Game Day: Cavs (19-9) @ Suns (12-29), Mon 12/28/15

[MightyMoog]

I really wish we'd stop playing price. Booker is way better on both ends of the floor already. Give him some more run and whatever is left, give it to Archie. Let's see what he's got, or hasn't got.

On another note I still think the biggest mistake we made was letting Ish go and signing IT. We could've had the better fit for our team at a fraction of the cost.

[pickle]

This may not be popular opinion, but I'm not sure that I'd agree with that statement. Of course, given the state of our franchise right now, where we should be rebuilding, that may be debatable, but there's no doubt in my mind that IT is a better player. His style of shoot first, second, and third and pass only when triple teamed is probably not the healthiest for a collective group of low IQ basketball players, but he is undoubtedly a superior talent.

Most pundits feel (and in this case I agree with them) that we could've gotten more than a Cleveland first rounder for IT when we moved him, whereas Ish Smith has been bouncing around the league and even for a team that desperately needs guard play and is loaded with draft picks, they only had to send two second rounders for him.

Ish is a good player with some outstanding strengths, but the overall package is not quite the same as Isaiah.

[Ring_Wanted]

There is absolutely no question Thomas is orders of magnitude a better player than Ish, but the point would be that adding IT3 made things unmanageable from a rotation standpoint, unlike opting for just keeping Ish. There was simply not enough room for Dragic-Bledsoe-IT3. The juggling included Dragic having to play nominally SF in a 3 PG lineup; that tells everything you need to know.

Diminishing returns hit the Suns hard. To add insult to the injury, the franchise had just spent a mid 1stR on a loaded draft yet on another PG.

One lesson I get from that saga is that sometimes it pays off to go with stability and intangibles over perceived value.

[djy2j]

Great effort last night. Almost pulled it off. Despite losing is to our advantage I would have loved to beat the Cavs.

Despite the effort the defense is soooooo bad. Rotations/help defense is just abysmal. If Cleveland wanted to shoot a wide open 3 every possession they could have. And they did for the most part.

Ronnie Price or PJ Tucker having the ball at the end of the shot clock, I JUST...DON'T...GET IT.

Most of PJ's drives end up blocked or a TO that starts a fast break for the other team.

[Indy]

I am so happy we lost that game the way we did. We were legitimately in the game in the last 2 minutes, had a chance to win, but didn't. We get a good game of mostly well-played and well-coached basketball, but also get closer to a high draft pick. Win-win-win.

[djy2j]

Hornacek accused Dellavedova of suckering the referees into making a wrong call on Suns centre Tyson Chandler when the game was in the balance in the final minute. “I’m sure whether it was legal, illegal, I can guarantee Dellavedova probably pulled Tyson,” Hornacek, who opened his post-game press conference by targeting Dellavedova, said. “It’s the trick. You watch these games on tape, he does it all the time. “So I guess that’s a smart play. He suckered the guy into calling it.”
– via SBS

The problem for Hornacek was Dellavedova was sitting on the bench during the crucial play.
– via SBS

Sums up how things are going. Coach can't even get the player right that he's trying to bitch about. God, we're dumb.

[Mori Chu]

This is an unintelligent team and franchise. Top to bottom.

[Superbone]

This is an unintelligent team and franchise. Top to bottom.

I think that's a little extreme.

[Cap]

Brandon Knight is supposed to be a very smart guy. Just maybe not the right kind of smart.

[Superbone]

McDonough and Hornacek aren't stupid but sometimes you wonder what they're thinking (or not).

[SwingMan]

This is an unintelligent team and franchise. Top to bottom.

I think that's a little extreme.

No it's not - this is the dumbest team (court IQ) that we've ever seen rolled out and nobody escapes responsibility.....

[Shabazz]

This is an unintelligent team and franchise. Top to bottom.

I think that's a little extreme.

No it's not - this is the dumbest team (court IQ) that we've ever seen rolled out and nobody escapes responsibility.....

Lest we forget:

[Superbone]

Case closed.

[SwingMan]

I'm talking about the team as a whole, not 1 player or 1 weasel of a coach. 2012-2013 was a disaster, to be sure, but the overall IQ never approached the depths of this season.....

[Indy]

This is an unintelligent team and franchise. Top to bottom.

I think that's a little extreme.

No it's not - this is the dumbest team (court IQ) that we've ever seen rolled out and nobody escapes responsibility.....

Lest we forget:

[ Image ]

Exactly.

[Indy]

I'm talking about the team as a whole, not 1 player or 1 weasel of a coach. 2012-2013 was a disaster, to be sure, but the overall IQ never approached the depths of this season.....

I think you are over-estimating the basketball ignorance of that team. And keep in mind we still have Sarver and Babby from that team.

[SwingMan]

Whatever - we're obviously watching 2 different teams this season then, as I'm seeing a team that personifies the definition of insanity: Trying the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results. 2012-2013 didn't have that - all but 2 players on that team were just bad, not utterly stupid as displayed this year.....

[Split T]

I'd argue that although not as devoid of talent as 2012, this team just isn't that good. There is no one on this team that is as basketball dumb as Beasley and I'd take Horny over Hunter any day.

I guess I'm just not seeing the stupidity that everyone else is. Morris isn't playing stupid, he just doesn't care. Tucker may not be a high IQ player, but his main problem is that he sucks at basketball. Bledsoe and Knight are turnover prone, which doesn't necessarily mean low IQ. I think we just want them to be Nash. Which I'm glad they aren't trying to be. That would be stupid.

Booker, Warren, and Len still make young mistakes, but they show potential for being smart basketball players. Booker and Warren more so than Len. Chandler, Price, and Leuer all seem to be smart basketball players.

So I think the biggest problems are that we're used to having Nash and Kidd and KJ at pg and that skews our opinion of knight and bled. And that we just have too many players that just aren't that good at basketball.

[pickle]

There is absolutely no question Thomas is orders of magnitude a better player than Ish, but the point would be that adding IT3 made things unmanageable from a rotation standpoint, unlike opting for just keeping Ish. There was simply not enough room for Dragic-Bledsoe-IT3. The juggling included Dragic having to play nominally SF in a 3 PG lineup; that tells everything you need to know.

Diminishing returns hit the Suns hard. To add insult to the injury, the franchise had just spent a mid 1stR on a loaded draft yet on another PG.

One lesson I get from that saga is that sometimes it pays off to go with stability and intangibles over perceived value.

You are right. I mis-read the original statement. He said we would have had the better fit with IT and for some reason my brain registered that as better player. I stand corrected.

The whole point guard exercise, I always saw as a fall back for if Bledsoe didn't sign. So I understand the signing of IT. However, the Ennis pick was historically bad. I guess we were trying to hold him over Toronto's head or something? I mean this approaches Minnesota picking two pgs with Rubio on the roster bad. Maybe the front office can learn the lesson that too much maneuvering eventually comes back to bite yourself in the butt?

[pickle]

I am so happy we lost that game the way we did. We were legitimately in the game in the last 2 minutes, had a chance to win, but didn't. We get a good game of mostly well-played and well-coached basketball, but also get closer to a high draft pick. Win-win-win.

Indy, you and I are on the exact same page as far as our opinions of the Suns right now.