All Things Ayton

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Superbone
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Superbone »



Hey guys, give FLEX a break. He played the game. Not only that, he’s a dam[sic] good speller to[sic].
"Be Legendary."

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AmareIsGod
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by AmareIsGod »

Superbone wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:08 pm


Hey guys, give FLEX a break. He played the game. Not only that, he’s a dam[sic] good speller to[sic].
Lol. I love it when people claim superior knowledge because they played a sport once before, regardless of their skill level.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:58 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:39 pm
We haven’t exercised our team options on Cam Johnson or Jalen Smith yet either, should we be worried?
It's laughable that this is even being brought up to try and make a point that people are overreacting. I think far too many people on here undervalue Ayton and that's a shame.
It’s about overreacting too early. Yes some of us value Ayton differently…that’s just always going to be a thing with basically every player though. It’s the assuming our front office has already screwed the situation up when we haven’t reached rhe deadline. Throw your fits all you want after 10/18, but all these complaints may look slightly silly if we end up giving him the max before then.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by AmareIsGod »

Split T wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:17 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:58 pm
Split T wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:39 pm
We haven’t exercised our team options on Cam Johnson or Jalen Smith yet either, should we be worried?
It's laughable that this is even being brought up to try and make a point that people are overreacting. I think far too many people on here undervalue Ayton and that's a shame.
It’s about overreacting too early. Yes some of us value Ayton differently…that’s just always going to be a thing with basically every player though. It’s the assuming our front office has already screwed the situation up when we haven’t reached rhe deadline. Throw your fits all you want after 10/18, but all these complaints may look slightly silly if we end up giving him the max before then.
They've got 48 hours. We'll see.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Actually, they have almost a entire year to get Mikal’s and Ayton’s contracts signed. And once is done, drama surrounding negotiations can disappear almost immediately… to many of us is life or death (in a sports way matter), but for them, it’s just another tool, using the media as ramming carts and the fan base as hostage.

And it’s not a moot point to signal that, on the other hand, over endulging a child, can lead to the Morrii and Chriss situations all over again.

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:42 am
Actually, they have almost a entire year to get Mikal’s and Ayton’s contracts signed. And once is done, drama surrounding negotiations can disappear almost immediately… to many of us is life or death (in a sports way matter), but for them, it’s just another tool, using the media as ramming carts and the fan base as hostage.

And it’s not a moot point to signal that, on the other hand, over endulging a child, can lead to the Morrii and Chriss situations all over again.
Yes I’m not even worried if they don’t sign Ayton by the 18th. He’s going to get a max regardless and won’t get more expensive on us. Bridges though is one I’d be a little worried about as I think his price could definitely go up. He fits the “Joe Johnson” narrative better. If we really are squabbling over a few million dollars with him(I actually think we’ve got his deal locked up and just waiting to announce it) we would be smart to just give it to him. He could get even pricier.

Side note…is there a reason you can’t agree to an extension during the season? Is it just to avoid the contract stuff while the season is ongoing?

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Mori Chu
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Mori Chu »

Split T wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:03 am
Side note…is there a reason you can’t agree to an extension during the season? Is it just to avoid the contract stuff while the season is ongoing?
I mean, yeah, you can wait until the absolute last minute to sign the extension, sure. But what message does that send? If you were working at your job and they wouldn't renew your contract and you had no idea whether you were going to be able to stay working there, wouldn't that hang over you during your work day? Wouldn't you brush up your LinkedIn and resume and start doing other interviews?

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:08 am
Split T wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:03 am
Side note…is there a reason you can’t agree to an extension during the season? Is it just to avoid the contract stuff while the season is ongoing?
I mean, yeah, you can wait until the absolute last minute to sign the extension, sure. But what message does that send? If you were working at your job and they wouldn't renew your contract and you had no idea whether you were going to be able to stay working there, wouldn't that hang over you during your work day? Wouldn't you brush up your LinkedIn and resume and start doing other interviews?
I’m talking about the league rule that doesn’t allow Bridges or Ayton to agree to the extension after 10/18 and before next offseason.

But also you can communicate with Ayton that you want to keep him here without agreeing to the extension. You guys make it seem like we’re just ignoring Ayton and have no communication. And I would not be sweating at all if my job hadn’t renewed my contract knowing I was gonna get 30 million regardless.

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:52 pm
Completely agreed, I don’t care if the media or his agent is pushing for a Max contract out of a great playoffs run, you do your NBA math, and set your number. If you are a GM and don’t have the nerve to resist that pressure and cave into giving a big contract every time, specially with your RFA, you better go home. It seems there is a lot of post traumatic disorder around here after years of suffering and gut wrenching choices from the FO, but although not our money, is someone else’s money, and they have to maximize their use.

