Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Mori Chu »

I think Hinkie is handling this whole thing poorly. The 13-page letter is a bad look. His appearance on Zach Lowe's podcast right before this is very oddly timed if he then resigns a week later. This whole thing just makes him look like he lacks confidence and is trying to drive the narrative of this story. In reality, though I think many respect Hinkie, nobody is really going to cry about a guy leaving a team after making them into a total doormat for 3+ years. The Colangelo/nepotism thing is fishy and bad, but I don't think Hinkie is doing himself favors with how he is handling the breakup.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by virtual9mm »

In my book, JC has earned enough credibility that his word is his bond. This is the same man who gave a fully-valued contract to Danny Manning after he blew out his ACL.

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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by pickle »

I read the whole 76ers story in the other direction. From where we stand (outsiders) it's clearly difficult to have the full picture, but I like that Hinkie has stuck to a specific vision. Whether that vision is the right one is debatable, but at least he never wavered from it. Also he was able to maintain a generally good atmosphere in Philly and tried to coax incremental improvements from the guys that were signed by implementing a rigorous and analytics-backed practice methodology.

Of all the moves that he made, most were defendable in a way, other than Jahlil Okafor. I think that this pickup, of all pickups, might have been the one that eventually got him canned.

I'm interested in Jay Wright, but no matter what we do, I would like to see a clear vision from our front office, one that we can demonstrate a willingness to stick to.

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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by pickle »

virtual9mm wrote:In my book, JC has earned enough credibility that his word is his bond. This is the same man who gave a fully-valued contract to Danny Manning after he blew out his ACL.
Jerry is definitely great at what he does, but it doesn't preclude him from using everything at his disposable to remove Hinkie if he had other personnel in mind. Him wanting Bryan may not be the worst thing in the world, since Bryan has had some successes doing this job. However, it isn't that far-fetched that Jerry played some cards to get Hinkie gone. I never read anything about how Hinkie had poor people skills and that agents/other front office types didn't want to deal with him until after JC joined the 76ers as an adviser, for instance.

I listened to the whole Lowe podcast, and it is indeed curious, that timing. I am not going to venture to guess who leaked that 13 pager to the press. Whomever it is, this was handled rather poorly and I can't see it benefiting Hinkie. Maybe there's an angle I'm not seeing here?

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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by pickle »

EDC wrote: Washington won today. Although I think we are a lock for a lottery pick from them (12-14). They have to win out and the Pistons have to lose out for them to make the playoffs.
Since this pick is top 9 protected, I don't think we benefit from it being in the lottery per se, as there's a higher chance it doesn't convey this year (however slim that might be). On the other hand, I guess I don't necessarily mind for this pick to defer to next year. Given the way things are in DC, I don't see the Wizards getting significantly better.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Split T »

There is like a 2 percent chance it doesn't come to us this year. Washington was eliminated tonight from playoffs. Pick should be 12th

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Superbone »

dragickingdom wrote:When your draft pick puts off surgery so they can go on vacation and relax all summer, there is problems with your players taking anything seriously.
Like Shaq said when he waited to have surgery until just before the season started, that's his time.
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Indy »

pickle wrote: I'm interested in Jay Wright, but no matter what we do, I would like to see a clear vision from our front office, one that we can demonstrate a willingness to stick to.
Ummm, pickle, have you not heard about the 2 PG line up?

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Nepotism and all, but or what it's worth, they say BC really wanted the Nets job but very reluctant and had to be convinced to take Philly's. Not wanting to be under his father's shadow and all.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Superbone wrote:
dragickingdom wrote:When your draft pick puts off surgery so they can go on vacation and relax all summer, there is problems with your players taking anything seriously.
Like Shaq said when he waited to have surgery until just before the season started, that's his time.
Was about to point this myself. Or Bynum. Lazy is lazy.

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ShelC
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by ShelC »

Of all the moves that he made, most were defendable in a way, other than Jahlil Okafor. I think that this pickup, of all pickups, might have been the one that eventually got him canned.
Why is that?

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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by pickle »

Indy wrote:
pickle wrote: I'm interested in Jay Wright, but no matter what we do, I would like to see a clear vision from our front office, one that we can demonstrate a willingness to stick to.
Ummm, pickle, have you not heard about the 2 PG line up?
Touche...

