Re: Around the League: The Off-season
Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:08 pm
Anyone catch Magic's interview today on First Take? It was a doozy...he went in on everyone in the org. And on the day the Lakers introduced Frank Vogel too...
A place for fans of the Phoenix Suns
https://www.phx-suns.net/
I wouldn't bank on that if I were the Pelicans. And he could still force his way out even if he signs the max extension with them.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:57 pmNo one turns down the rookie max extension.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:39 pmI think it's naive to even say he's "essentially" locked up for 8-9 years. Looking at the recent history of the top players in the league, New Orleans should feel lucky if they have Zion when he's at the peak of his prime.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:37 amZion buys them time...just get the best offer you can to build around Zion. They don’t need to win 50 games next year. Just show promise and let that team grow around Zion. He’s locked up for 8-9 years essentially. Just do it right this time and don’t make stupid decisions to chase wins.
I also don't understand this narrative of stupid decisions by the Pelicans front office. They certainly weren't perfect (Solomon Hill), but their biggest move(s) weren't stupid. IIRC, Cousins and AD were playing pretty damn well together right up to the point that Cousins suffered a completely unpredictable injury. Most people thought the Randle and Mirotic moves would work out better, and maybe they would have if AD (and Klutch) didn't sabotage their entire season in January.
Just like AD is doing now...Flagrant Fowl wrote:And he could still force his way out even if he signs the max extension with them.
I don’t understand what you’re suggesting...they should trade Zion now because he might force his way out in 5 years?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 6:41 pmI wouldn't bank on that if I were the Pelicans. And he could still force his way out even if he signs the max extension with them.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:57 pmNo one turns down the rookie max extension.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:39 pmI think it's naive to even say he's "essentially" locked up for 8-9 years. Looking at the recent history of the top players in the league, New Orleans should feel lucky if they have Zion when he's at the peak of his prime.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:37 amZion buys them time...just get the best offer you can to build around Zion. They don’t need to win 50 games next year. Just show promise and let that team grow around Zion. He’s locked up for 8-9 years essentially. Just do it right this time and don’t make stupid decisions to chase wins.
I also don't understand this narrative of stupid decisions by the Pelicans front office. They certainly weren't perfect (Solomon Hill), but their biggest move(s) weren't stupid. IIRC, Cousins and AD were playing pretty damn well together right up to the point that Cousins suffered a completely unpredictable injury. Most people thought the Randle and Mirotic moves would work out better, and maybe they would have if AD (and Klutch) didn't sabotage their entire season in January.
That is next level planning.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 8:38 pmI don’t understand what you’re suggesting...they should trade Zion now because he might force his way out in 5 years?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 6:41 pmI wouldn't bank on that if I were the Pelicans. And he could still force his way out even if he signs the max extension with them.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:57 pmNo one turns down the rookie max extension.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:39 pmI think it's naive to even say he's "essentially" locked up for 8-9 years. Looking at the recent history of the top players in the league, New Orleans should feel lucky if they have Zion when he's at the peak of his prime.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:37 amZion buys them time...just get the best offer you can to build around Zion. They don’t need to win 50 games next year. Just show promise and let that team grow around Zion. He’s locked up for 8-9 years essentially. Just do it right this time and don’t make stupid decisions to chase wins.
I also don't understand this narrative of stupid decisions by the Pelicans front office. They certainly weren't perfect (Solomon Hill), but their biggest move(s) weren't stupid. IIRC, Cousins and AD were playing pretty damn well together right up to the point that Cousins suffered a completely unpredictable injury. Most people thought the Randle and Mirotic moves would work out better, and maybe they would have if AD (and Klutch) didn't sabotage their entire season in January.
You're right. I'm just playing devil's advocate because, well yeah, he just might force his way out in five years.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 8:38 pmI don’t understand what you’re suggesting...they should trade Zion now because he might force his way out in 5 years?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 6:41 pmI wouldn't bank on that if I were the Pelicans. And he could still force his way out even if he signs the max extension with them.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:57 pmNo one turns down the rookie max extension.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:39 pmI think it's naive to even say he's "essentially" locked up for 8-9 years. Looking at the recent history of the top players in the league, New Orleans should feel lucky if they have Zion when he's at the peak of his prime.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:37 amZion buys them time...just get the best offer you can to build around Zion. They don’t need to win 50 games next year. Just show promise and let that team grow around Zion. He’s locked up for 8-9 years essentially. Just do it right this time and don’t make stupid decisions to chase wins.