You don’t have to love your boss, in order to respect him, and sooner or later James Jones was going to be on this crossroad with the players, you can’t overpay everyone to keep them praising the team. Maxing out Ayton and figure it out later is the easy way to go, but if you know your boss is going to close the checkbook and start cutting the edges, is better to plan ahead of it.

You can bitch all you want about how cheap your boss is, but you better play your money game considering it.
He should resign if his boss won't let him do his job.
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:03 pm
The Suns are not going to field FOUR over $30mill/year players. It is what it is. I would go further and said the most efficient way to go, would be to wait out on BOTH players, max out the one that deserves it next offseason and go for a sign & trade for the other. It’s not usual business, might get tricky or even backfire to pull it off, but from a theory of games perspective, might be the way to go. Of course is not what I want from Jones.

But, I think Bridges’ extension is done, and he is just waiting for the announcement, frustrated only because he is having to wait for the Kid to stop overplaying his hand. If we are going to speculate, we could as well, read between lines a Mikal already on board and reminding Ayton that sometimes it counts more to be where you want to be, that milk out every single penny from a contract, but ending up on NBA hell.
That's a lot of reading between the lines. I would be very shocked if either player reaches a deal before the deadline.



Ok, once you get out of your shock, try to read between the line from the optic I proposed you. Mikal had already agreed on his extension and was waiting for Ayton. Milkal had already agreed to a hometown discount and telling his teammate to value staying the course over milking every available penny. Mikal was grateful that so many people were willing to keep him out of fixation over the contracts drama. I could highly speculate that he wanted the announcement earlier and separate from Ayton’s and both Sarver and Jones told him No, so Bridges had to ask them for tabs on Ayton’s advance every time they crossed paths. Or you can also conciliate that statement with a last minute agreement on a lowballed offer. But… Why would Mikal prefer that over adding up on Ayton’s attack, and join forces leaking “disappointment” over the from office and cross together the deadline?

On the other hand, this could very well mean that we will cross the deadline without an agreement on the Ayton’s front. The team splitting the announcement and leaking it today points out to me like that way.

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JeremyG
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by JeremyG »

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:28 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:52 pm
Completely agreed, I don’t care if the media or his agent is pushing for a Max contract out of a great playoffs run, you do your NBA math, and set your number. If you are a GM and don’t have the nerve to resist that pressure and cave into giving a big contract every time, specially with your RFA, you better go home. It seems there is a lot of post traumatic disorder around here after years of suffering and gut wrenching choices from the FO, but although not our money, is someone else’s money, and they have to maximize their use.

You don’t have to love your boss, in order to respect him, and sooner or later James Jones was going to be on this crossroad with the players, you can’t overpay everyone to keep them praising the team. Maxing out Ayton and figure it out later is the easy way to go, but if you know your boss is going to close the checkbook and start cutting the edges, is better to plan ahead of it.

You can bitch all you want about how cheap your boss is, but you better play your money game considering it.
He should resign if his boss won't let him do his job.
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:03 pm
The Suns are not going to field FOUR over $30mill/year players. It is what it is. I would go further and said the most efficient way to go, would be to wait out on BOTH players, max out the one that deserves it next offseason and go for a sign & trade for the other. It’s not usual business, might get tricky or even backfire to pull it off, but from a theory of games perspective, might be the way to go. Of course is not what I want from Jones.

But, I think Bridges’ extension is done, and he is just waiting for the announcement, frustrated only because he is having to wait for the Kid to stop overplaying his hand. If we are going to speculate, we could as well, read between lines a Mikal already on board and reminding Ayton that sometimes it counts more to be where you want to be, that milk out every single penny from a contract, but ending up on NBA hell.
That's a lot of reading between the lines. I would be very shocked if either player reaches a deal before the deadline.



Ok, once you get out of your shock, try to read between the line from the optic I proposed you. Mikal had already agreed on his extension and was waiting for Ayton. Milkal had already agreed to a hometown discount and telling his teammate to value staying the course over milking every available penny. Mikal was grateful that so many people were willing to keep him out of fixation over the contracts drama. I could highly speculate that he wanted the announcement earlier and separate from Ayton’s and both Sarver and Jones told him No, so Bridges had to ask them for tabs on Ayton’s advance every time they crossed paths. Or you can also conciliate that statement with a last minute agreement on a lowballed offer. But… Why would Mikal prefer that over adding up on Ayton’s attack, and join forces leaking “disappointment” over the from office and cross together the deadline?

