Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Superbone]

Hot Rod Williams here we come.

It's not like you NEED an elite C to win in the league anymore.

The 4 starting centers left are Kevon Looney, Dwight Powell, Bam Adebayo, and Robert Williams(or Horford I guess).

Looney and Powell often only play 15 minutes or less too.

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

Great point! And that's just the facts. Embiid's and Jokic's teams went out early.

[Drewsprocket]

Hot Rod Williams here we come.

It's not like you NEED an elite C to win in the league anymore.

The 4 starting centers left are Kevon Looney, Dwight Powell, Bam Adebayo, and Robert Williams(or Horford I guess).

Looney and Powell often only play 15 minutes or less too.

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

Great point! And that's just the facts. Embiid's and Jokic's teams went out early.

Neither of them had a real number 2 option.

[TOO]

Rebound, defend, screen, roll. That's all they gotta do in this league, no need to pay premium money for that.

[SunsRIt]

Hot Rod Williams here we come.

It's not like you NEED an elite C to win in the league anymore.

The 4 starting centers left are Kevon Looney, Dwight Powell, Bam Adebayo, and Robert Williams(or Horford I guess).

Looney and Powell often only play 15 minutes or less too.

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

I was referring to the abysmal trade.

[virtual9mm]

If Durant really wants out, Nets don't have much leverage. Why don't we cash in every chip not named Booker, Paul, or Ayton? And if we are smart, we can try to hang on to either Bridges or Cam Johnson.

Key is not to do a bad deal, just run with the same team with tweaks again if needed. But I suspect that either LeBron or Durant will force their ways out, giving the Suns an opportunity for a heist.

They do have him signed for the next 4 years

Yes...but a Durant could easily force his way out.

[Mori Chu]

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

I mean, yeah, but:

- Jokic's team has its 2nd and 3rd best players, both wings, out with bad injuries. If they were at full strength, they'd be formidable.

- Giannis's team also lost its 2nd best player (Middleton) to an injury. With him they might still be defending their title. Oh, and, they WON THE TITLE last year.

- Embiid has a shitty team around him, with his 2nd option being a fatass who spends more time at the titty bar than at the gym. Prior to that his best teammate was a pussy who refused to play because some people criticized him and made him feel sad.

I don't see any reason why teams led by any of the 3 guys above couldn't win an NBA title. I dare say all 3 of those teams will be contenders or near-contenders for years to come. In fact you could argue that all 3 of those bigs almost dragged mediocre supporting casts across the finish line all by themselves. Why exactly are they the problem?

[specialsauce]

I would offer Bridges, Crowder, and a first to Boston for Jaylen Brown. I don’t think they’d say yes, but I’d offer it.

Then I’d work on a sign and trade with DA for John Collins.

I’d try and trade Shamet, Craig and Payne to NO for Jonas

Fuck it, let’s blow it up

[Split T]

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

I mean, yeah, but:

- Jokic's team has its 2nd and 3rd best players, both wings, out with bad injuries. If they were at full strength, they'd be formidable.

- Giannis's team also lost its 2nd best player (Middleton) to an injury. With him they might still be defending their title. Oh, and, they WON THE TITLE last year.

- Embiid has a shitty team around him, with his 2nd option being a fatass who spends more time at the titty bar than at the gym. Prior to that his best teammate was a pussy who refused to play because some people criticized him and made him feel sad.

I don't see any reason why teams led by any of the 3 guys above couldn't win an NBA title. I dare say all 3 of those teams will be contenders or near-contenders for years to come. In fact you could argue that all 3 of those bigs almost dragged mediocre supporting casts across the finish line all by themselves. Why exactly are they the problem?

Didn’t really mean it as a dig at them personally. Was just using it to backup the claim that you don’t need an all-nba center to win. Teams with 8th men starting at C made it farther than the all-nba C teams(also I meant KAT, not Giannis as he’s a F, at least by All-NBA voting). It’s not to say they can’t make it far, it’s just not necessary.

[specialsauce]

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

I mean, yeah, but:

- Jokic's team has its 2nd and 3rd best players, both wings, out with bad injuries. If they were at full strength, they'd be formidable.

