Suns News: Week 5 1/18-1/24

[Charlie Smithy!]

I know as nodack would rightly say, it's only entertainment, but a large part of what ultimately kept me from enjoying the Nash era, is that our team would completely fall apart when he was off the floor and seem to be 100% dependent and contingent upon him. I'm probably selling D'antoni short, but I was really never sure exactly what he added with his coaching, aside from handing Nash the keys to the car in totality.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Anyone listen to the Real Ones podcast on the ringer nba show channel? Raja Bell and Shawn Marion talking a lot about their time in Phoenix. Why they never won a title. What year they should have won. Why Marion got traded. Some thoughts on J Kidd, Nash.

They both said the 05-06 team was the team that should have won. Marion said the biggest reason they didn’t win is lack of adjustments...kinda throws D’Antoni and Nash a little under the bus here...says they were just a Nash/Amare pick and roll team and everyone else stood in the corner. Spurs specifically would just let Nash and Amare cook and not let anyone else do anything. Thought they should have run something else when things weren’t working.

When talking about the trade he didn’t come out and say it, but seems like he was implying that Nash and Amare were asked and gave the thumbs up to trade him for Shaq.

Overall, he does seem pretty bitter about his time in Phoenix. He loved the year Amare was out, but was obviously frustrated being a lesser piece to the Nash/Amare pick and roll. I don’t get the feeling he’s the biggest D’Antoni fan. I’m not sure he’s got a beef with Nash/Amare, but don’t think that’s all love either. Doesn’t seem he has a relationship with the franchise at all right now..

It’s too bad, Shawn is my favorite Suns player all time. Put him in the ring of honor and build that relationship back.

Also maybe a little shot at Booker in there too.

I just finished listening to the podcast. It was typical Shawn Marion. He starts the conversation talking about teamwork and sacrifice to win, and by the end of it he puts the blame on everyone else for the Suns shortcomings. He made some good points about D'Antoni not adjusting (which EVERYONE pointed out at the time, but most people don't know what they're talking about according to Shawn ), and seemed bothered by the unnamed people who okayed the Shaq trade while breezing past his trade request months prior. Again, typical Shawn Marion.

I love Shaw Marion. Incredible player who'll always be one of my favorite Suns, but it's pretty clear that he wasn't the easiest guy to keep happy in a locker room.

[Split T]

I know as nodack would rightly say, it's only entertainment, but a large part of what ultimately kept me from enjoying the Nash era, is that our team would completely fall apart when he was off the floor and seem to be 100% dependent and contingent upon him. I'm probably selling D'antoni short, but I was really never sure exactly what he added with his coaching, aside from handing Nash the keys to the car in totality.

Ya I don’t buy into all of Shawn’s complaints, but he’s got a point that we just did the same thing over and over. The year Amare was hurt was a bit different, we ran stuff through Diaw as well. Plus Marion got to be the main screener that year.

We were an offense that could only really operate with Nash at the helm. It worked great when he was healthy and on the court, but all it took was one team to figure out how to slow it down(Spurs) and if you don’t adjust, you’re done.

[Split T]

Anyone listen to the Real Ones podcast on the ringer nba show channel? Raja Bell and Shawn Marion talking a lot about their time in Phoenix. Why they never won a title. What year they should have won. Why Marion got traded. Some thoughts on J Kidd, Nash.

They both said the 05-06 team was the team that should have won. Marion said the biggest reason they didn’t win is lack of adjustments...kinda throws D’Antoni and Nash a little under the bus here...says they were just a Nash/Amare pick and roll team and everyone else stood in the corner. Spurs specifically would just let Nash and Amare cook and not let anyone else do anything. Thought they should have run something else when things weren’t working.

When talking about the trade he didn’t come out and say it, but seems like he was implying that Nash and Amare were asked and gave the thumbs up to trade him for Shaq.

Overall, he does seem pretty bitter about his time in Phoenix. He loved the year Amare was out, but was obviously frustrated being a lesser piece to the Nash/Amare pick and roll. I don’t get the feeling he’s the biggest D’Antoni fan. I’m not sure he’s got a beef with Nash/Amare, but don’t think that’s all love either. Doesn’t seem he has a relationship with the franchise at all right now..

It’s too bad, Shawn is my favorite Suns player all time. Put him in the ring of honor and build that relationship back.

Also maybe a little shot at Booker in there too.

