Markieff Morris Watch

[INFORMER]

So your logic is, "the damage is done, what harm could it cause to keep him around another 2 months?". Flawless.

Yes. Especially if the return is much better in a few months. You guys wanting to settle for a 2nd rounder or an expiring contract perplex me. He has more value than that.

Funny. The organization had that same mentality going into the season and he's done nothing but alienate the fan base and make the organization more of a laughing stock than it already was.

Exactly. All we heard in the offseason was, "why trade Kieff now, his value is at an all-time low? let him play and increase his value!" How has that worked out?

[SDC]

Why not?! He has a such an awesome contract and he is sooooooooooo talented.

maybe then not interested in giving up 2 first rounders.

[SDC]

Suns asking for so much for Kieff. I think pretty soon other GMs are just gonna quit even communicating with McD because his offers are garbage.

Does McD think he's smarter than all other GMs in the league or something?

look at my sig.

[SDC]

Also, what's with these rumors that we've been offered a 1st-rounder for Kieff and have said "no"? How can they do that? They will never get a better offer than that for garbage like Kieff. They should have taken that deal yesterday. If they really sit on this trade and keep him all spring when they could have had a 1st-round pick for him, I think I'll explode.

whose fault is this? mcdo or sarver?

[iLLmatic]

whose fault is this? mcdo or sarver?

Babby

[SDC]

whose fault is this? mcdo or sarver?

Babby

coming from a diehard mcdo supporter...

[UglyTruth]

Also, what's with these rumors that we've been offered a 1st-rounder for Kieff and have said "no"? How can they do that? They will never get a better offer than that for garbage like Kieff. They should have taken that deal yesterday. If they really sit on this trade and keep him all spring when they could have had a 1st-round pick for him, I think I'll explode.

Most likely a last first rounder, which are basically worthless.

Isn't that what they got for IT?

And IT's an all star and a waaaaaaay better player than Kieff plus IT isn't cancerous or have issues.

IT is a midget chucker who puts up enough stats to get noticed. Up until this year, no one thought IT was better than Kieff, and next year no one will either. You pay a premium for size. IT gets "cute little guy" votes for the all-star game.

Maybe I am overstating it, but not by much.

Yea you are overstating it. He's carrying the Celtics on his 5'8 back to the playoffs. If any Celtics fan saw your post I'd imagine they 'd slap the hell out of you.

You call IT a chucker as if Kieff is efficient or something...no, no he's not. Plus like I said, IT doesn't have the baggage that Chief Kieff does.

If the Suns offered Kieff for IT to Boston you don't think Ainge would literally die laughing?

[pickle]

I get the playoff hunt pressure, but that's assuming that people see Markieff as a savior that could possibly put them over the hump. The other possibility is that, these teams who are on the brink of the playoffs or looking at a deeper playoff push than they have experienced over the last couple of years, are getting there with an improvement in chemistry or are facing chemistry issues that they are looking to fix, in which case the risks of taking on Markieff might even be heightened. Just read somewhere that Toronto pulled out of the picture, even though they and Washington seem to be best described by your scenario, Indy.

On the other hand, I can see a scenario where if Kieff doesn't continue to do stupid stuff and puts up decent stats for the remainder of the season, his contract may seem much much more valuable once the crazy summer sinks in a bit. I mean, I'm reading that Ryan Anderson is looking at a possible 20 mil contract. I mean I quite like Anderson but for a guy that averages about 15/6 who doesn't really defend... next to him Kieff with some semblance of level-headedness and with whatever sentencing behind him could look extremely appealing.

So yeah... while I'd like to see him gone and would be ecstatic if we got a first rounder back, I'm not sure I'd move him for a paper clip just for the sake of it. I'm with Carey on this, it's not like this franchise can go much lower than it already is, in terms of chemistry.

The past is a great predictor of the future. But for some reason we like to pretend things will change.

The "I'm sure he'll be worth more later" argument is built on a shaky foundation of assuming Keef will behave like a good citizen on and off the court.

So I think his value is only going down.

Ok, I guess some clarification is needed. I'm not really rooting for us to hold onto Markieff. I've been tired of his performance for some time now. All I'm saying in that post was that the playoff hunt teams may not value him as much as we think. Nor do I think that his value will necessarily improve for the remainder of the season, but some in the front office might see that as a possibility, and I can understand that line of logic, even if I don't agree with it. My other point was that, the salaries that will surely fly around this summer will be so crazy, that eventually value contracts will be the favor of the day again. For this same line of reasoning, I could see us hanging on to Knight until summer too.

For the record, I think it's absolutely retarded that we would seriously ask for more than one first rounder for Markieff. For much of the season I'd felt that a couple of second rounders with at least one being in the 30s range would be more than enough for me to move on from him.

[iLLmatic]

whose fault is this? mcdo or sarver?

Babby

coming from a diehard mcdo supporter...

You haven't been paying attention...

[INFORMER]

Sam Amick saying firsts are being offered for Markieff:

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/699792555660062721

[carey]

He just took that from Woj who said it this morning.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

We like to talk rebuilding, but we don't have the stomach to really hit rock bottom.

If Markieff had been traded already for a bag of chips, and then he started to play better (likely he will, as seen after Hornacek's departure) we would start bitching about how we got raped and so. I'm with Carey on this, what's the gain on a firesale? Every game we lose because of him, is in our favor, the lockerroom is already lost, nothing is going to improve dramatically over his departure, and if it does, it could cost us ping pong balls. And our reputation is already tarnished, it will get better only as time goes by, specially if we start winning, people always forget when winning starts. It's just that, it has been a long time.