- Giannis's team also lost its 2nd best player (Middleton) to an injury. With him they might still be defending their title. Oh, and, they WON THE TITLE last year.

- Embiid has a shitty team around him, with his 2nd option being a fatass who spends more time at the titty bar than at the gym. Prior to that his best teammate was a pussy who refused to play because some people criticized him and made him feel sad.

I don't see any reason why teams led by any of the 3 guys above couldn't win an NBA title. I dare say all 3 of those teams will be contenders or near-contenders for years to come. In fact you could argue that all 3 of those bigs almost dragged mediocre supporting casts across the finish line all by themselves. Why exactly are they the problem?

That’s a very true statement that’s unlike you. Glad you are calling it like it is.

[JeremyG]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

[Superbone]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

That’s laughable. Book has more aggression in his little pinky than Ayton does in his whole being.

[virtual9mm]

Our 3 All-NBA centers lost in the 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round.

I mean, yeah, but:

- Jokic's team has its 2nd and 3rd best players, both wings, out with bad injuries. If they were at full strength, they'd be formidable.

- Giannis's team also lost its 2nd best player (Middleton) to an injury. With him they might still be defending their title. Oh, and, they WON THE TITLE last year.

- Embiid has a shitty team around him, with his 2nd option being a fatass who spends more time at the titty bar than at the gym. Prior to that his best teammate was a pussy who refused to play because some people criticized him and made him feel sad.

I don't see any reason why teams led by any of the 3 guys above couldn't win an NBA title. I dare say all 3 of those teams will be contenders or near-contenders for years to come. In fact you could argue that all 3 of those bigs almost dragged mediocre supporting casts across the finish line all by themselves. Why exactly are they the problem?

That’s a very true statement that’s unlike you. Glad you are calling it like it is.

Come on, be nice. Tough enough to be a Suns fan without being jerks to each other <3

[Indy]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

Look, it seems like >99% of this board thinks of Ayton as a borderline top 5 center, me included.

The one centers clearly better no matter who you ask are Embiid and Jokic.

Most will put KAT above him.

Non-Suns fans would likely have Gobert neck and neck with Ayton.

But nobody would put Ayton as a top 20 player in the league, while everyone would have Embiid and Jokic there. You need top 20 players to make noise in the playoffs. Right now the Suns only have 1 top 20 player. And Paul has been a top 20 4th quarter player all season except for his last 5 games (I know, a huge caveat).

We need another top 20 player, and I am willing to trade nearly anyone to get it. And I would trade ANYONE if it makes it more likely for us to get another player in that class.

[virtual9mm]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

Look, it seems like >99% of this board thinks of Ayton as a borderline top 5 center, me included.

The one centers clearly better no matter who you ask are Embiid and Jokic.

Most will put KAT above him.

Non-Suns fans would likely have Gobert neck and neck with Ayton.

But nobody would put Ayton as a top 20 player in the league, while everyone would have Embiid and Jokic there. You need top 20 players to make noise in the playoffs. Right now the Suns only have 1 top 20 player. And Paul has been a top 20 4th quarter player all season except for his last 5 games (I know, a huge caveat).

We need another top 20 player, and I am willing to trade nearly anyone to get it. And I would trade ANYONE if it makes it more likely for us to get another player in that class.

Sure, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But let's try to do it without trading Booker, Paul, or Ayton.

[Drewsprocket]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

Look, it seems like >99% of this board thinks of Ayton as a borderline top 5 center, me included.

The one centers clearly better no matter who you ask are Embiid and Jokic.

Most will put KAT above him.

Non-Suns fans would likely have Gobert neck and neck with Ayton.

But nobody would put Ayton as a top 20 player in the league, while everyone would have Embiid and Jokic there. You need top 20 players to make noise in the playoffs. Right now the Suns only have 1 top 20 player. And Paul has been a top 20 4th quarter player all season except for his last 5 games (I know, a huge caveat).

We need another top 20 player, and I am willing to trade nearly anyone to get it. And I would trade ANYONE if it makes it more likely for us to get another player in that class.

Sure, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But let's try to do it without trading Booker, Paul, or Ayton.

How do you get that with a maxed out Ayton? Name a top 20 player gettable without giving up Ayton.

