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Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:35 pm
by Split T
I’d be blown away if we somehow got KD without giving up either of the twins. I’m hoping to keep 1, expecting that 1 would most likely be Cam J, but think we might have to give up both.
The one thing that might be in our favor is KD kinda picking his team. I know he doesn’t have any official say, but my guess is that behind the scenes he certainly will and I’m hoping it’s Phoenix where he wants to be.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:57 pm
by Split T
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 pm
by Shabazz
Do we know yet if Durant is a James Jones type of player? For starters, I'm not sure he has what it takes to date Monty's daughter.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:10 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:26 am
I voted that I think they'll trade him and I'll add to the wild stabs in the dark about what James Jones will do.
Suns - Kevin Durant
Spurs - Deandre Ayton (4yr/$140M-ish)
Hawks - DeJounte Murry, Jae Crowder
Nets - John Collins, (Hawks role player), Cam Johnson, (Suns role player)
I don't know how these teams value draft picks in trades but I'd guess the Suns, and definitely the Hawks, would lose picks. I could see up to 3 picks going to Brooklyn in this kind of deal. The value would probably depend a lot on which role players the Nets requested. I'm not putting Mikal in that group if it wasn't obvious. Atlanta would probably say the same about Hunter and Okongwu.
Looks great for everyone except the Nets, so it's obviously a nuclear option for them. We'll see how desperate they have to get.
The Spurs are only allowed to offer him $131 million.
He is talking about a S&T. So the Suns would be the one signing him.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:33 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:10 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:26 am
I voted that I think they'll trade him and I'll add to the wild stabs in the dark about what James Jones will do.
Suns - Kevin Durant
Spurs - Deandre Ayton (4yr/$140M-ish)
Hawks - DeJounte Murry, Jae Crowder
Nets - John Collins, (Hawks role player), Cam Johnson, (Suns role player)
I don't know how these teams value draft picks in trades but I'd guess the Suns, and definitely the Hawks, would lose picks. I could see up to 3 picks going to Brooklyn in this kind of deal. The value would probably depend a lot on which role players the Nets requested. I'm not putting Mikal in that group if it wasn't obvious. Atlanta would probably say the same about Hunter and Okongwu.
Looks great for everyone except the Nets, so it's obviously a nuclear option for them. We'll see how desperate they have to get.
The Spurs are only allowed to offer him $131 million.
He is talking about a S&T. So the Suns would be the one signing him.
Yeah but that is no longer allowed under the CBA (which disincentivizes sign-and-trades now):
1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.
Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why ... are-2.html
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:37 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:10 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:26 am
I voted that I think they'll trade him and I'll add to the wild stabs in the dark about what James Jones will do.
Suns - Kevin Durant
Spurs - Deandre Ayton (4yr/$140M-ish)
Hawks - DeJounte Murry, Jae Crowder
Nets - John Collins, (Hawks role player), Cam Johnson, (Suns role player)
I don't know how these teams value draft picks in trades but I'd guess the Suns, and definitely the Hawks, would lose picks. I could see up to 3 picks going to Brooklyn in this kind of deal. The value would probably depend a lot on which role players the Nets requested. I'm not putting Mikal in that group if it wasn't obvious. Atlanta would probably say the same about Hunter and Okongwu.
Looks great for everyone except the Nets, so it's obviously a nuclear option for them. We'll see how desperate they have to get.
The Spurs are only allowed to offer him $131 million.
He is talking about a S&T. So the Suns would be the one signing him.
Yeah but that is no longer allowed under the CBA (which disincentivizes sign-and-trades now):
1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.
Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why ... are-2.html
Oh, I totally missed that. So the most he can make now is 5% raises for 4 years (30.5/32/33.6/35.3==131.4M) from anyone? Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:42 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:37 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:10 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:26 am
I voted that I think they'll trade him and I'll add to the wild stabs in the dark about what James Jones will do.
