Suns News: Week 9 12/22-12/28

[Shabazz]

Comparing Lowry and Bledsoe on the court is easy because they are pretty similar, but to compare numbers is silly. Bledsoe is splitting time with 2 other starting PGs. Lowry is the sole PG on his team. Greivis is playing now only because DeRozan is out but he's not even impacting Lowry. I think Bledsoe is a 24 and 8 guy easily if he's getting 35mpg and the lead guard. And you can talk about injuries but Lowry had the same rap until last year.

Also, Lowry is 3.5 years older than Bledsoe. Take a look at Lowry's stats 3.5 years ago and prior. I think Bledsoe can follow a similar career trajectory, but he's already ahead of Lowry's pace. That upside was factored in to Bledsoe's contract.

[specialsauce]

Btw, if having Dragic dominate the ball is a goal, keeping IT3 instead is a pretty counterproductive idea. I think I haven't seen a bigger black hole on the Suns since Marbury, leaving aside stupid chuckers. Bledsoe is way more complementary to Dragic and also capable of scoring 20 any given night. He is more expensive for sure, but I guess that's what trend to happen with real two way players.

This may be quibbling over semantics, but I think there is a difference between dominating the ball and being the teams primary ball-handler and offense initiator. I don't have a problem with Dragic playing off the ball some, and I don't have a problem with Isaiah Thomas's role now. Dealing Bledsoe doesn't mean Thomas has to be graduated to playing 35 minutes a night, or even that he has to start next to Dragic.

IT3 is extremely ball dominant. He dribbles, hesitates, changes directions, etc and won't give the rock up unless absolutely needed. And if it's not an assist situation, usually he'll demand it back instantly. He has pick and roll ability but creating for others is way down in his priority list compared to scoring on his own.

If you have IT3 on the floor, his game is all about having the ball, period. If he doesn't, he just stands there watching. I don't know where that idea that he can play off the ball came from. Just because he scores doesn't make him well suited to be an off guard, unlike Dragic. But if you have IT, there is little free flowing so Dragic actually gets marginalized, unlike with Bledsoe who turns out is a more willing passer.

And about his current role, IT3's clearly not satisfied with it, with good reason I might add since he is delivering and is clearly a starter caliber guard, but you can't play him alongside Dragic. As the season has pregressed, there is not one 5 man unit among the top20 for the Suns that features Dragic and IT3, and it's no mistery why.

To me the choice is simple. Trade Thomas, add more balance (Brandan Wright+, for instance).

+1

[Indy]

Also, Lowry is 3.5 years older than Lowry.

That is impressive. I didn't think it was even possible!

[Indy]

Btw, if having Dragic dominate the ball is a goal, keeping IT3 instead is a pretty counterproductive idea. I think I haven't seen a bigger black hole on the Suns since Marbury, leaving aside stupid chuckers. Bledsoe is way more complementary to Dragic and also capable of scoring 20 any given night. He is more expensive for sure, but I guess that's what trend to happen with real two way players.

This may be quibbling over semantics, but I think there is a difference between dominating the ball and being the teams primary ball-handler and offense initiator. I don't have a problem with Dragic playing off the ball some, and I don't have a problem with Isaiah Thomas's role now. Dealing Bledsoe doesn't mean Thomas has to be graduated to playing 35 minutes a night, or even that he has to start next to Dragic.

IT3 is extremely ball dominant. He dribbles, hesitates, changes directions, etc and won't give the rock up unless absolutely needed. And if it's not an assist situation, usually he'll demand it back instantly. He has pick and roll ability but creating for others is way down in his priority list compared to scoring on his own.

If you have IT3 on the floor, his game is all about having the ball, period. If he doesn't, he just stands there watching. I don't know where that idea that he can play off the ball came from. Just because he scores doesn't make him well suited to be an off guard, unlike Dragic. But if you have IT, there is little free flowing so Dragic actually gets marginalized, unlike with Bledsoe who turns out is a more willing passer.

And about his current role, IT3's clearly not satisfied with it, with good reason I might add since he is delivering and is clearly a starter caliber guard, but you can't play him alongside Dragic. As the season has pregressed, there is not one 5 man unit among the top20 for the Suns that features Dragic and IT3, and it's no mistery why.