I just finished listening to the podcast. It was typical Shawn Marion. He starts the conversation talking about teamwork and sacrifice to win, and by the end of it he puts the blame on everyone else for the Suns shortcomings. He made some good points about D'Antoni not adjusting (which EVERYONE pointed out at the time, but most people don't know what they're talking about according to Shawn ), and seemed bothered by the unnamed people who okayed the Shaq trade while breezing past his trade request months prior. Again, typical Shawn Marion.

I love Shaw Marion. Incredible player who'll always be one of my favorite Suns, but it's pretty clear that he wasn't the easiest guy to keep happy in a locker room.

Ya for sure, he never really learned how to take criticism or admit his role in things. He made some good points, but for the most part you understand why the team traded him. He asked for a trade in the summer, I’m sure the team shopped him, they got the Shaq offer, and they came together to discuss what to do. Makes perfect sense that Nash and Amare would be a part of that convo. And I’m sure they decided it was best to move on. Shaq didn’t work, but it would have been hard to do small ball without Shawn, so I understand why they went big.

[Split T]

Saw this on Twitter today too. Just look at this awfulness and be grateful for the team we have now.

[Indy]

Saw this on Twitter today too. Just look at this awfulness and be grateful for the team we have now.

There were 4 guys I couldn't name by just their picture. It mostly reminded me about what a shitty franchise we have been the last decade.

[Indy]

I know as nodack would rightly say, it's only entertainment, but a large part of what ultimately kept me from enjoying the Nash era, is that our team would completely fall apart when he was off the floor and seem to be 100% dependent and contingent upon him. I'm probably selling D'antoni short, but I was really never sure exactly what he added with his coaching, aside from handing Nash the keys to the car in totality.

Ya I don’t buy into all of Shawn’s complaints, but he’s got a point that we just did the same thing over and over. The year Amare was hurt was a bit different, we ran stuff through Diaw as well. Plus Marion got to be the main screener that year.

We were an offense that could only really operate with Nash at the helm. It worked great when he was healthy and on the court, but all it took was one team to figure out how to slow it down(Spurs) and if you don’t adjust, you’re done.

That 05-06 team was my favorite team since the kids beat the Lakers in 1990.

[bajanguy008]

Saw this on Twitter today too. Just look at this awfulness and be grateful for the team we have now.

There were 4 guys I couldn't name by just their picture. It mostly reminded me about what a shitty franchise we have been the last decade.

Lol crazy compilation to look at
I am only stumped by the guy in between Barbs and Weems. He really has me confused but man our stretch 4s Mirza and Leuer had couple moments

[Split T]

Saw this on Twitter today too. Just look at this awfulness and be grateful for the team we have now.

There were 4 guys I couldn't name by just their picture. It mostly reminded me about what a shitty franchise we have been the last decade.

I thought Sonny Weems was Archie Goodwin...and I think that’s Mirza Teletovic as the $3 PF and Jon Leuer as the $2 C, but I’m not positive. Guessed that the $2 SG was John Jenkins.

[specialsauce]

Wow, Paul visibly frustrated after the win last night:



This is good to see. He knew it shouldn't be that close and is looking improve even in wins. I like that.

He talked about wasted possessions and young guys. Didn’t like to see him deflecting that blame on them. He was just as guilty.

[Drewsprocket]

Anyone listen to the Real Ones podcast on the ringer nba show channel? Raja Bell and Shawn Marion talking a lot about their time in Phoenix. Why they never won a title. What year they should have won. Why Marion got traded. Some thoughts on J Kidd, Nash.

They both said the 05-06 team was the team that should have won. Marion said the biggest reason they didn’t win is lack of adjustments...kinda throws D’Antoni and Nash a little under the bus here...says they were just a Nash/Amare pick and roll team and everyone else stood in the corner. Spurs specifically would just let Nash and Amare cook and not let anyone else do anything. Thought they should have run something else when things weren’t working.

When talking about the trade he didn’t come out and say it, but seems like he was implying that Nash and Amare were asked and gave the thumbs up to trade him for Shaq.

Overall, he does seem pretty bitter about his time in Phoenix. He loved the year Amare was out, but was obviously frustrated being a lesser piece to the Nash/Amare pick and roll. I don’t get the feeling he’s the biggest D’Antoni fan. I’m not sure he’s got a beef with Nash/Amare, but don’t think that’s all love either. Doesn’t seem he has a relationship with the franchise at all right now..

It’s too bad, Shawn is my favorite Suns player all time. Put him in the ring of honor and build that relationship back.

Also maybe a little shot at Booker in there too.

