The 2021 Suns Offseason

[In2ition]

I feel like Thad is more likely. Nance is cheaper per yr, but the contract is one yr longer. Nance is a bit younger, and in per 36 or per 100 possession stats, is superior in rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists. Thad is a better scorer, and is known to lock up stars. Neither is great at the line or from 3.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Hate to say this, but I don't think we can afford to be conservative and stand pat on a second viable big w/Saric down. We badly need an upgrade still in the frontcourt, it would appear...and none of the steps taken to date would accomplish that. I think they HAVE to go after Nance, if we want a legit shot at reaching the finals and winning next year...and of the names floating out there, he 'feels' like the only name that might fit that bill. Saric is not awesome, he's serviceable...Stix is a wildcard...and our goal is the finals, so its not like our pick is lottery bound. So...why would it be so bad an idea to shop that proposed combination...heck, I'd think even offering another pick or a few 2nd rounders in there...is such a bad idea, given we are investing a 4 year contract in CP3 to create a win now circumstance????

Pull the trigger...get Larry...its the right move.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Dated of course, but still interesting...

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2021/07/22/ ... ba-finals/

[Flagrant Fowl]

I would guess that negotiations for Nance or Young hinge mostly on draft pick protections because I doubt they'd be willing to part with Cam Johnson. The Suns 2022 pick should be going to OKC, but it has protections on it out to 2025. I'm not sure how the uncertainty of the pick going to OKC impacts their ability to include other future first rounders in new trades.

[Shabazz]

I would guess that negotiations for Nance or Young hinge mostly on draft pick protections because I doubt they'd be willing to part with Cam Johnson. The Suns 2022 pick should be going to OKC, but it has protections on it out to 2025. I'm not sure how the uncertainty of the pick going to OKC impacts their ability to include other future first rounders in new trades.

Unless they modify the protections on the pick going to OKC, they can't trade a pick until 2027.

[Cap]

Thads 3P FG% leaves a lot to be desired

Better than Smith’s.

[Split T]

I would guess that negotiations for Nance or Young hinge mostly on draft pick protections because I doubt they'd be willing to part with Cam Johnson. The Suns 2022 pick should be going to OKC, but it has protections on it out to 2025. I'm not sure how the uncertainty of the pick going to OKC impacts their ability to include other future first rounders in new trades.

Unless they modify the protections on the pick going to OKC, they can't trade a pick until 2027.

Ya, I’d be all for lifting the protections on the pick next year. Though I think you can just trade your next available pick…so if the pick conveys to the Thunder in 2022, we’d send our 2024 pick in the deal for Nance. At least I imagine there is a way you could work that out logistically.

[Shabazz]

This thread is kind of how I feel. Happy about the present, but concerned about an organizational approach to long term roster building. It’s almost like the reverse McDonough, instead of continually selling the future it’s YOLO.

I also recognize it’s somewhat hypocritical that I’m willing to offload Stix and/or a pick for a contributing veteran, but I think that has more to do with Stix’s talent and moving him represents a hedge against an Earl Clark 2.0 outcome.

[ShelC]

Concerned about long term roster building when Book, Mikal, Cam, DA are under 25, and Payne is 27? It looks like they screwed up on Stix, which hurts since he was a 10 pick and a could've been a contributing player (and a "big" nonetheless) on a cheap contract, but it happens. The FO got a known quantity in Shamet, who projects to be another piece of the core at 24 years old, for the 29th pick. I love the draft and SL as much as anyone but I'm not going to cry over an inconsequential 2021 SL team when we're coming off a Finals appearance and have limited roster space and minutes available for young guys anyway. That's not to say you ignore the draft and young guys just because you're competitive, but you don't need new 20-21 yr olds added to the roster every single summer.

[Flagrant Fowl]

The more I think about recent events leads me to believe part of the reason Paul and Payne took more team friendly deals is because they were assured the team would make more "win now" moves.

All signs point to a Jalen Smith trade if that's the case, and it's pretty wild how much this next SL game against Denver can impact his future.

[Split T]

The issue is when all those guys are off their rookie deals..if you don’t have young, cheap talent filling out the roster, it becomes hard to have a deep team that’s not paying exorbitant luxury tax fees.

[Shabazz]

The issue is when all those guys are off their rookie deals..if you don’t have young, cheap talent filling out the roster, it becomes hard to have a deep team that’s not paying exorbitant luxury tax fees.

Yup.

[Indy]

The issue is when all those guys are off their rookie deals..if you don’t have young, cheap talent filling out the roster, it becomes hard to have a deep team that’s not paying exorbitant luxury tax fees.

