Markieff Morris Watch

[OE32]

If we keep him and he continues to put up the numbers he's been putting up under Watson, we could be sitting in a pretty solid position on draft day. Hardaway Jr. was traded for a pick in the teens last year. Keef should be more valuable than that.

[Shabazz]

He'll also likely have more value after the assault charges are resolved on way or another.

*vomits*

[Nodack]

"Bite, chew, swallow, repeat".

[TOO]

"Bite, chew, swallow, repeat".

Yup.

[Indy]

Guys, this season is toast anyway. What's the god damn hurry? Waiting until Summer makes no difference at all now. If it means a better offer it is worth watching Markieff for 30 more games. If it doesn't then you don't lose anything except more games which is actually helpful at this point.

Thank you. I think we are in a strong position. We are going to suck Kieff or not. Moving him today or next summer isn't going to make that much difference. Other teams are fighting for playoff position and more desperate. I personally think not much will happen and then at the last second the flood gates will open and several big trades will happen almost simultaneously. I think we can afford to be patient.

"You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run."

So just to be clear, you think his value goes up after teams are no longer fighting for playoff position? And you think letting a cancer not only stay around your team, but be heralded as a leader, is the same as getting rid of him now?

And to be even clearer, I am not being rhetorical. I really don't understand the logic and want to try to see where you guys are coming from.

[Indy]

He'll also likely have more value after the assault charges are resolved on way or another.

*vomits*

I can't see a realistic way in which that will affect his playing time.

[Shabazz]

He'll also likely have more value after the assault charges are resolved on way or another.

*vomits*

I can't see a realistic way in which that will affect his playing time.

I mean that teams will be more inclined to trade him without a pending prison sentence hanging over his head.

[Superbone]

Where's 'Bazz when you need him?!

Still here. Trying a different approach over the next few days, but if he's still here come Thursday afternoon.... there's gonna be some questions that are asked in some pretty large fonts up in this bitch.

LOL!

[Superbone]

Guys, this season is toast anyway. What's the god damn hurry? Waiting until Summer makes no difference at all now. If it means a better offer it is worth watching Markieff for 30 more games. If it doesn't then you don't lose anything except more games which is actually helpful at this point.

Thank you. I think we are in a strong position. We are going to suck Kieff or not. Moving him today or next summer isn't going to make that much difference. Other teams are fighting for playoff position and more desperate. I personally think not much will happen and then at the last second the flood gates will open and several big trades will happen almost simultaneously. I think we can afford to be patient.

"You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run."

That's like saying, it's OK to remove the cancer in six months. We don't have to do it now.

[carey]

Guys, this season is toast anyway. What's the god damn hurry? Waiting until Summer makes no difference at all now. If it means a better offer it is worth watching Markieff for 30 more games. If it doesn't then you don't lose anything except more games which is actually helpful at this point.

Thank you. I think we are in a strong position. We are going to suck Kieff or not. Moving him today or next summer isn't going to make that much difference. Other teams are fighting for playoff position and more desperate. I personally think not much will happen and then at the last second the flood gates will open and several big trades will happen almost simultaneously. I think we can afford to be patient.

"You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run."

That's like saying, it's OK to remove the cancer in six months. We don't have to do it now.

Worst analogy ever, 'bone. He isn't doing any more damage than he has already done. The season is lost. There is no grand culture change coming with 2 months left if we just ship him off for scraps.

[iLLmatic]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

[Indy]

Guys, this season is toast anyway. What's the god damn hurry? Waiting until Summer makes no difference at all now. If it means a better offer it is worth watching Markieff for 30 more games. If it doesn't then you don't lose anything except more games which is actually helpful at this point.

Thank you. I think we are in a strong position. We are going to suck Kieff or not. Moving him today or next summer isn't going to make that much difference. Other teams are fighting for playoff position and more desperate. I personally think not much will happen and then at the last second the flood gates will open and several big trades will happen almost simultaneously. I think we can afford to be patient.

"You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run."

That's like saying, it's OK to remove the cancer in six months. We don't have to do it now.

Worst analogy ever, 'bone. He isn't doing any more damage than he has already done. The season is lost. There is no grand culture change coming with 2 months left if we just ship him off for scraps.

Rip off the damn bandage, even if you lose some skin. The diddling around when they make bad decisions is one of the things killing this organization. I am OK with bad decisions from time to time. But you have to quickly identify it was a bad decision, and move on as quickly as possible. Don't wait to fix your mistakes, hoping the mistake will look like less of a mistake the longer it is there. It won't.

[that rant was not directed at you, carey, even if it was directed at you]

[carey]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

Yes. Especially if the return is much better in a few months. You guys wanting to settle for a 2nd rounder or an expiring contract perplex me. He has more value than that.

[Indy]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

Yes. Especially if the return is much better in a few months. You guys wanting to settle for a 2nd rounder or an expiring contract perplex me. He has more value than that.

I still don't think his value goes up after the teams jockeying for playoff positions are no longer jockeying. You need someone in a desperate situation. If you think about it too long, you realize he isn't worth it.

[iLLmatic]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

Yes. Especially if the return is much better in a few months. You guys wanting to settle for a 2nd rounder or an expiring contract perplex me. He has more value than that.

Funny. The organization had that same mentality going into the season and he's done nothing but alienate the fan base and make the organization more of a laughing stock than it already was.

Coro has reported that the value is pretty much going to remain the same for Markieff. And I don't think anyone is settling for a 2nd rounder or expiring contract when it has been reported that we can get a 1st round pick for him right now. McD wants more than that though, so instead of ridding the team of this problem he'll hold onto him longer. I hope for the sake of him that it was worth it and we get a coup for Markieff, we both know that's not going to happen though. Take the 1st round pick and move on, Jesus.

