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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:59 pm
by Xylus
SDC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:19 pm
offer KOC or zach Lowe their dream job -- running an nba franchise.
It's not unprecedented. John Hollinger is now VP of Basketball Operations with the Grizzlies.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:16 pm
by Split T
Zach Lowe knows basketball really well, but there is no chance I’d just let him jump into a gm role.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:08 pm
by jonh
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:16 pm
Zach Lowe knows basketball really well, but there is no chance I’d just let him jump into a gm role.
Compared to James Jones? I'd think about it.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:38 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
As if Sarver would ever employ someone who has criticized him in the past. Please come back to reality.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:18 pm
by virtual9mm
Superbone wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:06 am
Amin Elhassan has convinced me that David Griffin IS the guy we should go after. He's from Phoenix. He's smart and well liked around the league. He may be the guy that is able to manage Sarver. Do it.
I don't trust Elhassan's opinion because he is too much of a hater, and here I'm not sure he'll be objective because Griffin is his boss.
That being said, I agree. I'd make Griffin team president and leave Jones under him as GM. How hands-on Griffin gets depends on how well Jones is doing. Jones has the smarts and the player relationships -- but it was a disservice to him to throw him into the fire without enough experience.
Call what I'd like to see the brain trust model.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:30 pm
by Split T
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:08 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:16 pm
Zach Lowe knows basketball really well, but there is no chance I’d just let him jump into a gm role.
Compared to James Jones? I'd think about it.
What do you have against James Jones? He’s just inexperienced, but at least he had a couple years as an assistant gm and has a very good reputation among players. I’m sure Lowe is a respected journalist, but that wouldn’t translate like being a former player does, as far as respect from current players is concerned.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:52 pm
by SDC
zach lowe offered push back when arnovitz brought up josh jackson in their latest podcast
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:14 am
by jonh
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:30 pm
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:08 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:16 pm
Zach Lowe knows basketball really well, but there is no chance I’d just let him jump into a gm role.
Compared to James Jones? I'd think about it.
What do you have against James Jones? He’s just inexperienced, but at least he had a couple years as an assistant gm and has a very good reputation among players. I’m sure Lowe is a respected journalist, but that wouldn’t translate like being a former player does, as far as respect from current players is concerned.
[Jon's Hot Take]I buy into the narrative that Sarver is a frequent meddler and micro-manager--I feel the team would be best served with a GM that capbable of/willing to set boundaries on that meddling. In the time Jones has been GM, I haven't seen any indication that he is willing to tell Sarver no if they disagree on personnel decisions. I also don't love his comments on the (lack of) importance of the draft, given that his team has the 2nd worst record in the league. Im fine if he prefers to build through trades/FA, but I dont have a lot of confidence in his preparation for THIS draft. [/Jon's Hot Take]
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:15 am
by jonh
SDC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:52 pm
zach lowe offered push back when arnovitz brought up josh jackson in their latest podcast
Push back on what?
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:28 am
by Superbone
jonh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:15 am
SDC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:52 pm
zach lowe offered push back when arnovitz brought up josh jackson in their latest podcast
Push back on what?
Yeah, I'm not sure what he's talking about. I'm listening to that podcast right now. Maybe that Lowe still has hope for JJ which is what it sounds like whereas Arnovitz didn't include him in our core group.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:39 am
by Mori Chu
SDC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:19 pm
offer KOC or zach Lowe their dream job -- running an nba franchise.
bryan c. is another obvious choice. sarver should reach out to the colangelos.
KOC? Do you mean Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer podcasts? I don't think he is qualified.
Zach Lowe would probably have the know-how about the league, but with no experience he would probably do a rough job at the start. I'd prefer to bring anybody like that into an assistant role to let them learn the job.
I think Saver will not seek out the Colangeli. There's too much history and baggage there. Saver has too much pride to return to that particular family.
I do think Griffin would make a lot of sense. He's experienced and has done a decent job as a GM for a long time. Not sure whether he is an exceptional GM, but he'd be solid and he knows what he is doing. And he is from this area and would have a certain affection for trying to make this specific team rise to prominence again.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:42 pm
by Split T
jonh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:14 am
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:30 pm
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:08 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:16 pm
Zach Lowe knows basketball really well, but there is no chance I’d just let him jump into a gm role.
Compared to James Jones? I'd think about it.
What do you have against James Jones? He’s just inexperienced, but at least he had a couple years as an assistant gm and has a very good reputation among players. I’m sure Lowe is a respected journalist, but that wouldn’t translate like being a former player does, as far as respect from current players is concerned.