I also don't understand this narrative of stupid decisions by the Pelicans front office. They certainly weren't perfect (Solomon Hill), but their biggest move(s) weren't stupid. IIRC, Cousins and AD were playing pretty damn well together right up to the point that Cousins suffered a completely unpredictable injury. Most people thought the Randle and Mirotic moves would work out better, and maybe they would have if AD (and Klutch) didn't sabotage their entire season in January.
That’s fair, I just think Zion makes their next step easier. Try to keep AD if you can, but if he’s adamant about leaving, ship him out and build around Zion. Having Zion will spark interest in the team and they aren’t under pressure to be a playoff team next year. Get a good haul of young players/picks for AD. Let some contracts expire next year, draft smart, sign some solid FA’s and they should be set up real nice to compete soon with Zion.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 11:24 pmYou're right. I'm just playing devil's advocate because, well yeah, he just might force his way out in five years.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 8:38 pmI don’t understand what you’re suggesting...they should trade Zion now because he might force his way out in 5 years?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 6:41 pmI wouldn't bank on that if I were the Pelicans. And he could still force his way out even if he signs the max extension with them.Split T wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:57 pmNo one turns down the rookie max extension.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:39 pm
I think it's naive to even say he's "essentially" locked up for 8-9 years. Looking at the recent history of the top players in the league, New Orleans should feel lucky if they have Zion when he's at the peak of his prime.
I also don't understand this narrative of stupid decisions by the Pelicans front office. They certainly weren't perfect (Solomon Hill), but their biggest move(s) weren't stupid. IIRC, Cousins and AD were playing pretty damn well together right up to the point that Cousins suffered a completely unpredictable injury. Most people thought the Randle and Mirotic moves would work out better, and maybe they would have if AD (and Klutch) didn't sabotage their entire season in January.
They still have to take him and try to make it work, but small market teams like the Pelicans (and Suns) need to be more diligent with star players than they ever needed to be in the past.
Think you’d want to combine Booker and Zion. We’d be laughably low on perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:11 pmWhat about Booker?
How about a Booker-Zion swap? How would a trade centered around them looks like?
Of course is the ideal pairing, but I think he is someone who answers your question. Somebody was talking about trading Ayton for AD, combining Booker AD here and Zion-Ayton- Jrue over there, but I think New Orleans would prefer the other way around. Also talks about how keeping Zion and trading AD resets the expectations over there got me thinking about the same in Phoenix.Split T wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 pmThink you’d want to combine Booker and Zion. We’d be laughably low on perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:11 pmWhat about Booker?
How about a Booker-Zion swap? How would a trade centered around them looks like?
True, booker might help them more than Zion, but I don’t think they could acquire him. Don’t think we’d do it. I’d rank Zion ahead of booker in value, but it’s a total reset on our roster and we’d probably have to wait even longer to get good perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 9:01 pmOf course is the ideal pairing, but I think he is someone who answers your question. Somebody was talking about trading Ayton for AD, combining Booker AD here and Zion-Ayton- Jrue over there, but I think New Orleans would prefer the other way around. Also talks about how keeping Zion and trading AD resets the expectations over there got me thinking about the same in Phoenix.Split T wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 pmThink you’d want to combine Booker and Zion. We’d be laughably low on perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:11 pmWhat about Booker?
How about a Booker-Zion swap? How would a trade centered around them looks like?
I think every GM in the league would be happy to trade Booker for Zion except ours.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 5:18 amTrue, booker might help them more than Zion, but I don’t think they could acquire him. Don’t think we’d do it. I’d rank Zion ahead of booker in value, but it’s a total reset on our roster and we’d probably have to wait even longer to get good perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 9:01 pmOf course is the ideal pairing, but I think he is someone who answers your question. Somebody was talking about trading Ayton for AD, combining Booker AD here and Zion-Ayton- Jrue over there, but I think New Orleans would prefer the other way around. Also talks about how keeping Zion and trading AD resets the expectations over there got me thinking about the same in Phoenix.Split T wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 pmThink you’d want to combine Booker and Zion. We’d be laughably low on perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:11 pmWhat about Booker?