Yup.

It is very likely that our starting line up for the 22 season will cost 120M on their own. (And that estimate might be low... with Cam due for an extension to kick in the next season...) So you have to fill ~10 more spots for 20M. That is basically only vet min deals for everyone else.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I can see the danger of paying for Ayton, Mikal and Cam when one, some or all of them don't produce to the value of their contract. That's kind of where the Blazers got themselves into trouble.

I hesitate on Mikal and Cam. They're older than most guys in their contract situation and both still have some pretty big holes in their game. Getting to and above the $20M/year level for either is risky business. I need to see some offensive creation from them before I feel good about them making that kind of money on the Suns.

I think Ayton has to be paid. He's just so damn big, athletic and durable so far in his career, and I believe he wants to get better. I really hope we see a broader set of offensive skills from him this season.

[Indy]

I can see the danger of paying for Ayton, Mikal and Cam when one, some or all of them don't produce to the value of their contract. That's kind of where the Blazers got themselves into trouble.

I hesitate on Mikal and Cam. They're older than most guys in their contract situation and both still have some pretty big holes in their game. Getting to and above the $20M/year level for either is risky business. I need to see some offensive creation from them before I feel good about them making that kind of money on the Suns.

I think Ayton has to be paid. He's just so damn big, athletic and durable so far in his career, and I believe he wants to get better. I really hope we see a broader set of offensive skills from him this season.

I would bet money we see a bigger change in offensive skillset from Mikal and Cam than Ayton. But the Suns will be literally betting a lot more money on the opposite.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

The more I think about recent events leads me to believe part of the reason Paul and Payne took more team friendly deals is because they were assured the team would make more "win now" moves.

All signs point to a Jalen Smith trade if that's the case, and it's pretty wild how much this next SL game against Denver can impact his future.

Nance Jr, Kevin Love or Aldrige would be better choices, but what about trading Jalen plus Saric, for Marvin Bagley, in a swap of damaged goods. Worst case escenario we let him go and get rid of Dario’s contract, but also being a RFA, it give us control of his future if he thrives here but not enough to keep him.

[Mori Chu]

I would be more upset about trading draft picks if we were an old veteran team. But we have one of the youngest rosters in the NBA. We still need to be cycling in new young talent, but we do have a bunch of guys who are 24-and-under who can be part of our team's future for a long time. I don't mind a few picks being used to help us try to get back to the title next year.

[Indy]

I would trade 10 draft picks if it guaranteed a title next year. And we do have a bunch of guys 25 and under. But they are already making 20-33M per year, or will be soon. We can't just hope to find 8 guys each year on minimum deals that will help us win. We need guys like Mikal and Cam Johnson on rookie contracts that are growing their skills, instead of +33 year old vets that are just hoping to catch on a team for the minimum.

[Shabazz]

It’s more of a philosophical thing for me combined with the knowledge that Sarver’s cheapness is what’s driving a lot of this.

We’ve sold our G-league team, traded all of our second round picks and only used one of the 2-way slots last year. For all the talk of our young core, There’s only one “young,” productive player that James Jones brought in and he’s older than Devin Booker.

Again, I’m super happy to be back in title contention, but I’m also going to probably be a fan once Chris Paul’s run is over and I want long term success for the team too. We’ve all seen this movie before. A big part of the post-Nash awfulness was either eschewing or botching the draft during the SSOL years.

[Indy]

It’s more of a philosophical thing for me combined with the knowledge that Sarver’s cheapness is what’s driving a lot of this.

We’ve sold our G-league team, traded all of our second round picks and only used one of the 2-way slots last year. For all the talk of our young core, There’s only one “young,” productive player that James Jones brought in and he’s older than Devin Booker.

Again, I’m super happy to be back in title contention, but I’m also going to probably be a fan once Chris Paul’s run is over and I want long term success for the team too. We’ve all seen this movie before. A big part of the post-Nash awfulness was either eschewing and botching the draft during the SSOL years.

And for all of the talk about the 7SOL teams and how great we were then and what we did for the league and Nash and... In the entire era, we made it out of the 1st round 4 times. That is it. 4 playoff appearances past round 1. We got booted by the Spurs in 08 and didn't even make the playoffs in 09. Thank goodness for how much fun our bounce-back year was in 2010, or we'd be talking about a great era in Suns basketball that really only lasted 3 seasons. And the shortness of that run had a ton to do with how often we eschewed the draft or good FAs in order to save some cash.