[Jon's Hot Take]I buy into the narrative that Sarver is a frequent meddler and micro-manager--I feel the team would be best served with a GM that capbable of/willing to set boundaries on that meddling. In the time Jones has been GM, I haven't seen any indication that he is willing to tell Sarver no if they disagree on personnel decisions. I also don't love his comments on the (lack of) importance of the draft, given that his team has the 2nd worst record in the league. Im fine if he prefers to build through trades/FA, but I dont have a lot of confidence in his preparation for THIS draft. [/Jon's Hot Take]
I think those are all fair points..do you think Lowe would be any better though?
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:02 pm
by Split T
Maybe Sarver is our newest scout
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:18 pm
by Cap
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:02 pm
Maybe Sarver is our newest scout
I’m sure he thinks he’s qualified.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:39 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:02 pm
Maybe Sarver is our newest scout
And his close friend Larry Legend. Only it’s not the basketball Larry Legend.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:03 am
by INFORMER
I hope Sarver was in attendance for the earlier game and paid attention to Dylan Windler.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:22 am
by jonh
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:42 pm
jonh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:14 am
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:30 pm
jonh wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:08 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:16 pm
Zach Lowe knows basketball really well, but there is no chance I’d just let him jump into a gm role.
Compared to James Jones? I'd think about it.
What do you have against James Jones? He’s just inexperienced, but at least he had a couple years as an assistant gm and has a very good reputation among players. I’m sure Lowe is a respected journalist, but that wouldn’t translate like being a former player does, as far as respect from current players is concerned.
[Jon's Hot Take]I buy into the narrative that Sarver is a frequent meddler and micro-manager--I feel the team would be best served with a GM that capbable of/willing to set boundaries on that meddling. In the time Jones has been GM, I haven't seen any indication that he is willing to tell Sarver no if they disagree on personnel decisions. I also don't love his comments on the (lack of) importance of the draft, given that his team has the 2nd worst record in the league. Im fine if he prefers to build through trades/FA, but I dont have a lot of confidence in his preparation for THIS draft. [/Jon's Hot Take]
I think those are all fair points..do you think Lowe would be any better though?
I think Lowe has leverage in that he can always go back to ESPN if it doesn't work out, and so it should be easier for him to make demands of Sarver. Its unclear is Jones has that kind of leverage.
That said, I don't know Lowes personality enough to know if he would be able to be assertive in talking to a fairly forceful and abrasive personality like Sarver.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:30 am
by In2ition
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:03 am
I hope Sarver was in attendance for the earlier game and paid attention to Dylan Windler.
He is quite the shooter and rebounder with decent height. Seems a little upright, but I'll keep an eye out for him.
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:48 am
by Superbone
Scary parallels between Howard Schultz and Robert Sarver. Good read:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 4f88c4a75d
Howard Schultz’s ‘nightmare’: How his first big gamble outside Starbucks ended in defeat
When Howard Schultz bought the Seattle SuperSonics in 2001, his friends told the Starbucks chief he was overestimating what he could do to save the struggling basketball franchise.
“Buying the Sonics could only lead to disappointment and disillusion, they told me . . . ‘You’re naive,’ they said,” Schultz wrote in a Seattle Times op-ed at the time. “I know you can’t superimpose the Starbucks culture on a different industry. But the similarity between Starbucks and the Sonics is this: The fan is the customer.”
But his tenure with the Sonics was marred by conflict with star players, fraught negotiations with lawmakers and private outbursts at low-level employees, according to interviews with more than two dozen former Sonics employees, co-owners and players, as well as current and former Seattle city council members and Washington state lawmakers.
The powerful businessman, who turned Starbucks into an international coffee behemoth and was a darling of the Seattle business community, flailed under a new kind of public scrutiny from fans and media, many of these people said.
“His approach was very much a feeling of entitlement,” said Nick Licata, a Seattle city council member at the time. “ ‘Arrogance’ is probably the right word.”
In a book released earlier this year, ahead of his potential presidential campaign, Schultz acknowledged he was wrong to think the lessons he took from running Starbucks could be applied to running the Sonics.
“What I did not appreciate at the time was that owning a public sports team is not the same as operating a private or even public company,” Schultz writes in his book. “The obligations are different.”
Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:21 am
by Aztec Sunsfan
Can we buy a full box of this guy’s book, and put them on every desk Sarver sits during the day and travels? If just for him to read those last two lines, it will be worth it.