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Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
by Split T
I’m a little worried about our C rotation come playoff time, but I’m not worried that it doesn’t include Ayton. For all the worrying about our defense with Nurkic, we’ve been a top 10 defense so far. His shooting and finishing has been bad, but it’ll get better just by simple regression to the mean and by playing more with the Big <=3 when they get healthy.
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:12 pm
by Superbone
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:42 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:20 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:04 pm
I guess there are others also interested in how Ayton is doing in his new environment
when he has a stat line that can easily be criticized by those who didn't watch the game:
Fixed it for ya.
You’re not wrong Jeremy…I didn’t watch…I am curious about the finish though.. what are your thoughts on what happened there?
Maybe he fixed it for you but not for me. I watched this game. Ayton was same old Ayton. Shrunk down the stretch while JJJ and Bane took over.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:15 pm
by Shabazz
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I’m a little worried about our C rotation come playoff time, but I’m not worried that it doesn’t include Ayton. For all the worrying about our defense with Nurkic, we’ve been a top 10 defense so far. His shooting and finishing has been bad, but it’ll get better just by simple regression to the mean and by playing more with the Big <=3 when they get healthy.
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Nurkic’s finishing and decision making in the paint have been freaking brutal. That’s my biggest concern right now.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:17 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I've watched parts or all of every game he's played. He's the same guy he's always been. I give him credit when he plays well and mock him when he doesn't.
I was riding in a car with a Blazers fan last Saturday and he had the first Memphis/Portland playing on his phone. Ayton went soft to the rim with a layup attempt on fast break that was easily blocked and I just told my friend that he'd better get used to seeing that stuff.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:18 pm
by Split T
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:15 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I’m a little worried about our C rotation come playoff time, but I’m not worried that it doesn’t include Ayton. For all the worrying about our defense with Nurkic, we’ve been a top 10 defense so far. His shooting and finishing has been bad, but it’ll get better just by simple regression to the mean and by playing more with the Big <=3 when they get healthy.
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Nurkic’s finishing and decision making in the paint have been freaking brutal. That’s my biggest concern right now.
Ya…it has been bad. We are asking him to play a different role than he has in the past and he’s doing it without all the weapons. I’m going to wait until we see the full picture before I make any conclusions. Preseason, I know, but it looked very good with everyone healthy.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:51 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:42 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:20 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:04 pm
I guess there are others also interested in how Ayton is doing in his new environment
when he has a stat line that can easily be criticized by those who didn't watch the game:
Fixed it for ya.
You’re not wrong Jeremy…I didn’t watch…I am curious about the finish though.. what are your thoughts on what happened there?
It was mainly a lack of offense, which is what Chauncey said after the game. Nobody could buy a hoop, not even Ayton--lots of good looks and in-and-out shots. Ayton missed his last three attempts in the 4th.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:03 pm
by JeremyG
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:17 pm
I've watched parts or all of every game he's played. He's the same guy he's always been. I give him credit when he plays well and mock him when he doesn't.
I was riding in a car with a Blazers fan last Saturday and he had the first Memphis/Portland playing on his phone. Ayton went soft to the rim with a layup attempt on fast break that was easily blocked and I just told my friend that he'd better get used to seeing that stuff.
You enjoy watching this more?
MISS Nurkic 2' Dunk
04:15
MISS Nurkic 2' Layup
03:53
Nurkic REBOUND (Off:1 Def:2)
03:52
MISS Nurkic 3' Reverse Layup
03:50
All within 25 seconds
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:04 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:18 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:15 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I’m a little worried about our C rotation come playoff time, but I’m not worried that it doesn’t include Ayton. For all the worrying about our defense with Nurkic, we’ve been a top 10 defense so far. His shooting and finishing has been bad, but it’ll get better just by simple regression to the mean and by playing more with the Big <=3 when they get healthy.
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Nurkic’s finishing and decision making in the paint have been freaking brutal. That’s my biggest concern right now.
Ya…it has been bad. We are asking him to play a different role than he has in the past and he’s doing it without all the weapons. I’m going to wait until we see the full picture before I make any conclusions. Preseason, I know, but it looked very good with everyone healthy.
Before the season you said he was our 4th best player. So shouldn't he be our 2nd best player now (with Book and Beal out)?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:11 pm
by Mori Chu
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Those numbers can be deceptive. Eubanks have been playing great, but he's playing mostly against backups. If you start him or let him finish games, he'll be playing against the other team's starters and best players, and he may not be as efficient or productive. But I agree that he's doing really well to start the season. Big fan of that signing.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:22 pm
by JeremyG
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:55 am
Detroit has a nice young core. It really all depends on if Cade can pop and become an all-star type leader for them. Duren is what we imagined Ayton to be and Ausar looks promising.
