Suns News: Offseason

[In2ition]

What's the thoughts behind adding FVV to the team that already has Rubio?

Having multiple good PGs is better than having only 1, and contribute to winning. We saw how having a bad PG as your backup, killed the bench production and killed the team in the end.

We also saw what having multiple PGs that expect to be starters running the team does to a team. I don't know which is right.

Seemed like Dragic and Bledsoe worked, but adding that 3rd PG was just 1 too many cooks in the kitchen.(plus, didn't they draft Tyler Ennis too? Holy $h!t, McDonough was bad at his job.)

[Shabazz]

1 - I wouldn't trade Oubre to move up in a draft where we have a decent shot at getting as good of a prospect at #10 as is available at #2. Certainly we have a good shot at getting better value from #10, when you consider expected salaries.

2 - If we made a move for FVV, I'd want to get rid of Rubio, not Oubre.

[Shabazz]

I really like the idea of a swap centered around Oubre and Lauri/Sato. I don't know if Chicago would bite, but if we could do that without giving up our pick and brought back our other free agents, we'd have some really nice depth.

Rubio/Booker/Mikal/Lauri/DA
Sato/Vassel?/Cam/Dario/Baynes
Payne/Carter/[cheap big man FA]

[In2ition]

Oubre just to move up in a bad draft year? I think he has a lot more value than that.

No, not exactly. The main component is to open cap space for FVV and add another player.

Sure, but I would want a future pick or something as well.

I'm thinking if you have Rubio, FVV, Booker along with Payne and Carter, I might pivot and try to do a sign & trade with Detroit with future picks & the TPE for Wood.
In this scenario, you would get MIN pick from GSW instead of the pick swap.

So, if Vassell drops to 10, you take him.
Rubio/FVV/Payne
Booker/FVV/Carter
Bridges/Cam/Vassell
Wood/Cam/Bridges/Saric
Ayton/Saric/Wood

[Indy]

We're in the playoffs this year if Ayton doesn't go bonehead and get suspended. And we saw some actual development from Bridges and Cam in Orlando. Warriors, Grizz, Pels and Blazers don't scare me as much next year. They just don't. And I just don't think FVV moves the needle to where we're a lock with him over the rest of the guys we'd potentially have to get rid of.

I think that is a very rosy way of looking at it.

When the season suspended, we were 26-39 for .400. (13th place)

For the 25 games during his suspension, we went 10-15, or .400.

So whether we had Ayton or not, we played at .400 until the bubble. We were awesome there, but I don't think that if the season played out normally we would have finished the season that well. Even if we played our final 17 games at 70% and end up at 38 wins, we miss the playoffs.

I just can't see running back the same team us getting past the 8 teams in front of us today, plus the Warriors, plus an improved Western conference.

[Indy]

What's the thoughts behind adding FVV to the team that already has Rubio?

Having multiple good PGs is better than having only 1, and contribute to winning. We saw how having a bad PG as your backup, killed the bench production and killed the team in the end.

But do you really want to be spending over 40M a year on two PGs?

[In2ition]

What's the thoughts behind adding FVV to the team that already has Rubio?

Having multiple good PGs is better than having only 1, and contribute to winning. We saw how having a bad PG as your backup, killed the bench production and killed the team in the end.

But do you really want to be spending over 40M a year on two PGs?

For 2 more yrs, absolutely YES!

[Cap]

Seen Golden State talk of Oubre and 10 for 2. That clears the cap space to sign FVV outright. Plus whatever you decide to do at 2.

How about #10 and Oubre to GS
#2 to Detroit
Kennard and #7 to PHX.

Sign FVV, draft Vassell.

FVV, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton
Rubio, Kennard, Vassell, Saric

This is pretty good, and you could still bring back Carter and Payne. You would have to have it worked out with Detroit ahead of time, since you would use the TPE from the Oubre trade for Kennard after the salary cap space is used.

Doesn’t work that way. You have to renounce the TPE to get the cap room.

[Indy]

I just don't see the value there. I don't see the need to have them both on the roster, and I would happily take FVV's ability and playoff experience over Rubio. I would much rather shore up the guard rotation and sign a backup 4/5 with that 17M.

[Split T]

Seen Golden State talk of Oubre and 10 for 2. That clears the cap space to sign FVV outright. Plus whatever you decide to do at 2.

How about #10 and Oubre to GS
#2 to Detroit
Kennard and #7 to PHX.

Sign FVV, draft Vassell.

FVV, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton
Rubio, Kennard, Vassell, Saric

This is pretty good, and you could still bring back Carter and Payne. You would have to have it worked out with Detroit ahead of time, since you would use the TPE from the Oubre trade for Kennard after the salary cap space is used.

Doesn’t work that way. You have to renounce the TPE to get the cap room.

Don’t need to. Kennard only costs 5 million. Dumping oubre into the GS trade exception saves 14 million. You add some salary moving from 10 to 7, but could still have enough to give FVV the max.


