with plenty of people that show up late for things, don't get their work done on time, a lot of things that add up where we have to pick up the slack for them and it becomes very frustrating. Ayton is that kind of guy. We all know that person, and they can be a really nice individual, but they just don't get it and they don't put in the work necessary to be able to call it a full day of work. Ayton has to infuriate a guy like Booker or KD that brings it ever time they step on the floor. Imagine if Booker half assed it all the time on both ends of the floor. There's a reason he's one of the best and Ayton is "just another center" that's played in the NBA.

Perfectly put…. Nice guy, but all talk and no consistency. After his amazing game he had the other day we ALL (except one) knew he was due to back slide. It’s just his thing.

[JeremyG]

So the guy making $30M this year needs someone to hold his hand.

No. You don't pay him $30M to bench him in the playoffs, though.

Are you guys all the sudden saying we don't need Ayton to win in the playoffs this year, after everyone was saying he was the key to a title?

I’d rather lose with Jock than lose with this version of Ayton. We’re losing either way. And if we’re gonna win we absolutely needed this game. Ayton no-showed it and the best move to win in this game was to bench him.

I do think it's gonna be nearly impossible to win without him…but letting him lose us this game is not the way. Get him out, win the game, then deal with any consequences later.

See that’s where we disagree. You guys seem to be forgetting that he’s had bad games before and still made winning plays in crunch time. I certainly don’t think he was going to lose us the game. He had just secured a possession for us when Monty called timeout to take him out.

Those “consequences” could be way more important to the outcome of this postseason than leaving him in the game would have been.

Ayton was playing like ass. Fuck his confidence and ego. I'm not letting that get in the way of winning a game. You don't leave him out there after a shit game and a series of shit plays late in the game when it's critical we execute on both ends of the floor. Leave him out so you don't mess up his confidence and lose the game? Who wins in that scenario? Again, it's the Phoenix Suns. Not the Phoenix Aytons.

It's as if you didn't read anything I wrote in the post you replied to.