How about a Booker-Zion swap? How would a trade centered around them looks like?
With our roster? I’m not sure that’s the case. I’m not saying it would be a bad deal...we’d come out ahead talent wise, but we’d be starting over again. I don’t think this team is very far away from being good. Another good ball handler would go a long way...trading booker for Zion leaves you two ball handlers short. Also not really sure what Ayton would do, I don’t love the fit between those two. And I think other GM’s would feel similar, but maybe I’m wrong.Indy wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:11 amI think every GM in the league would be happy to trade Booker for Zion except ours.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 5:18 amTrue, booker might help them more than Zion, but I don’t think they could acquire him. Don’t think we’d do it. I’d rank Zion ahead of booker in value, but it’s a total reset on our roster and we’d probably have to wait even longer to get good perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 9:01 pmOf course is the ideal pairing, but I think he is someone who answers your question. Somebody was talking about trading Ayton for AD, combining Booker AD here and Zion-Ayton- Jrue over there, but I think New Orleans would prefer the other way around. Also talks about how keeping Zion and trading AD resets the expectations over there got me thinking about the same in Phoenix.Split T wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 pmThink you’d want to combine Booker and Zion. We’d be laughably low on perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:11 pm
What about Booker?
How about a Booker-Zion swap? How would a trade centered around them looks like?
We’d be starting over again, but we’d be starting over with Zion-Ayton, which is a good start to starting over and buys us time.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:18 amWith our roster? I’m not sure that’s the case. I’m not saying it would be a bad deal...we’d come out ahead talent wise, but we’d be starting over again. I don’t think this team is very far away from being good. Another good ball handler would go a long way...trading booker for Zion leaves you two ball handlers short. Also not really sure what Ayton would do, I don’t love the fit between those two. And I think other GM’s would feel similar, but maybe I’m wrong.Indy wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:11 amI think every GM in the league would be happy to trade Booker for Zion except ours.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 5:18 amTrue, booker might help them more than Zion, but I don’t think they could acquire him. Don’t think we’d do it. I’d rank Zion ahead of booker in value, but it’s a total reset on our roster and we’d probably have to wait even longer to get good perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 9:01 pmOf course is the ideal pairing, but I think he is someone who answers your question. Somebody was talking about trading Ayton for AD, combining Booker AD here and Zion-Ayton- Jrue over there, but I think New Orleans would prefer the other way around. Also talks about how keeping Zion and trading AD resets the expectations over there got me thinking about the same in Phoenix.
Are you sure? I am pretty sure we have done that at least twice during this rebuild.Cap wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:24 amWe’d be starting over again, but we’d be starting over with Zion-Ayton, which is a good start to starting over and buys us time.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:18 amWith our roster? I’m not sure that’s the case. I’m not saying it would be a bad deal...we’d come out ahead talent wise, but we’d be starting over again. I don’t think this team is very far away from being good. Another good ball handler would go a long way...trading booker for Zion leaves you two ball handlers short. Also not really sure what Ayton would do, I don’t love the fit between those two. And I think other GM’s would feel similar, but maybe I’m wrong.Indy wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:11 amI think every GM in the league would be happy to trade Booker for Zion except ours.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 5:18 amTrue, booker might help them more than Zion, but I don’t think they could acquire him. Don’t think we’d do it. I’d rank Zion ahead of booker in value, but it’s a total reset on our roster and we’d probably have to wait even longer to get good perimeter talent.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 9:01 pm
Of course is the ideal pairing, but I think he is someone who answers your question. Somebody was talking about trading Ayton for AD, combining Booker AD here and Zion-Ayton- Jrue over there, but I think New Orleans would prefer the other way around. Also talks about how keeping Zion and trading AD resets the expectations over there got me thinking about the same in Phoenix.
I know we’re all sick of rebuilding, but that doesn’t mean we can just decide that the rebuilding is over and we’ve built something special. We haven’t. No matter how long rebuilding takes, you’ve got to keep doing it until it succeeds. You can’t just declare the process over.