To me the choice is simple. Trade Thomas, add more balance (Brandan Wright+, for instance).

+1

My biggest issue with the "trade IT and keep Goran and Bleds" is that IT isn't really our 3rd PG. He is our 2nd microwave. And I think it is critical to have two of those guys. I don't think we would be in a good spot if we have Green as our only microwave (especially off the bench).

[OE32]

All I want for Christmas is TJ Warren. In the limited time we've watched him play, I've been impressed by his passing. I remember him working very well with Bled and Tyler, in particular. I'd like to move Green and give those minutes to Warren.

From what I can tell, TJ is already a better passer and ball handler than GG. Not the shooter Gerald is, but he scores more inside. Importantly, GG is a better defender at this point. I think defense and lack of intensity have kept TJ out of the line-up. Still, I'm eager to watch him play, and I hope we make a move to open up minutes.

[specialsauce]

Btw, if having Dragic dominate the ball is a goal, keeping IT3 instead is a pretty counterproductive idea. I think I haven't seen a bigger black hole on the Suns since Marbury, leaving aside stupid chuckers. Bledsoe is way more complementary to Dragic and also capable of scoring 20 any given night. He is more expensive for sure, but I guess that's what trend to happen with real two way players.

This may be quibbling over semantics, but I think there is a difference between dominating the ball and being the teams primary ball-handler and offense initiator. I don't have a problem with Dragic playing off the ball some, and I don't have a problem with Isaiah Thomas's role now. Dealing Bledsoe doesn't mean Thomas has to be graduated to playing 35 minutes a night, or even that he has to start next to Dragic.

IT3 is extremely ball dominant. He dribbles, hesitates, changes directions, etc and won't give the rock up unless absolutely needed. And if it's not an assist situation, usually he'll demand it back instantly. He has pick and roll ability but creating for others is way down in his priority list compared to scoring on his own.

If you have IT3 on the floor, his game is all about having the ball, period. If he doesn't, he just stands there watching. I don't know where that idea that he can play off the ball came from. Just because he scores doesn't make him well suited to be an off guard, unlike Dragic. But if you have IT, there is little free flowing so Dragic actually gets marginalized, unlike with Bledsoe who turns out is a more willing passer.

And about his current role, IT3's clearly not satisfied with it, with good reason I might add since he is delivering and is clearly a starter caliber guard, but you can't play him alongside Dragic. As the season has pregressed, there is not one 5 man unit among the top20 for the Suns that features Dragic and IT3, and it's no mistery why.

To me the choice is simple. Trade Thomas, add more balance (Brandan Wright+, for instance).

+1

My biggest issue with the "trade IT and keep Goran and Bleds" is that IT isn't really our 3rd PG. He is our 2nd microwave. And I think it is critical to have two of those guys. I don't think we would be in a good spot if we have Green as our only microwave (especially off the bench).

I'd rather have smart players than LA Fitness street ball microwaves

[Indy]

I get what you are saying Saucy, but I think that is grossly understating IT. He is my 4th favorite PG on the team, so I am not coming at this from a biased point of view, but he leads our team in PER (and it isn't even close), and has been very effective on the court. He is also 2nd on our team in +/- to Markeiff.

[INFORMER]

I only had lo look one post above the one where you spoke about exaggeration to find one example. 'That hardly lends credence to the "Isaiah Thomas ruined everything" camp.' Yeah, totally accurate description of the reality right there. And I've seen you talk about people deifying McD and probably wouldn't take a lot of time to find more examples, if I was interested in spending time in searching through your posts, which I am certainly not. I'll leve this at 'you make plenty of exaggerations, like everybody else'.

The difference in those so called exaggerations is that they're not offered in the context of analysis. They're merely ways of satirically referring to various schools of thought.

[Superbone]

Also, Lowry is 3.5 years older than Lowry.

That is impressive. I didn't think it was even possible!

Have you not seen Interstellar?

[Ring_Wanted]

The difference in those so called exaggerations is that they're not offered in the context of analysis. They're merely ways of satirically referring to various schools of thought.

Hahahahah

Not analysis. 'Just a way to refer to schools of thought'. Not analysis. Ok.