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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by pickle »

ShelC wrote:
Of all the moves that he made, most were defendable in a way, other than Jahlil Okafor. I think that this pickup, of all pickups, might have been the one that eventually got him canned.
Why is that?
This is just my personal read of the situation, and I am by no means a Sixers expert. Having made that disclaimer, Hinkie's strategy all along has been to bottom out until you can get that one truly transcendental talent that pulls everything together, which is why he doesn't mind drafting for potential and taking on risks when there are not sure-thing draft prospects on the table. That explains Noel and Embiid and Saric, where all three guys could be kept on the shelf legitimately, in order to execute this institutional tanking, which he reinforces by not bringing in quality free agency signings. If at some point he picks up a star that you can truly peg a future championship around, then these existing assets, such as cap space and draft picks and young prospects, can then be either used or swapped to build a roster that maximizes said star's talents. While the losing is ugly and painful, I think there was a clear vision there that made sense.

However, the Okafor pick marks a third center in three years, and a second active center on the roster who had, by the time of last year's draft, the wrong skill set for the modern NBA. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 so I won't claim that he should've known that Porzingis will be a better player. But he could have picked up Mudiay and continued this tanking, except with a more complete future roster, or traded down and taken Winslow or any number of other guards who could pull a MCW and put up gaudy stats while not helping them to more wins. Heck, even Trey Lyles made more sense. Instead he picked up yet another center, the third one in three years, and should the risks he took with the two prior drafts ever pan out, he'd have a massive logjam at that position, without enough minutes to truly develop or showcase any of those guys to even move them. It's probably far easier to get a Winslow and throw him to the fire, giving him 35 mpg and trading him later, than it is to get the 21 yr old Al Jefferson who either won't get minutes or really hurt the development of your current defensive anchor.

I know that many other things happened that eventually led to Hinkie getting pushed out, but of all his player personnel moves, everything had been part of a consistent plan, except for this. This pick made no sense at all to me.

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dragickingdom
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by dragickingdom »

Superbone wrote:
dragickingdom wrote:When your draft pick puts off surgery so they can go on vacation and relax all summer, there is problems with your players taking anything seriously.
Like Shaq said when he waited to have surgery until just before the season started, that's his time.
I was referring to Embid. He's yet to accomplish anything in this league yet, Shaq at that point had done more then a bit with his NBA carrier.

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Sunsfan4life
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Sunsfan4life »

pickle wrote:
ShelC wrote:
Of all the moves that he made, most were defendable in a way, other than Jahlil Okafor. I think that this pickup, of all pickups, might have been the one that eventually got him canned.
Why is that?
This is just my personal read of the situation, and I am by no means a Sixers expert. Having made that disclaimer, Hinkie's strategy all along has been to bottom out until you can get that one truly transcendental talent that pulls everything together, which is why he doesn't mind drafting for potential and taking on risks when there are not sure-thing draft prospects on the table. That explains Noel and Embiid and Saric, where all three guys could be kept on the shelf legitimately, in order to execute this institutional tanking, which he reinforces by not bringing in quality free agency signings. If at some point he picks up a star that you can truly peg a future championship around, then these existing assets, such as cap space and draft picks and young prospects, can then be either used or swapped to build a roster that maximizes said star's talents. While the losing is ugly and painful, I think there was a clear vision there that made sense.

However, the Okafor pick marks a third center in three years, and a second active center on the roster who had, by the time of last year's draft, the wrong skill set for the modern NBA. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 so I won't claim that he should've known that Porzingis will be a better player. But he could have picked up Mudiay and continued this tanking, except with a more complete future roster, or traded down and taken Winslow or any number of other guards who could pull a MCW and put up gaudy stats while not helping them to more wins. Heck, even Trey Lyles made more sense. Instead he picked up yet another center, the third one in three years, and should the risks he took with the two prior drafts ever pan out, he'd have a massive logjam at that position, without enough minutes to truly develop or showcase any of those guys to even move them. It's probably far easier to get a Winslow and throw him to the fire, giving him 35 mpg and trading him later, than it is to get the 21 yr old Al Jefferson who either won't get minutes or really hurt the development of your current defensive anchor.