On the other hand, this could very well mean that we will cross the deadline without an agreement on the Ayton’s front. The team splitting the announcement and leaking it today points out to me like that way.
I'm glad to be wrong on the Bridges deal. But yes, whether it was agreed to previously or agreed to today, you would think that they would ask Bridges' agents to hold off one more day before leaking it to the media if they were confident at all that they were going to get a deal done with Ayton. But perhaps, if you want to be optimistic, the agents insisted on getting it announced separately, just to highlight their client.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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JeremyG
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by JeremyG »

"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Not optimistic at all. All the opposite, but as Split said, Bridges was the one that could get out of budget next offseason. Ayton is already asking for the max, and signing an extension tomorrow is more money that getting a max offer next offseason. Obviously, the relationship might take a hit, but again, I believe Jones’ job is getting the best terms for the TEAM, without breaking up the relationship. He apparently succeeded on that with Bridges, the trickier case, let’s see how the next season unfolds with Ayton. Kid has to grow up.

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Drewsprocket
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Drewsprocket »

Ayton kept kept the Suns out of the Playoffs in 2020. I think that’s the hard truth he has to accept. With CP3 and Monty he discovered a work ethic befitting of a Max center. It’s a hard pill to swallow for him and he’s overplayed his hand. It’s not an easy thing to accept for me. As I see it, he has earned a max deal based on our Championship run and at the same time he may not deserve it.

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Indy
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Indy »

It saves money to pay Bridges now; it saves money to pay Ayton later.

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Indy
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Indy »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:10 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:04 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:41 pm
I just don't see any way that Bridges gets a max contract. He's like a 4th or 5th piece for a contending team. I love the guy, but he isn't a max player. And I really don't think other teams think he is one, either.
if he enters FA next year, he will be a top 5 FA. So teams will have to throw more money at him to get him away from others. Most people are talking about a 4/100 contract for him right now. That isn't far from a RFA max contract of 4/120.
If Ayton entered FA next year or even this year, would you consider him the top FA?
He would be one of the top guys, for sure. That is why he is going to get the max. Someone will pay him that. I just don't think the Suns should be paying him 40M/year for 5 years just because someone in front got injured.

I would be totally cool with giving him the escalators on being MVP, or even DPOY. But not 3rd team center.

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JeremyG
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:00 pm
It saves money to pay Bridges now; it saves money to pay Ayton later.
It could actually cost more if he qualifies for, and demands, the supermax.

And as for saving money if we wait: another team might not be able to/be willing to risk giving him an offer sheet knowing we'll match, so we can't count on matching a "cheaper max" (RFA offer sheet). That is very dangerous anyway--at that point he may demand we let him leave, if we won't offer him the full max that we can give him. What's the point of staying with a team that's pissed you off if they aren't even giving you any more money than other teams are offering you?

The only way I see this even possibly resolving peaceably (if we don't sign him to an extension by tomorrow) is if we offer him as much or more than he's demanding right now, next summer.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:29 pm
What's the point of staying with a team that's pissed you off if they aren't even giving you any more money than other teams are offering you?
It's not my intention to go at you for this because we hear it all the time from people in the media and sometimes people adjacent to players (agents, family, ect.)

But it's complete horseshit and makes me a little angry to think that someone who signs a contract that will pay them $150 million or more is somehow pissed off because of it.
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pickle
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by pickle »

Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:02 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:10 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:04 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:41 pm
I just don't see any way that Bridges gets a max contract. He's like a 4th or 5th piece for a contending team. I love the guy, but he isn't a max player. And I really don't think other teams think he is one, either.
if he enters FA next year, he will be a top 5 FA. So teams will have to throw more money at him to get him away from others. Most people are talking about a 4/100 contract for him right now. That isn't far from a RFA max contract of 4/120.
If Ayton entered FA next year or even this year, would you consider him the top FA?
He would be one of the top guys, for sure. That is why he is going to get the max. Someone will pay him that. I just don't think the Suns should be paying him 40M/year for 5 years just because someone in front got injured.

I would be totally cool with giving him the escalators on being MVP, or even DPOY. But not 3rd team center.
I think Fox's deal was pretty good with the escalators. We should try to reference that.

BlaCkAdDa
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by BlaCkAdDa »

Thing is waiting until next year someone could put an offer sheet out there that screws us.. could be front or rear loaded something that messes with our cap space and costs us to match ... no?

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pickle
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by pickle »

Don’t think whatever they could do can make it worse for us in terms of yearly or total cost, but I wonder if someone can throw in an early player option that would make matching a very nervous exercise.

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