Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Superbone
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Superbone »

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:28 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Plus, it's very hard to know the value of that Miami pick at this point in time. Acting like you do is dubious at best.
We don't know. That's the point. But the fact that is unprotected and that it is looking it is going to be a loaded draft and seeing how mediocre that Miami team is right now without any significant high level talent on it, I like the value of the pick just fine, enough so to either hold on to it, or to use it for something more than someone who is going to be playing behind Devin Booker and Josh Jackson.
I don't think he will be. I think all three will start. Maybe not immediately but in due time. I think you are severely underestimating what his impact will be on the Suns but time will tell.
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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Shabazz wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:24 pm
For me the issue with the pick (and he Lakers one) was always one of opportunity cost. Like Brett Brown said, that’s a “star hunting” asset, a piece to be used when the next disgruntled star becomes available. If we’re not able to put together a competitive offer the next time one of those guys is out there, that will have been the cost of the trade.

I still don’t quite know if I dislike it though. It’s much better than the Knight trade for me.
Exactly. The value of that pick is precisely that, for the time being, you don't know what will end up being. That includes the notion that MIA is carrying a number of questionable contracts on mediocre parts, that Hassan is buitting heads with Spo, that they can't crack the top of the East and that a couple of injuries or regressions to the mean here and there mean you can expect a lotto pick. That's value TODAY, especially for teams that will be looking for a future if/when they are forced to trade a star. You don't give up that for a 3D role player. Just look at national analysis, or check other forums and see how 76rs and other teams' fans are reacting. The only way this is a sound move for PHX is if Mikal blows up and trascend that 3D status, which everybody wants of course, but remains to be seen. And this is not even getting deeper into how another swingman impacts the current roster composition. Or the relative value of Zhaire (or DiVincenzo).

I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:45 pm
I think you are severely underestimating what his impact will be on the Suns but time will tell.
I wish I was wrongly doing this too. I have real hope because the guy is fundamentally sound, a good athlete and by all accounts, a true pro. And he will be coming with fire after being dumped by his home team. But at the time it doesn't look good. Just cracking the starting five will be tough.

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Cap
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
If Bridges is nothing special, it was a bad trade. McD presumably made the deal because he was confident in his evaluation of Bridges and what he can contribute to this team. If he’s wrong, yeah, it looks bad for him.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Mori Chu »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Many of you guys overvalue these draft picks. If Bridges becomes the player I think he's going to become for us, it was a fair trade. Plus, it's very hard to know the value of that Miami pick at this point in time. Acting like you do is dubious at best. There is a very good chance that a player of Bridges' caliber will not be available with that pick. Also, we need players now. Eight years of playoff drought are enough. Time to start going in the right direction.
I agree with this post.

It drove me crazy when we traded that Lakers pick for Brandon Knight, but that was because (a) Knight was a multi-year NBA vet so his value was much more clear, and he clearly wasn't a star; and (b) that Lakers pick was going to be a great pick, so it was unwise to squander it on such a mediocre asset; and (c) Knight would have been an FA soon anyway, and the Bucks had been telegraphing that they didn't want to re-sign Knight, so we could have just pursued signing him in free agency if we wanted him so badly.

It also drove me crazy when we traded Bogdan and other assets to get the #8 pick to draft Chriss. But that was more because I didn't like Chriss as a prospect (seemed all athlete to me, not good enough at rebounding, defense, or shooting to be a great PF as a pro).

If you get a good asset, I don't mind trading a pick. It's all about expected value. I really like Bridges, based on what I have seen and read. And we *really* need more guys who can do what he does: shoot and defend. We are dreadful at both of those things. That's worth spending the expected value of the Miami pick to me. I don't think the Miami pick will be top-5 or something like that, so I think it's fine to surrender it. And I had very little interest in the Italian or in Zhaire Smith, so this is much better return on our second pick IMO.

