Around the League: Week 11 1/4-1/10

[Indy]

You could argue that KJ should be on the list, although I'm not sure who he would replace.

Well, I would take off Curry and Paul for now, and include KJ. Probably Payton too. But if he keeps it up, Curry will certainly make the list. As for Kidd, I know how he is thought of (and his triple doubles were amazing), but I don't remember him clearly making his team better.

[LazarusLong]

Kidd's longevity counts for something. And he developed a 3-point shot late in his career. He played at a fairly high level for quite a long time.

Payton was good, but he yapped a lot... some of his rep was based on bluster. And with all the talent that version of the Sonics had, they never got to the big show. In some ways, Dennis Johnson was a better player.

[Indy]

Pistol Pete? Or the Jerry West? I think either would be more deserving than Kidd. Jerry West is the Logo, after all. And Pete redefined what PGs could do.

[LazarusLong]

Maravich was a different breed. The ultimate combo guard who could embarrass you with his shooting AND his passing. West usually was an off guard, with guys like Gail Goodrich and Johnny Egan running as Robin to his Batman.

Nate Archibald was another guy who was a league leader in scoring and assists. Tiny looked for his shot first, but was a great player.

Lenny Wilkens was a very solid point guard in his day, also.

[Cap]

Kidd's longevity counts for something. And he developed a 3-point shot late in his career. He played at a fairly high level for quite a long time.

Payton was good, but he yapped a lot... some of his rep was based on bluster. And with all the talent that version of the Sonics had, they never got to the big show. In some ways, Dennis Johnson was a better player.

They did get to the big show and lost to the Bulls.

[Indy]

West usually was an off guard, with guys like Gail Goodrich and Johnny Egan running as Robin to his Batman.

West is listed as a PG on his wiki page, and as a PG/SG on his bb-ref page. I didn't get to see him play (except in small clips here and there) so I wasn't sure.

[LazarusLong]

Cap: Thanks for the update/correction.

Re: Maravich, my favorite NBA memory involved the Suns. The Jazz were in town to play Phoenix and five of the NO players piled into a cab to go to the game. The cab was T-boned and the guys riding received an assortment of injuries. Maybe two were game ready.

So, with perhaps eight healthy players, the Jazz were set for defeat. Except for the fact the Maravich, who arrived in another vehicle, had a monster game and scored 50+ points to lead the Jazz to a win.

[Furlanfufi]

I absolutely agree with Magic on position.
Isiah should be higher than Stockton and Curry (at least for now, I think Curry, barring injuries, will surpass Isiah).

I don't think CP3 belongs in that list either. Payton or KJ could be on that list.

[The Bobster]

West was a never really a pure PG, but he was probably more PG than SG by the end of his career.

I don't have a problem with the 10 players they included on their list, and I would have a hard time justifying putting KJ on the list over Frazier or Cousy when they both played more games and had more team success. Curry might be a bit to high, but he deserves to be on the list. He's one of the top two players in the league right now. Kidd had some severe shooting limitations and Nash had some major defensive ones.

I would go - 1. Magic, 2. Robertson, 3.Stockton, 4. Thomas, 5. Cousy, 6. Nash, 7. Curry, 8. Paul, 9. Kidd, 10. Frazier

KJ, Archibald, Payton, Wilkens and perhaps Westbrook would be next.

[The Bobster]

PS - I was never a huge Pistol Pete fan. He could do some amazing things on the court, but he was such a high-volume shooter that I think his scoring was overrated. Westphal was actually a better combo guard at his peak (which was pretty brief, about 1975-80).

[The Bobster]

Looking at their SF and SG lists I would go -

SG - 1. Jordan, 2. West, 3. Bryant, 4. Drexler, 5. Wade, 6. Gervin, 7. Iverson, 8. R.Allen, 9. Sam Jones, 10. Moncrief (Moncrief was one of those great two-way players who has just been forgotten about over the years. And I would have to leave off Reggie Miller and Earl Monroe, both were a little overrated for different reasons Miller because he was good, but not great, for a long time, Monroe because he would do the spectacular) Westphal and David Thompson were spectacular in shortened careers, Harden might be on the list eventually.

SF - 1. James, 2. Bird, 3. Baylor, 4. Erving, 5. Barry, 6. Pippen, 7. Durrant, 8. Havlicek, 9. Wilkins, 10. - Pierce

Their SF list was pretty good, I would just move Baylor up a little and drop worthy off the list. I think there's a pretty huge gap between the first 8 and the rest.

[LazarusLong]

The definition of PG vs. SG is sort of murky, especially when applied to Tiny Archibald and Iverson. Both dominated the ball, AI moreso flamboyantly. But they essentially were the same player.

Moncrief had five really good seasons, then a rash of injuries. His longevity/durability keeps him out of the top 10. I agree that, when healthy, he was a money player. Westphal was great with Phoenix, then got traded to the Sonics and the shit hit the fan. His five great years were at least equal to Moncrief's.

I might be inclined to put Hal Greer at #10. Tough as nails, constant as the Northern Star. Not flashy, but dependable as Ford F-100 for a very long time.



As for SF, where do we rank Walter Davis, with a career FG percentage of 52%?

[Mori Chu]

I always get annoyed when somebody makes a best PGs list and omits Gary Payton. He was just a monster. So good on both ends of the floor. Gotta be on the list.

[The Bobster]

I always get annoyed when somebody makes a best PGs list and omits Gary Payton. He was just a monster. So good on both ends of the floor. Gotta be on the list.

He's right there, but I don't know if he's better than say, Walt Frazier. But certainly could make the argument either way.

[The Bobster]

They're almost finished with their PF list (they haven't revealed the top two yet, but we all know who they are) -

1 Duncan, 2. Malone, 3. Nowitzki, 4. Barkley, 5. Garnett 6. McHale, 7. Pettit, 8. Hayes, 9. Gasol, 10. Rodman

I would probably flip-flop Pettit and McHale and maybe flip-flip Dirk and Barkley. Also I would drop Rodman and replace him with Dolph Schayes.

[LazarusLong]

Two names to consider: Dave DeBusschere and Gus Johnson.

When the Knicks traded Walt Bellamy for DeBusschere, the pieces fell into place and they won a championship. DeBusschere was a tough as nails defender.

Combine Larry Johnson's frame with David Thompson's hang time and you have Gus Johnson, at least for the early part of his career. After Honeycomb lost his "ups" he still was rugged rebounder and defender. And when he was playing, only Wilt was thought to be stronger.

Rodman is a tough case. Energizer Bunny on defense and rebounding. Little offense. Truckloads of attitude. But when he combined with Jordan and Pippen, it was the Triangle from Hell.

[The Bobster]

Just a wild guess at the centers -

1. Wilt, 2. Kareem, 3. Russell, 4. Hakeem, 5. Shaq, 6. Moses, 7. Robinson, 8. Mikan 9. Thurmond, 10. Ewing. With Reed, Gilmore, Unseld, Parish and Mutombo on the outside looking in.

[Ring_Wanted]

I missed most of Malone's career, but I'd put Dirk ahead of him.

[LazarusLong]

One who might have been: Maurice Stokes.

Another blast from the deep past: Vern Mikkelsen.

[LazarusLong]

Two hard-working Hawks (at one time or another): Paul Silas and Bill Bridges.