Yeah it's too bad Ayton couldn't even average 14 and 11 in his second season.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:21 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:04 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:18 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:15 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I’m a little worried about our C rotation come playoff time, but I’m not worried that it doesn’t include Ayton. For all the worrying about our defense with Nurkic, we’ve been a top 10 defense so far. His shooting and finishing has been bad, but it’ll get better just by simple regression to the mean and by playing more with the Big <=3 when they get healthy.
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Nurkic’s finishing and decision making in the paint have been freaking brutal. That’s my biggest concern right now.
Ya…it has been bad. We are asking him to play a different role than he has in the past and he’s doing it without all the weapons. I’m going to wait until we see the full picture before I make any conclusions. Preseason, I know, but it looked very good with everyone healthy.
Before the season you said he was our 4th best player. So shouldn't he be our 2nd best player now (with Book and Beal out)?
I kinda put him there by default as the 4th starter. He’s definitely behind EG and Allen for me. So he stays 4th when they enter the starting lineup.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:28 pm
by Split T
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:11 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Those numbers can be deceptive. Eubanks have been playing great, but he's playing mostly against backups. If you start him or let him finish games, he'll be playing against the other team's starters and best players, and he may not be as efficient or productive. But I agree that he's doing really well to start the season. Big fan of that signing.
Some of it is that for sure, but he’s part of 4 of our 5 best 5-man lineups via net rating…a few are small sample size for sure(really all of them), but not all are bench units. Here they are:
+63 in 4 minutes: Gordon, Booker, Okogie, KD, Eubanks
+55 in 9 minutes: Gordon, Allen, Okogie, KD, Eubanks
+37 in 9 minutes: Goodwin, Allen, Okogie, KD, Eubanks
+34 in 17 minutes: Goodwin, Yuta, Little, KD, Eubanks
Maybe it’s just because he’s playing with KD a lot, haha.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:18 pm
by Mori Chu
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:35 pm
by JeremyG
Deandre Ayton:
#1 rebounds per game
#5 steals per game
#3 Defensive rating
#1 Defensive Win Shares
#1 Defensive rebound Pct
#1 Total rebound Pct
#4 Steal Pct
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:35 am
by Split T
He’s getting a lot of rebounds and steals…The rebounds should be sustainable…I doubt the steals are…but maybe he’s made a major shift in how he plays. His steal rate in Phoenix was 1.1…he’s at 3.7 right now. Seems like a sample size error, but we’ll see.
He’s also somehow setting career lows in free throw rate(in fact only 9 guys in the nba have a lower rate and 6 are guards…3 forwards). He also has careers lows in field goal attempts, usage rate, and a career high in turnover rate. Plus barely above his career low in TS%
It’s a mixed bag for sure. But it does seem like he’s quite engaged on the defensive end at least…and the boards.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:00 am
by Flagrant Fowl
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:35 am
He’s also somehow setting career lows in free throw rate(in fact only 9 guys in the nba have a lower rate and 6 are guards…3 forwards). He also has careers lows in field goal attempts, usage rate, and a career high in turnover rate. Plus barely above his career low in TS%
It’s a mixed bag for sure. But it does seem like he’s quite engaged on the defensive end at least…and the boards.
So it seems it was never about offensive opportunity to keep him engaged, and it's always been up to him to more consistently play hard.
Sounds like what a lot of us said for the two previous seasons when his super fans wanted to create every excuse possible for him when he loafed around.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:18 am
by Split T
Ya we’ll see how long he stays engaged if he keeps getting 8 shots a game
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:31 am
by virtual9mm
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:35 am
He’s getting a lot of rebounds and steals…The rebounds should be sustainable…I doubt the steals are…but maybe he’s made a major shift in how he plays. His steal rate in Phoenix was 1.1…he’s at 3.7 right now. Seems like a sample size error, but we’ll see.
He’s also somehow setting career lows in free throw rate(in fact only 9 guys in the nba have a lower rate and 6 are guards…3 forwards). He also has careers lows in field goal attempts, usage rate, and a career high in turnover rate. Plus barely above his career low in TS%
It’s a mixed bag for sure. But it does seem like he’s quite engaged on the defensive end at least…and the boards.
Would have been the perfect Ayton for the Suns, in all honesty. Garbage man on offense, all nba defender.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:32 am
by virtual9mm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:15 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:09 pm
I’m a little worried about our C rotation come playoff time, but I’m not worried that it doesn’t include Ayton. For all the worrying about our defense with Nurkic, we’ve been a top 10 defense so far. His shooting and finishing has been bad, but it’ll get better just by simple regression to the mean and by playing more with the Big <=3 when they get healthy.
I was looking at some lineup data this morning and I am intrigued that Eubanks has some pretty good numbers. Maybe he ends up being the answer. I would feel better if we could find someone to trust as a small ball 5. KBD and Metu seem to be the options on the roster right now.
Nurkic’s finishing and decision making in the paint have been freaking brutal. That’s my biggest concern right now.
Why are we surprised? The Portland fans told us so. Keep him in the high post as a shooter and passer.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:36 am
by Split T
He’s been even worse than he was for Portland