I know that many other things happened that eventually led to Hinkie getting pushed out, but of all his player personnel moves, everything had been part of a consistent plan, except for this. This pick made no sense at all to me.
I'm very close to the situation and this is pretty spot on. Okafor is not highly regrded around here. He is a 1 dimensional player who has character issues. The Sixers 100% were angling for D'Angelo Russel, but once he went off the board Hinkie really didn't have a plan B. Should of been the Zinger.

I would say Sixer "fans" are disappointed Hinkie left but the media is thrilled. They hated the guy. He was so secretive and gave them virtually nothing. I always said The undoing of Hinkie would be not that his process would ultimately work but that he wouldn't be around to see it....He had some terrible luck though with the ping pong balls.
“Kobe had said (after the play) I wasn’t hugged enough as a child,” Bell recalled. “My mom kind of found him after the instance and we had beat them and offered him a hug in the bowels of the Phoenix arena. She really feels a part of that story.”

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Ring_Wanted »

I've read that Hinkie wanted Kristaps but was discouraged by the owners.

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Superbone »

dragickingdom wrote:
Superbone wrote:
dragickingdom wrote:When your draft pick puts off surgery so they can go on vacation and relax all summer, there is problems with your players taking anything seriously.
Like Shaq said when he waited to have surgery until just before the season started, that's his time.
I was referring to Embid. He's yet to accomplish anything in this league yet, Shaq at that point had done more then a bit with his NBA carrier.
I don't care how long your NBA career is. That was a very selfish and unprofessional stance by Shaq.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Superbone »

SF4L, I don't think it's just me but your avatar never shows up.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by Superbone »

Wow, Warriors barely keep their best regular season record hopes alive against the undermanned Grizzlies.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

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JCSunsfan
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Re: Around the League: Week 24 4/4-4/10

Post by JCSunsfan »

pickle wrote:
ShelC wrote:
Of all the moves that he made, most were defendable in a way, other than Jahlil Okafor. I think that this pickup, of all pickups, might have been the one that eventually got him canned.
Why is that?
This is just my personal read of the situation, and I am by no means a Sixers expert. Having made that disclaimer, Hinkie's strategy all along has been to bottom out until you can get that one truly transcendental talent that pulls everything together, which is why he doesn't mind drafting for potential and taking on risks when there are not sure-thing draft prospects on the table. That explains Noel and Embiid and Saric, where all three guys could be kept on the shelf legitimately, in order to execute this institutional tanking, which he reinforces by not bringing in quality free agency signings. If at some point he picks up a star that you can truly peg a future championship around, then these existing assets, such as cap space and draft picks and young prospects, can then be either used or swapped to build a roster that maximizes said star's talents. While the losing is ugly and painful, I think there was a clear vision there that made sense.

However, the Okafor pick marks a third center in three years, and a second active center on the roster who had, by the time of last year's draft, the wrong skill set for the modern NBA. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 so I won't claim that he should've known that Porzingis will be a better player. But he could have picked up Mudiay and continued this tanking, except with a more complete future roster, or traded down and taken Winslow or any number of other guards who could pull a MCW and put up gaudy stats while not helping them to more wins. Heck, even Trey Lyles made more sense. Instead he picked up yet another center, the third one in three years, and should the risks he took with the two prior drafts ever pan out, he'd have a massive logjam at that position, without enough minutes to truly develop or showcase any of those guys to even move them. It's probably far easier to get a Winslow and throw him to the fire, giving him 35 mpg and trading him later, than it is to get the 21 yr old Al Jefferson who either won't get minutes or really hurt the development of your current defensive anchor.

I know that many other things happened that eventually led to Hinkie getting pushed out, but of all his player personnel moves, everything had been part of a consistent plan, except for this. This pick made no sense at all to me.
So, the moral of the story is that drafting the consensus BPA (which Okafor was at the time), if he doesn't fit your roster, will get you fired. Hmm.

Trade the pick if you have to. Get the player you can use (or trade a player(s) you have). But don't stuff them all onto one roster.

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