Suns - Kevin Durant
Spurs - Deandre Ayton (4yr/$140M-ish)
Hawks - DeJounte Murry, Jae Crowder
Nets - John Collins, (Hawks role player), Cam Johnson, (Suns role player)
I don't know how these teams value draft picks in trades but I'd guess the Suns, and definitely the Hawks, would lose picks. I could see up to 3 picks going to Brooklyn in this kind of deal. The value would probably depend a lot on which role players the Nets requested. I'm not putting Mikal in that group if it wasn't obvious. Atlanta would probably say the same about Hunter and Okongwu.
Looks great for everyone except the Nets, so it's obviously a nuclear option for them. We'll see how desperate they have to get.
The Spurs are only allowed to offer him $131 million.
He is talking about a S&T. So the Suns would be the one signing him.
Yeah but that is no longer allowed under the CBA (which disincentivizes sign-and-trades now):
1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.
Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why ... are-2.html
Oh, I totally missed that. So the most he can make now is 5% raises for 4 years (30.5/32/33.6/35.3==131.4M) from anyone? Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Yes. Anyone except the Suns that is. The Suns can still offer anywhere between that and the full Bird Rights max if they wanted to.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:44 pm
by Superbone
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 pm
Do we know yet if Durant is a James Jones type of player? For starters, I'm not sure he has what it takes to date Monty's daughter.
I guess I missed something. Been seeing this over and over. Please explain.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:45 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:42 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:37 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:10 pm
The Spurs are only allowed to offer him $131 million.
He is talking about a S&T. So the Suns would be the one signing him.
Yeah but that is no longer allowed under the CBA (which disincentivizes sign-and-trades now):
1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.
Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why ... are-2.html
Oh, I totally missed that. So the most he can make now is 5% raises for 4 years (30.5/32/33.6/35.3==131.4M) from anyone? Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Yes. Anyone except the Suns that is. The Suns can still offer anywhere between that and the full Bird Rights max if they wanted to.
But can't do it as part of a sign and trade... And if nobody else can offer him anywhere near it, then why do it? Especially if it is true that a lot of this stems from him wanting to be a 4 instead of a 5.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:46 pm
by Indy
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:44 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 pm
Do we know yet if Durant is a James Jones type of player? For starters, I'm not sure he has what it takes to date Monty's daughter.
I guess I missed something. Been seeing this over and over. Please explain.
Monty said Shamet was the type of person he would want to marry his daughter when we gave up a pick and a player and signed him to a multi-year contract before he ever played a minute for us.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:47 pm
by Superbone
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:46 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:44 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:10 pm
Do we know yet if Durant is a James Jones type of player? For starters, I'm not sure he has what it takes to date Monty's daughter.
I guess I missed something. Been seeing this over and over. Please explain.
Monty said Shamet was the type of person he would want to marry his daughter when we gave up a pick and a player and signed him to a multi-year contract before he ever played a minute for us.
OK, thanks.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:57 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:45 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:42 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:37 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm
He is talking about a S&T. So the Suns would be the one signing him.
Yeah but that is no longer allowed under the CBA (which disincentivizes sign-and-trades now):
1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.
Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why ... are-2.html
Oh, I totally missed that. So the most he can make now is 5% raises for 4 years (30.5/32/33.6/35.3==131.4M) from anyone? Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Yes. Anyone except the Suns that is. The Suns can still offer anywhere between that and the full Bird Rights max if they wanted to.
But can't do it as part of a sign and trade... And if nobody else can offer him anywhere near it, then why do it? Especially if it is true that a lot of this stems from him wanting to be a 4 instead of a 5.
If he's the one asking out and Jones wants to keep him, he could convince him to stay by offering more money instead of just matching and forcing him to stay. But yeah it's more likely for a team to offer more money for an unrestricted free agent in order to get them to stay. But the rule was put into place to make it easier for teams to be able to hold onto their own players.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
by Indy
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:11 pm
by Cap
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
If salary is the reason they want to go work for a competitor, then offering them a raise to stay might make sense.
If, on the other hand, it’s because they’re looking for a promotion and more featured position than you can offer them, or because they’re not getting along with their coworkers, then you have to let them go.
I think. Not that I know anything about running a business.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm
by Indy
Cap wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:11 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
If salary is the reason they want to go work for a competitor, then offering them a raise to stay might make sense.