I just finished listening to the podcast. It was typical Shawn Marion. He starts the conversation talking about teamwork and sacrifice to win, and by the end of it he puts the blame on everyone else for the Suns shortcomings. He made some good points about D'Antoni not adjusting (which EVERYONE pointed out at the time, but most people don't know what they're talking about according to Shawn ), and seemed bothered by the unnamed people who okayed the Shaq trade while breezing past his trade request months prior. Again, typical Shawn Marion.

I love Shaw Marion. Incredible player who'll always be one of my favorite Suns, but it's pretty clear that he wasn't the easiest guy to keep happy in a locker room.

Ya for sure, he never really learned how to take criticism or admit his role in things. He made some good points, but for the most part you understand why the team traded him. He asked for a trade in the summer, I’m sure the team shopped him, they got the Shaq offer, and they came together to discuss what to do. Makes perfect sense that Nash and Amare would be a part of that convo. And I’m sure they decided it was best to move on. Shaq didn’t work, but it would have been hard to do small ball without Shawn, so I understand why they went big.

The thing I never understood about Marion was his frustration not being a more focal point in every offense. He wanted plays ran for him but the guy couldn’t handle it earlier in his career when we all wanted him to turn into a 25+ppg player. His shot was shit, he wasn’t good enough to create for himself, and he never drew contact to get to the line like a star player should. But he is always bitter about that as a player.
But, absolutely, he was an amazing player who could hang 20ppg without plays ran for him. He was a one of a kind and should have been DPOY.

[Split T]

Ya he really was in the perfect situation for himself, he just couldn’t see it.

[bajanguy008]

Ahhh right right
It's Jenkins that I didn't recognize

[AmareIsGod]

Marion never had good handles or a reliable jump shot. What plays would you run for him? Pick and roll and slash cuts are all you'd be able to design. He wasn't going to take his defender 1 on 1.

[Charlie Smithy!]

So... Does anyone else think we should have just paid Joe Johnson?

[INFORMER]

Fellas, we traded for a player who was 2nd team All NBA last year and one of the best point guards of all time. We didn't get pressured by Booker into signing Antonio Davis or Tristan Thompson to absurd deals.

It was a good trade.

That's an oversimplification.

Sure. But everything else is theoretical.

Of course it is. But since when does anyone just accept what happens as the only thing that could have happened or the best thing that could have happened?

We should have signed FVV?
How do we know he wanted to sign here?

We don't, but it's not like that was the only alternative. And it's not like I am saying "the Chris Paul trade was a bad a deal because we could have had FVV."

We could have gotten more for Oubre and Rubio?
Who knows if there was a (subjectively) better package out there and based on what they actually fetched OKC...

Well first, all OKC was looking for is to avoid salary and get draft picks. So I don't think you can use that as a barometer. Secondly, it isn't a question of more in the sense that you could have gotten a better player than Chris Paul. It's a question of direction. I don't think it was prudent to consolidate three assets for an aging, high-priced player exiting his prime. I think it is very plausible you could have turned Oubre/Rubio into cap space, a pick, and a couple of solid vets. Not all-stars or superstars, but reasonable contracts to improve the depth/talent base of the team.

We gave up a 1st rounder?
We’ll survive the loss of what will likely be a pick in the early 20s, late teens at worst.

I'm fine moving a pick, I just want it to count, to be worth it. I like the protection that was put on it, but I just feel that if you're giving up a first rounder, it should be for a foundational, long-term piece. Not an extended rental.

Now we’re out of the running for 2021 marquee free agents?
That’s McD Ponzi Scheme thinking. Plus the 2021 free agent class is looking pretty sparse.

Ryan has a monopoly on planning ahead for an upcoming free agency class? Please. I guess Miami is running their franchise like McD too.

I'm not sure what you consider as "marquee," but I surely never had any dreams of Giannis or anyone like that. I think there are plenty of other guys 2 tiers below that that I would want to surround Booker and Ayton with.

[INFORMER]

He talked about wasted possessions and young guys. Didn’t like to see him deflecting that blame on them. He was just as guilty.

And it was a "young" player that bailed him out; he went one on one and jacked up a crappy double-clutch bankshot that Ayton rebounded, got fouled, and nailed two free throws.

Coach Paul still has Clipper stink on him. Same kind of mentality that created problems there.

[Furlanfufi]

Anyone listen to the Real Ones podcast on the ringer nba show channel? Raja Bell and Shawn Marion talking a lot about their time in Phoenix. Why they never won a title. What year they should have won. Why Marion got traded. Some thoughts on J Kidd, Nash.