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Indy
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Cap wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
If Bridges is nothing special, it was a bad trade. McD presumably made the deal because he was confident in his evaluation of Bridges and what he can contribute to this team. If he’s wrong, yeah, it looks bad for him.
Or because he knows if he doesn't win now, he won't have a job to use that 2021 pick. Desperation might have won out over talent evaluation and what 2021 may bring.

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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by O_Gardino »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
I truly don't understand this take, but I've seen it from a couple of people.

McD sold the media (and presumably Robert Sarver) on a 3 year intentionally tanking rebuild. He has told everyone who will listen that they've "studied" rebuilding franchises and seen that longer than 3 years of rebuilding sinks franchises and instills a losing culture. He has told everyone that he expects to start winning this season. Booker left last season saying that he will not miss the playoffs again. Sarver hired James Jones to be in charge of Ryan, and Ryan has not made a decision independent of Jones' watchful eye in a while now.

McD's job was 100% on the line this season before he made that trade. In fact, he will probably be fired this season or next even if the team turns out to be better. Just ask Hinkie.
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Split T
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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My thoughts:

Philly "won" the trade if you're going off pure value. Surely the Miami pick plus #16 is more valuable than just #10. McD obviously made the trade because if this team isn't better soon, he wouldn't be here to use that pick anyways.

I'm ok with the trade though, because I believe sometimes current value is more important than future value. I think we overpayed as I think the Milwaukee pick should have been enough compensation. I would have been in favor of just drafting Zhaire and working out the details of the trade later. Although I would have been ok keeping Zhaire, perhaps McD bdid not view him as highly. It's possible Philly never would have budged, but I think they played us a bit by calling with 30 seconds left on the clock and giving us a take it or leave it offer.

Ultimately, if you told me at the beginning of the draft that we'd come away with Ayton/Bridges/Okobo using 1/16/31/Miami pick, I'd be happy. I love Bridges and I don't think he's just a typical 3D role player. I think he can be pretty elite, closer to Klay than Ariza. He's long and while skinny right now, I think he'll be able to play 2-4 in time. Landing Okobo at 31 helped to recoup some of the value of overpaying for Bridges in my mind.

So overall for me:
Ayton - B+
Trade for Bridges - B-(A for just the player)
Okobo - A+

Overall - B+/A-

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Cap
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:57 am
Cap wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
If Bridges is nothing special, it was a bad trade. McD presumably made the deal because he was confident in his evaluation of Bridges and what he can contribute to this team. If he’s wrong, yeah, it looks bad for him.
Or because he knows if he doesn't win now, he won't have a job to use that 2021 pick. Desperation might have won out over talent evaluation and what 2021 may bring.
He went for a rookie whose position is not a particular need. If it were the kind of desperation you describe, wouldn’t he have used the assets for a vet?

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:03 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
I truly don't understand this take, but I've seen it from a couple of people.

McD sold the media (and presumably Robert Sarver) on a 3 year intentionally tanking rebuild. He has told everyone who will listen that they've "studied" rebuilding franchises and seen that longer than 3 years of rebuilding sinks franchises and instills a losing culture. He has told everyone that he expects to start winning this season. Booker left last season saying that he will not miss the playoffs again. Sarver hired James Jones to be in charge of Ryan, and Ryan has not made a decision independent of Jones' watchful eye in a while now.

McD's job was 100% on the line this season before he made that trade. In fact, he will probably be fired this season or next even if the team turns out to be better. Just ask Hinkie.
The point is that unless Mikal is a homerun and the team actually starts to win, McD will be fired because he wasted a premium asset to acquire a role player. Had McD not traded up for Mikal, or not paid so much, his job would be much safer (I believe he'd need just moderate improvement and a funny style from his new coach).