If, on the other hand, it’s because they’re looking for a promotion and more featured position than you can offer them, or because they’re not getting along with their coworkers, then you have to let them go.
I think. Not that I know anything about running a business.
Yeah, good point. I just haven't seen anyone leave for such a small difference in pay. Didn't Jones say they were willing to offer the 4 year max to him last summer? That is more than he can get now.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm
by specialsauce
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
You can ask him to honor his 90 day notice.
He’s a RFA. Honor it. Rather sign the QO, find us a sign and trade that improves our team as well, or we match.
DA can leave on his free will in a year. Until then , he has a contractual obligation to us. It’s just good business. We’re not in a position to let an asset just go.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:15 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
You can ask him to honor his 90 day notice.
He’s a RFA. Honor it. Rather sign the QO, find us a sign and trade that improves our team as well, or we match.
DA can leave on his free will in a year. Until then , he has a contractual obligation to us. It’s just good business. We’re not in a position to let an asset just go.
That's too ruthless to do in the NBA, and former players James Jones and Monty Williams know how it would be perceived by other players around the league.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:17 pm
by Cap
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:11 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
If salary is the reason they want to go work for a competitor, then offering them a raise to stay might make sense.
If, on the other hand, it’s because they’re looking for a promotion and more featured position than you can offer them, or because they’re not getting along with their coworkers, then you have to let them go.
I think. Not that I know anything about running a business.
Yeah, good point. I just haven't seen anyone leave for such a small difference in pay. Didn't Jones say they were willing to offer the 4 year max to him last summer? That is more than he can get now.
I don’t think Jones ever said any such thing. Ayton said he wanted the five year max and wouldn’t accept anything else. The Suns said no. If they made a counteroffer, they didn’t publicly disclose it.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:20 pm
by Indy
Cap wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:17 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:11 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
If salary is the reason they want to go work for a competitor, then offering them a raise to stay might make sense.
If, on the other hand, it’s because they’re looking for a promotion and more featured position than you can offer them, or because they’re not getting along with their coworkers, then you have to let them go.
I think. Not that I know anything about running a business.
Yeah, good point. I just haven't seen anyone leave for such a small difference in pay. Didn't Jones say they were willing to offer the 4 year max to him last summer? That is more than he can get now.
I don’t think Jones ever said any such thing. Ayton said he wanted the five year max and wouldn’t accept anything else. The Suns said no. If they made a counteroffer, they didn’t publicly disclose it.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... jones-says
Jones explained the situation to Amick:
"We know it's important to us; it's important to him that we continue to progress and we continue to develop and we win [a title]. So when we talked about a focus this offseason, it was to continue to build this team. So for us, unfortunately, we are where we are [with Ayton]. No agreement. We didn't have real negotiations.
"You talk about conversations [with Ayton's representatives] — it was five year, max extension like the other peers, the other former No. 1 picks, and that's where the conversation started and ended. Anything less than a five-year max wasn't something to be considered — not something to talk about. It's evident. They talk about us having discussions on a three-year, four-year max [deals]. Those are real."
The 2018 No. 1 overall pick wanted a five-year maximum contract offer, per ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski and Brian Windhorst, which would have been worth a guaranteed $172.5 million.
Ayton's agents Bill Duffy and Nima Namakian told The Athletic on Tuesday that the Suns never offered their client a max deal. According to ESPN, Phoenix floated the idea of a shorter maximum deal over three or four years but never formally made the offer.
Re: Deandre Ayton's future with the Suns?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:22 pm
by Indy
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm
If an employee says they want to quit to go work for a competitor, and you say, but I will give you 3% more per year to try and keep them... not a smart move. Let the person leave and wish them success. They clearly don't want to be there. Paying extra for a disgruntled employee only hurts morale and team chemistry.
You can ask him to honor his 90 day notice.
He’s a RFA. Honor it. Rather sign the QO, find us a sign and trade that improves our team as well, or we match.
DA can leave on his free will in a year. Until then , he has a contractual obligation to us. It’s just good business. We’re not in a position to let an asset just go.
I wasn't saying don't match. I was saying it would be dumb for the Suns to now sign him to the max contract.