[INFORMER]

[OE32]

Just remember how much everyone missed you when you were gone.

[Superbone]

Just remember how much everyone missed you when you were gone.

Apparently not RW.

Nah, I appreciate their opposing viewpoints.

[Mori Chu]

Ring: I think you are giving INF grief he doesn't deserve.

[Nodack]

Nodack, it seems as though you're looking for cheerleading, not fandom.

...someone who believes that anything and everything the Suns do is good. If that is your outlook, so be it.

Informer, I appreciate your candid response and taking the time to write what you did, but I don't think you know me very well. I don't live in a fantasy world where all Suns players are great and everybody else sucks. I don't expect everybody to come here and worship the Suns players. I certainly don't. I appreciate the game of basketball no matter who is playing, but grew up in Phoenix, so it makes sense that my team is the Suns. I support them and want them to do well like everybody else. They are a young team and a work in progress. That takes patience, which almost no fans have. I am almost certain that there won't be any trades made during this season unless..

1. Somebody gets hurt and they trade for a replacement, but most likely they will just acquire a player like Barbosa last year, so no trade.

2. We go on an absolute tear and the Suns start thinking championship contender and trade to get the one piece top put us over the top.That is highly unlikely this year, so no trade.

3. We suck so bad that it is obvious to everybody that a major change needs to happen. We are around .500 and really about where we should be with this young team, so no trade IMO.

Trade talk is OK every once in awhile and maybe it's just me, but every time I try to read a thread it seems like it is totally dominated by trade talk and in every thread. I would love to chat about the Suns in some thread without all the BS never going to happen trade talk dominating the conversation. Just one thread where people can go that accept that this is the team we have for the year where they talk about the players we have and the strategies they think we should have with the actual team we have instead of this fantasy world where we get to keep picking who we think should be on the Suns.

If you can't beat them, join them. I think I want to trade CP3 for Goran, Lebron for Bledsoe, Durant for Morris, Griffin for Tucker, Dwight Howard for Plumlee. I think that would make us a better team.

I have my own opinions with the Suns and they aren't all red roses and lollypops.

The Suns took a gamble with three high profile SG's. As any Suns fan knows the Suns throughout history put the highest priority on guards. The Suns have a reputation as a running team and having the three of them is kind of exciting. The chemistry so far has been hit and miss, but there have been bright spots too. They aren't going to bust up the experiment this soon. Any real GM is going to let the season play out and not knee jerk into a trade every time a player misses a basket or we lose a game.

Plumlee drives me nuts. He has to have the worst hands in basketball. If they traded him I would throw a party. I don't hate the guy, but he seems to be a walking turnover who can't finish. They inserted him into the Wiz game and threw the ball down to him in the post. I turned to the TV and said, "Might as well start running back the other way." and sure enough he fumbled the ball and it was a turnover right on cue.

Len I am pinning a lot of hopes on, but another Suns tradition is not having good centers. Len looks very promising and I did throw a party when Len was bumped up to starter over Plumlee. I will be expecting Len to be traded this off season because if a Suns center does well he gets traded. It's the rules. Gortat was the best Suns center in a long long time imo and he was shipped out.He wasn't a super star, just an all around good player, which is extremely rare for a Suns center. Would you take Gortat and Len right now? That would be a pretty impressive combo IMO.

Green is super streaky. He is either real hot or real cold like a lot of shooters. He never saw a shot he didn't like like a lot of shooters. That can annoy some people. I am ok with it. He is there to score. That comes down to the coach to control. When he is hot you play him more. When he is cold you tell him to take it to the hole or sit down.

The Morris twins? I almost don't like them because I can't tell them apart and it annoys me. I was really against Markeif at first because he was just so so and took awhile to develop. The twins have been good.I am not super excited or bummed about them, just ok.

TJ Warren has been impressive and shows a lot of promise. He seems mature and more seasoned than Goodwin already who has started a little slow and isn't quite as mature in his playing yet.