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jonh
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by jonh »

Cap wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:06 am
Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:57 am
Cap wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
If Bridges is nothing special, it was a bad trade. McD presumably made the deal because he was confident in his evaluation of Bridges and what he can contribute to this team. If he’s wrong, yeah, it looks bad for him.
Or because he knows if he doesn't win now, he won't have a job to use that 2021 pick. Desperation might have won out over talent evaluation and what 2021 may bring.
He went for a rookie whose position is not a particular need. If it were the kind of desperation you describe, wouldn’t he have used the assets for a vet?
I dont think so, because McD's pitch is about potential, not current performance. If the pieces suck this year, thats because they are so young that they are supposed to--think about what they could BE (in a couple of years). That one idea has allowed him to keep his job while creating the league's worst team for the past 3 years. Going with a veteran undermines the whole argument, because not only does the team suck, but the player is not likely to get better.

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Cap
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Cap »

jonh wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:16 am
Cap wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:06 am
Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:57 am
Cap wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
If Bridges is nothing special, it was a bad trade. McD presumably made the deal because he was confident in his evaluation of Bridges and what he can contribute to this team. If he’s wrong, yeah, it looks bad for him.
Or because he knows if he doesn't win now, he won't have a job to use that 2021 pick. Desperation might have won out over talent evaluation and what 2021 may bring.
He went for a rookie whose position is not a particular need. If it were the kind of desperation you describe, wouldn’t he have used the assets for a vet?
I dont think so, because McD's pitch is about potential, not current performance. If the pieces suck this year, thats because they are so young that they are supposed to--think about what they could BE (in a couple of years). That one idea has allowed him to keep his job while creating the league's worst team for the past 3 years. Going with a veteran undermines the whole argument, because not only does the team suck, but the player is not likely to get better.
Oh. Well in that case, Bridges is too old. He’s older than most of our likely rotation! Especially if we move Old Man Warren to make room for him. :)

Gotta be weird being a rookie in that position.

Older than Ayton, Bender, Chriss, JJ, and Okobo, and two months younger than Booker.

Oh well, a rook’s a rook. Still gotta bring the doughnuts.

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Superbone
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Ring_Wanted wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:14 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:03 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 pm
I truly believe McD's has gambled his job with this move. After the LAL pick, you can't keep supporting him if this move doesn't workout starting this very season.
I truly don't understand this take, but I've seen it from a couple of people.

McD sold the media (and presumably Robert Sarver) on a 3 year intentionally tanking rebuild. He has told everyone who will listen that they've "studied" rebuilding franchises and seen that longer than 3 years of rebuilding sinks franchises and instills a losing culture. He has told everyone that he expects to start winning this season. Booker left last season saying that he will not miss the playoffs again. Sarver hired James Jones to be in charge of Ryan, and Ryan has not made a decision independent of Jones' watchful eye in a while now.

McD's job was 100% on the line this season before he made that trade. In fact, he will probably be fired this season or next even if the team turns out to be better. Just ask Hinkie.
The point is that unless Mikal is a homerun and the team actually starts to win, McD will be fired because he wasted a premium asset to acquire a role player. Had McD not traded up for Mikal, or not paid so much, his job would be much safer (I believe he'd need just moderate improvement and a funny style from his new coach).
A funny style will get him booted pronto. This isn't the Globetrotters. :P
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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https://twitter.com/maxmcc11/status/1011349978491510784

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Indy
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Indy »

That ball lift from his waist is so strange. I haven't watched much of him but I didn't notice it before.

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Democritus
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Democritus »

Should we worry? Man, why can't we just relax, have good time and wait for the Summer League.
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Split T
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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He did make every single shot

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Superbone
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Superbone »

Democritus wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:19 pm
Should we worry? Man, why can't we just relax, have good time and wait for the Summer League.
We can. That's what I'm doing. You are welcome to join me.
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Indy
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Split T wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:33 pm
He did make every single shot
He sure did. I just watched some of his highlights and he does that with his 3s, but obviously much faster in a game. Not nearly as noticeable when he is playing full speed.

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Superbone
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

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Indy wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:52 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:33 pm
He did make every single shot
He sure did. I just watched some of his highlights and he does that with his 3s, but obviously much faster in a game. Not nearly as noticeable when he is playing full speed.
Good to know. I was wondering if game speed was quite a bit different.
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