19 million in space pre trade. Add 14 by dumping Oubre. 33 million. Subtract 5 for Kennard and 1 for the draft pick. Now we’re at 27 million. I wouldn’t max FVV, I’d give him 20, which gives you 7 to bring back Saric.

If you can add Jerome into the trade you can free up 2 more million.

[In2ition]

Seen Golden State talk of Oubre and 10 for 2. That clears the cap space to sign FVV outright. Plus whatever you decide to do at 2.

How about #10 and Oubre to GS
#2 to Detroit
Kennard and #7 to PHX.

Sign FVV, draft Vassell.

FVV, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton
Rubio, Kennard, Vassell, Saric

This is pretty good, and you could still bring back Carter and Payne. You would have to have it worked out with Detroit ahead of time, since you would use the TPE from the Oubre trade for Kennard after the salary cap space is used.

Doesn’t work that way. You have to renounce the TPE to get the cap room.

Hmm, I thought that was for the MLE.

[Mori Chu]

I for one cannot wait to have a roster with two expensive starting PGs who both think they are the primary PG of the team! Our history as a franchise says that such an arrangement always works out beautifully.

I also hope we can find a TJ Warren-esque trade for Oubre. But can we find a team willing to accept him plus our draft pick for cash / nothing? That'll take some serious GM mojo on our part.

#hoping #2021champs

[Split T]

I just don't see the value there. I don't see the need to have them both on the roster, and I would happily take FVV's ability and playoff experience over Rubio. I would much rather shore up the guard rotation and sign a backup 4/5 with that 17M.

Doesn’t FVV shore up the guard rotation? Do you not think he and Rubio can play together?

I think adding FVV is a no brainer. I’d rather do it by moving Rubio than Oubre, but think that’s less likely. And more risky. Moving Oubre allows us to just simply add FVV to the bubble Suns. If we don’t get FVV, we still bring back the entire bubble suns plus whatever we do with draft/FA. If we move Rubio, we run the risk of not having a pg again.

[Split T]

I for one cannot wait to have a roster with two expensive starting PGs who both think they are the primary PG of the team! Our history as a franchise says that such an arrangement always works out beautifully.

I also hope we can find a TJ Warren-esque trade for Oubre. But can we find a team willing to accept him plus our draft pick for cash / nothing? That'll take some serious GM mojo on our part.

#hoping #2021champs

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

[Mori Chu]

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

Good point! Luckily we don't have a good starting SG, so we can slot FVV right in alongside Rubio. It's perfect!! #champs #fvvtosuns

[3rdside]

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

Good point! Luckily we don't have a good starting SG, so we can slot FVV right in alongside Rubio. It's perfect!! #champs #fvvtosuns

So long as they all buy into the team concept it can work - Rubio's pretty passive and would easily do what's asked of him.

IT was an aggressive, mouthy, point to prove dude with little man syndrome .. coupled with the Morris brother's penchant for disruption it was a recipe for disaster (and ultimately McD's defining moment, arguably more so than Ayton over Doncic, as it proved he didn't have a clue when it came roster construction nor the importance of building on something that works).

And Rubio goes expiring next year anyway.

[Split T]

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

Good point! Luckily we don't have a good starting SG, so we can slot FVV right in alongside Rubio. It's perfect!! #champs #fvvtosuns

OKC manages to do it with 3 guards. There’s 96 minutes at guard. 36 to Booker, 32 to FVV, 28 to Rubio. You can do that without playing any of them at the 3.

[3rdside]

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

Good point! Luckily we don't have a good starting SG, so we can slot FVV right in alongside Rubio. It's perfect!! #champs #fvvtosuns

OKC manages to do it with 3 guards. There’s 96 minutes at guard. 36 to Booker, 32 to FVV, 28 to Rubio. You can do that without playing any of them at the 3.

Which is what happened to Dragic if i'm not mistaken.

[Split T]

Do people not realize FVV has been playing alongside Kyle Lowry the last two years? How come OKC is successful running CP3/Schroeder/SGA lineups? Dragic/Bledsoe worked well before IT.

Good point! Luckily we don't have a good starting SG, so we can slot FVV right in alongside Rubio. It's perfect!! #champs #fvvtosuns

OKC manages to do it with 3 guards. There’s 96 minutes at guard. 36 to Booker, 32 to FVV, 28 to Rubio. You can do that without playing any of them at the 3.

Which is what happened to Dragic if i'm not mistaken.

Yes, not everyone was on the same page back then. All 3 were better with the ball in their hands. Dragic was the best off the ball and got relegated to off ball because of that, even though he was probably the best on ball of the 3 too.

This situation is different, Booker is very good off ball, so is VanVleet, even Rubio showed he can hit shots this year. Even still, you put Rubio on the bench and he’s gonna play a lot of minutes on ball. It keeps his minutes down in the mid to high 20’s which keeps him healthy and fresh. It keeps a ball handler on the court when Booker rests.

The downside is dumping oubre for nothing if FVV isn’t interested.

[In2ition]

Yeah, seems like you would have to have some assurances that FVV was coming first. Not like the Tyson Chandler debacle.