They both said the 05-06 team was the team that should have won. Marion said the biggest reason they didn’t win is lack of adjustments...kinda throws D’Antoni and Nash a little under the bus here...says they were just a Nash/Amare pick and roll team and everyone else stood in the corner. Spurs specifically would just let Nash and Amare cook and not let anyone else do anything. Thought they should have run something else when things weren’t working.

When talking about the trade he didn’t come out and say it, but seems like he was implying that Nash and Amare were asked and gave the thumbs up to trade him for Shaq.

Overall, he does seem pretty bitter about his time in Phoenix. He loved the year Amare was out, but was obviously frustrated being a lesser piece to the Nash/Amare pick and roll. I don’t get the feeling he’s the biggest D’Antoni fan. I’m not sure he’s got a beef with Nash/Amare, but don’t think that’s all love either. Doesn’t seem he has a relationship with the franchise at all right now..

It’s too bad, Shawn is my favorite Suns player all time. Put him in the ring of honor and build that relationship back.

Also maybe a little shot at Booker in there too.

I just finished listening to the podcast. It was typical Shawn Marion. He starts the conversation talking about teamwork and sacrifice to win, and by the end of it he puts the blame on everyone else for the Suns shortcomings. He made some good points about D'Antoni not adjusting (which EVERYONE pointed out at the time, but most people don't know what they're talking about according to Shawn ), and seemed bothered by the unnamed people who okayed the Shaq trade while breezing past his trade request months prior. Again, typical Shawn Marion.

I love Shaw Marion. Incredible player who'll always be one of my favorite Suns, but it's pretty clear that he wasn't the easiest guy to keep happy in a locker room.

Ya for sure, he never really learned how to take criticism or admit his role in things. He made some good points, but for the most part you understand why the team traded him. He asked for a trade in the summer, I’m sure the team shopped him, they got the Shaq offer, and they came together to discuss what to do. Makes perfect sense that Nash and Amare would be a part of that convo. And I’m sure they decided it was best to move on. Shaq didn’t work, but it would have been hard to do small ball without Shawn, so I understand why they went big.

The thing I never understood about Marion was his frustration not being a more focal point in every offense. He wanted plays ran for him but the guy couldn’t handle it earlier in his career when we all wanted him to turn into a 25+ppg player. His shot was shit, he wasn’t good enough to create for himself, and he never drew contact to get to the line like a star player should. But he is always bitter about that as a player.
But, absolutely, he was an amazing player who could hang 20ppg without plays ran for him. He was a one of a kind and should have been DPOY.

From a Bill Simmons column back in the day:


"If there's a potential land mine, it's the Marion-Stoudemire rivalry, an ongoing problem (as McCallum described in his book about the Suns) because of Stoudemire's enormous ego and Marion's insecurities about his underappreciated career (even though his talents are indisputably essential to everything the Suns do). If this were a rock band, Marion would be the drummer -- the guy who's killing himself every night and resigning himself to a couple of solos per concert. In fact, one of the reasons I couldn't endorse Nash's previous MVP candidacies was because no Phoenix star could be more "valuable" than any other Phoenix star; such a premise belittled the contributions of Stoudemire two years ago and Marion last season. Without Marion, the Suns wouldn't be the Suns.
Anyway, the Stoudemire-Marion issue could have killed this team -- hell, it still might -- but something funny happened while they were sorting everything out: Phoenix couldn't stop winning. After the 3-6 start, the Suns won an astonishing 15 straight, dropped two of three, then won another 10 straight (and counting). Once they started rolling over everybody, Marion accepted his new role as the drummer. For now. Let's see how he feels in five months. But as long as he's happy, Phoenix's top six players surpass anything we've seen since Magic-Kareem-Worthy-Cooper-Scott-Thompson/Green or Bird-Parish-McHale-Johnson-Ainge-Walton. Just look at these guys. It's insane."

[Charlie Smithy!]

He talked about wasted possessions and young guys. Didn’t like to see him deflecting that blame on them. He was just as guilty.

And it was a "young" player that bailed him out; he went one on one and jacked up a crappy double-clutch bankshot that Ayton rebounded, got fouled, and nailed two free throws.

Coach Paul still has Clipper stink on him. Same kind of mentality that created problems there.

Yerp.

[Nodack]

The fact that Paul and Booker haven’t gotten their act together and we are still in this position is encouraging. Bridges and Cam J are doing very well. Our bench is playing great. Ayton is starting to grow a pair. They are figuring it out. Paul and Booker seem like they have sacrificed a little of their game to get other guys going. Those two will get it together like they have their whole careers. There is a lot of room for improvement and time to get there.

It is entertainment. Take time to enjoy the journey.