[Gladiator]

It seems as if McD is playing a game of chicken with the rest of the league, trying to get the best deal possible. That's fine as long as any deals that have been offered already stay on the table, and he doesn't metaphorically get hit by the oncoming car.
Sadly, all we can do is set back and wait til the deadline passes and see what we've got after that.

[pickle]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

Yes. Especially if the return is much better in a few months. You guys wanting to settle for a 2nd rounder or an expiring contract perplex me. He has more value than that.

I still don't think his value goes up after the teams jockeying for playoff positions are no longer jockeying. You need someone in a desperate situation. If you think about it too long, you realize he isn't worth it.

I get the playoff hunt pressure, but that's assuming that people see Markieff as a savior that could possibly put them over the hump. The other possibility is that, these teams who are on the brink of the playoffs or looking at a deeper playoff push than they have experienced over the last couple of years, are getting there with an improvement in chemistry or are facing chemistry issues that they are looking to fix, in which case the risks of taking on Markieff might even be heightened. Just read somewhere that Toronto pulled out of the picture, even though they and Washington seem to be best described by your scenario, Indy.

On the other hand, I can see a scenario where if Kieff doesn't continue to do stupid stuff and puts up decent stats for the remainder of the season, his contract may seem much much more valuable once the crazy summer sinks in a bit. I mean, I'm reading that Ryan Anderson is looking at a possible 20 mil contract. I mean I quite like Anderson but for a guy that averages about 15/6 who doesn't really defend... next to him Kieff with some semblance of level-headedness and with whatever sentencing behind him could look extremely appealing.

So yeah... while I'd like to see him gone and would be ecstatic if we got a first rounder back, I'm not sure I'd move him for a paper clip just for the sake of it. I'm with Carey on this, it's not like this franchise can go much lower than it already is, in terms of chemistry.

[pickle]

Funny. The organization had that same mentality going into the season and he's done nothing but alienate the fan base and make the organization more of a laughing stock than it already was.

Coro has reported that the value is pretty much going to remain the same for Markieff. And I don't think anyone is settling for a 2nd rounder or expiring contract when it has been reported that we can get a 1st round pick for him right now. McD wants more than that though, so instead of ridding the team of this problem he'll hold onto him longer. I hope for the sake of him that it was worth it and we get a coup for Markieff, we both know that's not going to happen though. Take the 1st round pick and move on, Jesus.

When I first read the report that the Suns are looking for more than a first rounder, I actually said out loud "holy fuck" in the middle of the office and had to explain to my colleague that nothing actually went wrong, I was just being a regular ol' (suffering) Suns fan.

Having said that, we don't really know that there was actually an offer of a first rounder for him... It could have just been us asking for the sky in this. Looking at possible scenarios for Kieff, outside of Toronto and Washington and maybe Cleveland, who else is there that desperately wants an incremental upgrade at the four? Especially now that Detroit and Orlando are out of the equation?

[INFORMER]

Also, what's with these rumors that we've been offered a 1st-rounder for Kieff and have said "no"? How can they do that? They will never get a better offer than that for garbage like Kieff. They should have taken that deal yesterday. If they really sit on this trade and keep him all spring when they could have had a 1st-round pick for him, I think I'll explode.

Most likely a last first rounder, which are basically worthless.

Isn't that what they got for IT?

And IT's an all star and a waaaaaaay better player than Kieff plus IT isn't cancerous or have issues.

IT is a midget chucker who puts up enough stats to get noticed. Up until this year, no one thought IT was better than Kieff, and next year no one will either. You pay a premium for size. IT gets "cute little guy" votes for the all-star game.

Maybe I am overstating it, but not by much.

You are overstating it. First, Thomas is legit. It's not like he is putting up stats on a lotto team. Second, Kieff doesn't offer any of the benefits of a "big." He's an inconsistent and mediocre rebounder, he doesn't offer rim protection, doesn't defend well one-on-one, and isn't really a presence in the paint on the offensive end. Moreover, he isn't a true stretch 4 because he isn't a dangerous three point shooter; he can hit the shot, but not enough to move the needle for a team's offense.

[Indy]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

Yes. Especially if the return is much better in a few months. You guys wanting to settle for a 2nd rounder or an expiring contract perplex me. He has more value than that.

I still don't think his value goes up after the teams jockeying for playoff positions are no longer jockeying. You need someone in a desperate situation. If you think about it too long, you realize he isn't worth it.

I get the playoff hunt pressure, but that's assuming that people see Markieff as a savior that could possibly put them over the hump. The other possibility is that, these teams who are on the brink of the playoffs or looking at a deeper playoff push than they have experienced over the last couple of years, are getting there with an improvement in chemistry or are facing chemistry issues that they are looking to fix, in which case the risks of taking on Markieff might even be heightened. Just read somewhere that Toronto pulled out of the picture, even though they and Washington seem to be best described by your scenario, Indy.

On the other hand, I can see a scenario where if Kieff doesn't continue to do stupid stuff and puts up decent stats for the remainder of the season, his contract may seem much much more valuable once the crazy summer sinks in a bit. I mean, I'm reading that Ryan Anderson is looking at a possible 20 mil contract. I mean I quite like Anderson but for a guy that averages about 15/6 who doesn't really defend... next to him Kieff with some semblance of level-headedness and with whatever sentencing behind him could look extremely appealing.

So yeah... while I'd like to see him gone and would be ecstatic if we got a first rounder back, I'm not sure I'd move him for a paper clip just for the sake of it. I'm with Carey on this, it's not like this franchise can go much lower than it already is, in terms of chemistry.

The past is a great predictor of the future. But for some reason we like to pretend things will change.

The "I'm sure he'll be worth more later" argument is built on a shaky foundation of assuming Keef will behave like a good citizen on and off the court.

So I think his value is only going down.