If we already sunk the season waiting for his value to come up, what's the benefit to quit that strategy right now? To send a message? No way it would be louder that the message already send over and over during the season. To cut our loses? We already lost the season. Because we hate the guy? Worst reason to make a move, it clouds your judgement.

There is minimal gain between trade him for a second rounder today or during the offseason, while in the other hand, we can wait for a better return by himself, or packed with Knight.

[SDC]

Sam Amick saying firsts are being offered for Markieff:

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/699792555660062721

you dont need a first once you get offered a good young player for keef.

[pickle]

I just think that, after the initial round of crazy contracts are handed out, the dollar figure on Knight and Kieff's deals won't look so bad, and they would become more attractive as trade pieces.

[Indy]

We like to talk rebuilding, but we don't have the stomach to really hit rock bottom.

If Markieff had been traded already for a bag of chips, and then he started to play better (likely he will, as seen after Hornacek's departure) we would start bitching about how we got raped and so. I'm with Carey on this, what's the gain on a firesale? Every game we lose because of him, is in our favor, the lockerroom is already lost, nothing is going to improve dramatically over his departure, and if it does, it could cost us ping pong balls. And our reputation is already tarnished, it will get better only as time goes by, specially if we start winning, people always forget when winning starts. It's just that, it has been a long time.

If we already sunk the season waiting for his value to come up, what's the benefit to quit that strategy right now? To send a message? No way it would be louder that the message already send over and over during the season. To cut our loses? We already lost the season. Because we hate the guy? Worst reason to make a move, it clouds your judgement.

There is minimal gain between trade him for a second rounder today or during the offseason, while in the other hand, we can wait for a better return by himself, or packed with Knight.

Pretty sure we hit rock bottom already. We have never been out of the playoffs this long, and it is shaping up to be the worse finish since our inaugural one.

Also, do we really want Keef in the locker room with Booker any longer than he has to be? It can't be good. It's the sunk cost fallacy we are clinging to.

[Nodack]

I want Kieff moved as bad as anybody else. Nothing is guaranteed. There is no magic answer. Get rid of him today for next to nothing or hold out for the trade deadline and hope somebody bites for a decent price? If I paid X amount for him then I want to get X in return for him. We are talking millions of dollars, not small change. It's worth getting right.

He is damaged goods but, is capable of putting up good numbers when not pissed off at the team as we have seen. He could be good for a team at a good price or he could be a cancer. There is always somebody willing to gamble on a risk. We took on Penny Hardaway hoping he could come back from injury didn't we? It turned out to be a bust but we took that chance. Nash was outed from Dallas because he was old and breaking down. Phx took him and he became MVP and played several more All Star years. Any pick in the draft is a risk. Greg Oden

I just think the Suns can afford to wait out the trade deadline and if he doesn't get moved it isn't the end of the world. The gamble could be worth the wait. He was playing his cards right and playing hard and putting up good numbers before the All Star break. Too bad he had to F it all up by going after Goodman and flipping off the fan on the last game. Maybe nobody bites and we have to keep him until Summer. It would suck but, in the end we probably get one more ping pong ball, which is probably the most important thing. We have future picks all over the place coming anyway. We suck but, we are positioned to make some waves in the near future.

Let's just hope they get it right by some freak accident.

[Sunsfan4life]

We like to talk rebuilding, but we don't have the stomach to really hit rock bottom.

If Markieff had been traded already for a bag of chips, and then he started to play better (likely he will, as seen after Hornacek's departure) we would start bitching about how we got raped and so. I'm with Carey on this, what's the gain on a firesale? Every game we lose because of him, is in our favor, the lockerroom is already lost, nothing is going to improve dramatically over his departure, and if it does, it could cost us ping pong balls. And our reputation is already tarnished, it will get better only as time goes by, specially if we start winning, people always forget when winning starts. It's just that, it has been a long time.

If we already sunk the season waiting for his value to come up, what's the benefit to quit that strategy right now? To send a message? No way it would be louder that the message already send over and over during the season. To cut our loses? We already lost the season. Because we hate the guy? Worst reason to make a move, it clouds your judgement.

There is minimal gain between trade him for a second rounder today or during the offseason, while in the other hand, we can wait for a better return by himself, or packed with Knight.

Preach bro.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Pretty sure we hit rock bottom already. We have never been out of the playoffs this long, and it is shaping up to be the worse finish since our inaugural one.

Also, do we really want Keef in the locker room with Booker any longer than he has to be? It can't be good. It's the sunk cost fallacy we are clinging to.

Several times, dating back to the Dragic debacle last tradeline, I have felt that we hit it, but this Front office manages to find new lows to dig for. So, hang on, the ride is far from over, as removing Kieff won't solve all of our issues, including coach Watson (Porter deja vu anyone?)

We already saw what the Morri did to Goodwin, so I'm obviously worried for Booker, but since the kid has managed this far to shine among all the shit, I'm willing to push it a little further. It seems that Chandler has taken him under his wing, so as long as we do not trade him, while keeping Kieff, I think Booker will be fine, he looks smarter than both Markieff and Goodwin, so he probably stays away from them anyway.

And by the way, sunk cost is not a fallacy, it is an economics reality, the key is to calculate it right in timing and amount. But in this particular issue, is really hard to know, at the moment is almost a crapshot. I'm pretty sure no one would have wanted the season to unfold like this, but in this league you have to make uninformed decisions, sometimes gambles, and I'm pretty sure, even flip coins when it comes to human resources.

[Nodack]

I think Goodwin became Kieffs little brother. Bad move by Goodman. I think Booker is smarter than Goodman. I don't think Kieff has the same influence over Booker.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I think Goodwin became Kieffs little brother. Bad move by Goodman. I think Booker is smarter than Goodman. I don't think Kieff has the same influence over Booker.

This.