The Suns have some things to work out as a team. Their defense of big men is a joke so far. Len is starting to be a force, but Plumlee has been swiss cheese on both ends. Teams big men have their top games against us.Under Nash the main course was the pick and roll. Now we barely know what that is. Under Nash everybody needed Nash to make plays for them because we had nobody that could create their own shot. When Nash would go out the offense would sputter to a stop. Now it's the opposite. Everybody is a one on one player and we are at the bottom of the league in assists. When they do try to pass to an open man the pass is low, high or to the side making the receiver bobble it long enough for the defense to recover. Nash would put it right in their sweet spot. Lazy passes are also being picked off a lot. Layups are being missed more than they should. If you gave Plumlee 10 open attempts at a slam dunk he would miss 7 of them.

In my youth we used to play tip in. You guys know what that is? It was a great game to practice free throws, rebounding and shooting the ball around the basket under pressure. Two guys. One guy shoots free throws. The other guy has to rebound the misses. Make the free throw and you get a point and you shoot again. Miss the free throw and the other guy has to rebound and attempt to shoot while being airborne. He gets three attempts to tip it in or it goes back to the other guy and free throws again. If the guy does manage to tip the ball in while being airborne then he shoots free throws and the other guy takes over rebounding. It's a fun game for two guys wanting to improve their skills.

Nodack, I think everybody here wants the best for the Suns. One of the ways some fans express that is with trades that they think will improve their favorite team. It's pretty harmless really isn't it if the Suns don't read them and act on them? If they bother you, just skip them. I like your presence and your energy.

Too bad nobody can actually win a battle of the bands. Maybe then we'd hear about more band trade scenarios.

I hear you Superbone. I think you are great. You are always positive and friendly to everyone and I would have to say the sort of spiritual leader of the site. Thanks for the positive vibes over the years. Everybody has their weird things I guess and my pet peeve is trade scenarios. I doubt if the Suns care what scenarios we make up and I doubt that any of them care enough to even read them. If it was one or two trade scenarios every once in awhile it wouldn't bother me near as much, but from my vantage point trade scenarios seem to be 70% of all chat here on every Suns thread for the last several years to the point it's like fingers on a chalk board after awhile to me. I just can't stand it. I wish I could ignore it. I wish there were non trade scenario Suns threads where people talk about the actual Suns team we have instead of the Suns team everybody wishes we had. I love talking real Suns chat, not fantasy Suns teams that will never ever happen like my fantasy team I just made up that would cost about $567,098,099.00 a year. Just ignore me. I am a homer.

I'm good for about 2-3 rants on this a year and then you don't have to hear from me anymore for awhile.

[Superbone]

I'm good for about 2-3 rants on this a year and then you don't have to hear from me anymore for awhile.

That's the problem.

BTW, that was a fun read.

[Indy]

but from my vantage point trade scenarios seem to be 70% of all chat here on every Suns thread for the last several years to the point it's like fingers on a chalk board after awhile to me.

Sorry, Dack, but you are crazy if you think 7 out of 10 posts here are about trade scenarios. It is probably closer to 7%.

[INFORMER]

I'm good for about 2-3 rants on this a year and then you don't have to hear from me anymore for awhile.

You call that a rant?!

As 'bone said, that was a good a read. Thanks for the reply. and you're right, I don't know you as a poster very well.

[Nodack]

I admit I don't frequent the place nearly as much as I used to. The few times I have ventured into Suns chat it was all trade talk. When the Suns went on their losing streak I stayed away on purpose. When they won four in a row I thought I would go to the Suns News thread and see what was going on and right off the bat it was a trade thread and I thought "You can't come here anytime and not see trade talk everywhere."

I know you are here like I used to be almost 24/7 and if you say it's 7% I will believe you Indy. In the few times I have come it has been around 70% from my perspective and as you know I have pretty much avoided the site for the last couple of years.

by Superbone » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:46 pm

Nodack wrote:
I'm good for about 2-3 rants on this a year and then you don't have to hear from me anymore for awhile.


That's the problem.

BTW, that was a fun read.

I am a pretty funny guy in real life. I am constantly making people laugh and 90% of the time it's totally unintentional. They laugh. I say what for? They say you were just being you. I never know how to take that.

[Indy]

The one or two times we met, I would have to agree you are a fun guy, Dack. Have a good night. I need my beauty sleep. Tomorrow is going to be a long day. Well I guess I mean today is. You know.