[Drewsprocket]

I hope they don’t fuck this up…

[Split T]

I admit I’m very excited about this idea, but I think it’s still very unlikely. Brooklyn has a huge incentive to keep KD.

[JeremyG]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

Look, it seems like >99% of this board thinks of Ayton as a borderline top 5 center, me included.

The one centers clearly better no matter who you ask are Embiid and Jokic.

Most will put KAT above him.

Non-Suns fans would likely have Gobert neck and neck with Ayton.

But nobody would put Ayton as a top 20 player in the league, while everyone would have Embiid and Jokic there. You need top 20 players to make noise in the playoffs. Right now the Suns only have 1 top 20 player. And Paul has been a top 20 4th quarter player all season except for his last 5 games (I know, a huge caveat).

We need another top 20 player, and I am willing to trade nearly anyone to get it. And I would trade ANYONE if it makes it more likely for us to get another player in that class.

Sure, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But let's try to do it without trading Booker, Paul, or Ayton.

How do you get that with a maxed out Ayton? Name a top 20 player gettable without giving up Ayton.

Why mention “maxed out Ayton”? The cap doesn’t matter if you’re making a trade. You trade enough salary to take back the salary of the top 20 star.

Now is there a top 20 player that’s “gettable”? If a star really wants out, and you give up some combination of Johnson/Bridges/expirings plus 1st round draft picks, then maybe.

[Indy]

I guess that is where we differ. I can't see him ever being aggressive enough to be a #2 on a great team. To do that, you need to get your own buckets against playoff defenses that are game planning to stop you from getting your own buckets.

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

Look, it seems like >99% of this board thinks of Ayton as a borderline top 5 center, me included.

The one centers clearly better no matter who you ask are Embiid and Jokic.

Most will put KAT above him.

Non-Suns fans would likely have Gobert neck and neck with Ayton.

But nobody would put Ayton as a top 20 player in the league, while everyone would have Embiid and Jokic there. You need top 20 players to make noise in the playoffs. Right now the Suns only have 1 top 20 player. And Paul has been a top 20 4th quarter player all season except for his last 5 games (I know, a huge caveat).

We need another top 20 player, and I am willing to trade nearly anyone to get it. And I would trade ANYONE if it makes it more likely for us to get another player in that class.

Sure, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But let's try to do it without trading Booker, Paul, or Ayton.

That would be great. I would love to add a top 20 player as a 4 in our system and not trade any of those guys. (But I do think it is more important to have a lock-down perimeter 1st team defender than Ayton at a max contract.)

Tell me how you do that when those 3 guys will be making 100M this year and top 20 player cost 30-40M?

[Indy]

You mean like Booker being trapped in games 6 and 7 vs. the Mavs? Does that mean Booker needs to be our #3?

Look, it seems like >99% of this board thinks of Ayton as a borderline top 5 center, me included.

The one centers clearly better no matter who you ask are Embiid and Jokic.

Most will put KAT above him.

Non-Suns fans would likely have Gobert neck and neck with Ayton.

But nobody would put Ayton as a top 20 player in the league, while everyone would have Embiid and Jokic there. You need top 20 players to make noise in the playoffs. Right now the Suns only have 1 top 20 player. And Paul has been a top 20 4th quarter player all season except for his last 5 games (I know, a huge caveat).

We need another top 20 player, and I am willing to trade nearly anyone to get it. And I would trade ANYONE if it makes it more likely for us to get another player in that class.

Sure, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But let's try to do it without trading Booker, Paul, or Ayton.

How do you get that with a maxed out Ayton? Name a top 20 player gettable without giving up Ayton.

Why mention “maxed out Ayton”? The cap doesn’t matter if you’re making a trade. You trade enough salary to take back the salary of the top 20 star.

Now is there a top 20 player that’s “gettable”? If a star really wants out, and you give up some combination of Johnson/Bridges/expirings plus 1st round draft picks, then maybe.

Because it matters. Spending 100M a year on Booker/Paul/Ayton means you don't have much space left to add people. And top 20 players are expensive. So keeping Ayton at a max, then adding 30-40M in salary for one guy, now means you have to make room for 60-70M instead. And then it means you are paying penalties to keep every player on the roster. So the guys with the big penalties need to be worth it.