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Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:00 pm
by Indy
That play is one of the reasons I screamed at my TV so often. He is capable of doing that 3-4 times per game. He catches the ball out there on like 20% of our possessions, and NOBODY guards him like he is going to drive. Everyone guards him like he is going to hand the ball off.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:06 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Indy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:00 pm
That play is one of the reasons I screamed at my TV so often. He is capable of doing that 3-4 times per game. He catches the ball out there on like 20% of our possessions, and NOBODY guards him like he is going to drive. Everyone guards him like he is going to hand the ball off.
Yep. That kind of aggressive move to the rim is the biggest addition from him I've wanted to see for this coming season. I'm sure the coaches were telling him to go at Drummond in that situation. Drummond was an idiot to think he could stay in front of Ayton out there.
At least once per shift, Ayton will receive a pass at the top of the key with his defender playing off him, trying to protect the rim. He needs to develop a couple of moves to attack that opportunity, not just settle for the jump shot. It's the same tactic teams have been using against Giannis and the Bucks, and look what happened when Giannis took on the challenge of getting the ball to the rim.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:09 pm
by Superbone
Thanks AIG! Very illuminating. The article title:
Suns GM James Jones on Deandre Ayton contract extension talks: ‘We didn’t have real negotiations’
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:13 pm
by Superbone
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:06 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:00 pm
That play is one of the reasons I screamed at my TV so often. He is capable of doing that 3-4 times per game. He catches the ball out there on like 20% of our possessions, and NOBODY guards him like he is going to drive. Everyone guards him like he is going to hand the ball off.
Yep. That kind of aggressive move to the rim is the biggest addition from him I've wanted to see for this coming season. I'm sure the coaches were telling him to go at Drummond in that situation. Drummond was an idiot to think he could stay in front of Ayton out there.
At least once per shift, Ayton will receive a pass at the top of the key with his defender playing off him, trying to protect the rim. He needs to develop a couple of moves to attack that opportunity, not just settle for the jump shot. It's the same tactic teams have been using against Giannis and the Bucks, and look what happened when Giannis took on the challenge of getting the ball to the rim.
I liked this quote at the end and it sums up how I feel:
I get that Suns fans are reluctant to trust Sarver and give him the benefit of the doubt, and that’s okay too! I’m not saying you should give Sarver the benefit of the doubt.
It’s James Jones who’s earned the benefit of the doubt. Through trades, acquisitions, and draft choices that are head-scratching in the moment, but led Phoenix to the NBA Finals just 100 days ago. He’s absolutely earned the benefit of the doubt and I’m giving it to him. Full stop.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:21 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
That's essentially the biggest point I was trying to make yesterday. I trust James Jones and I think he has full authority over these decisions.
We just get caught up in the "Is Ayton worth the max?" debate because all we can do is pretend to be James Jones.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:23 pm
by Drewsprocket
So am I reading this right? Ayton in his refusal to discuss anything less than full max likely turned down the same offer he is going to sign next summer? If so, any injury this season jeopardizes this.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:36 pm
by Indy
Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:23 pm
So am I reading this right? Ayton in his refusal to discuss anything less than full max likely turned down the same offer he is going to sign next summer? If so, any injury this season jeopardizes this.
Yes. But Ayton's agent is either saving face with his client (or maybe telling the truth) when they say Jones never technically offered them the 3 or 4 year max.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:08 pm
by SunsRIt
The simple fact of the matter is Ayton is now in a contract year. He needs to go to the out this season and leave no doubt he is a max player. Time for him to put up or shut up. In his career he has put up less than 50 games that warrant a max contract. Many of those happened to occur in the playoffs. I would argue that the last 3-4 games in the playoffs we saw the same old Ayton, low drive and low enthusiasm. I have stated ad nauseum that big men take time to develop(even giving examples of some of the most dominant big men in NBA history).
The time for excuses is over. He needs to be DominAyton this year. If he does that he will get the contract he wants.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
by ShelC
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:08 pm
The simple fact of the matter is Ayton is now in a contract year. He needs to go to the out this season and leave no doubt he is a max player. Time for him to put up or shut up. In his career he has put up less than 50 games that warrant a max contract. Many of those happened to occur in the playoffs. I would argue that the last 3-4 games in the playoffs we saw the same old Ayton, low drive and low enthusiasm. I have stated ad nauseum that big men take time to develop(even giving examples of some of the most dominant big men in NBA history).
The time for excuses is over. He needs to be DominAyton this year. If he does that he will get the contract he wants.
This is what I've been wondering since yesterday...is there anything DA could do that would make the FO/Sarver change their position and give him a full 5 year max (whatever that number actually is)? If we go back to the Finals and win with DA playing the exact same role as he did this year, would the Suns pony up? What if something clicks and he starts really dominating inside, finishing strong, initiating contact and getting to the line but we end up losing in the 2nd round?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:54 pm
by Indy
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:08 pm
The simple fact of the matter is Ayton is now in a contract year. He needs to go to the out this season and leave no doubt he is a max player. Time for him to put up or shut up. In his career he has put up less than 50 games that warrant a max contract. Many of those happened to occur in the playoffs. I would argue that the last 3-4 games in the playoffs we saw the same old Ayton, low drive and low enthusiasm. I have stated ad nauseum that big men take time to develop(even giving examples of some of the most dominant big men in NBA history).
The time for excuses is over. He needs to be DominAyton this year. If he does that he will get the contract he wants.
This is what I've been wondering since yesterday...is there anything DA could do that would make the FO/Sarver change their position and give him a full 5 year max (whatever that number actually is)? If we go back to the Finals and win with DA playing the exact same role as he did this year, would the Suns pony up? What if something clicks and he starts really dominating inside, finishing strong, initiating contact and getting to the line but we end up losing in the 2nd round?
I am putting a lot of stock into the theory that they want to keep their options open on acquiring a guy on a designated rookie max extension contract. They have to have someone in mind that they think fits with this team really well, that is on that contract right now, and will want out or the team is willing to move. But i am struggling to think of who that guys is, because it would have to be a "James Jones guy" and I am not sure KAT is that.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:03 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I think that's a bit of convenient circumstance to point out in this situation. It's like the GM who's stock piling future draft picks on a team that wins less than 30 games a season for the better part of a decade. Yeah, we might be poor (in wins), but look at all these lottery tickets I've accumulated!
I'm comfortable saying I think Ayton's inconsistent effort is the biggest reason they didn't offer him the 5-year/$172M max.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:10 pm
by ShelC
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:23 pm
by Indy
Does Gumbo actually report anything?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:27 pm
by Cap
Can’t wait to hear DA singing an offer sheet.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:35 pm
by Suns_Dave
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:27 pm
Can’t wait to hear DA singing an offer sheet.
He projects as a high tenor, though he considers himself more of a baritone.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 am
by Oatmeal
If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:29 am
by ShelC
Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 am
If they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside.
Ironically, we've been catching heat from a lot of fans/media over the Shamet deal while choosing not to max DA.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:46 am
by The Bobster
I guess because Ayton hasn't signed they're not supposed to sign anybody?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:52 am
by virtual9mm
Fascinating how perceptions have shifted after the James Jones interview with The Athletic.
I'm a bit disappointed how Bill Duffy has become the guy that bargains this way.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:15 am
by ShelC
Hardcore fans close to the team understand the situation far better than national media/outside fans. On the outside, it's same ol' Sarver/Suns not maxing their #1 pick/big man who just helped lead them to the Finals.