Page 26 of 253
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:19 am
by Nodack
I thought Ayton was has been a little more aggressive around the basket this year so far. Last night he was visibly angry at times. A couple times he thought he was fouled and stayed at the other end of the basket complaining to the refs while the Lakers pushed the ball up costing us points. He also ended up with the ball right next to the hoop with one defender a few times and passed it out, which was irritating. Still a work in progress but, I see him attempting to be a more physical and hopefully he will improve there as we go along.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:59 am
by Superbone
Nodack wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:19 am
I thought Ayton was has been a little more aggressive around the basket this year so far. Last night he was visibly angry at times. A couple times he thought he was fouled and stayed at the other end of the basket complaining to the refs while the Lakers pushed the ball up costing us points. He also ended up with the ball right next to the hoop with one defender a few times and passed it out, which was irritating. Still a work in progress but, I see him attempting to be a more physical and hopefully he will improve there as we go along.
I was happy to see him get a little angry. I actually liked that he got a double technical with AD. However, wasn't happy with him playing the LeBron card and staying down at the offensive end while complaining to the official while his team went 4 on 5 on the defensive end.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:16 pm
by JeremyG
ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 am
Speaking of "growth", can we honestly say DA's really made any noticeable improvements offensively? His defense has definitely gotten better since he's been in the league, but I also chalk some of that up to coaching. But where's the improved post game? Where's the dribble drive faceup game? He's basically the same player on offense we've always seen. I wouldn't even care if he shot those fadeaways or FT line jumpers if he were automatic like Duncan or Ewing or KG - but he isn't. Cam and Mikal have both improved their ballhandling and dribble drive games, Payne spoke about how he needed to get craftier finishing his layups because teams figured out his lefty scoop last season. I think those are the things Monty and Jones are taking into account. If DA seemingly isn't putting the work in to improve his skills ahead of his big contract, what happens when he gets the money?
And I'm not trashing DA either, just pointing out what I'm seeing. I have no problem with him as he is because he's been good enough as a defender and rebounder. But good enough shouldn't get you a max deal.
Even if he should have been putting in more work, they don't have to leave that all up to him, if they really want him to take his game to another level offensively. I would like to see them create a specific offseason plan for his offensive development, perhaps spending a few weeks with Hakeem or somebody else who can work with him. He is very coachable and does what he is asked. Perhaps he just doesn't know what to work on during the offseason.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:24 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:16 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 am
Speaking of "growth", can we honestly say DA's really made any noticeable improvements offensively? His defense has definitely gotten better since he's been in the league, but I also chalk some of that up to coaching. But where's the improved post game? Where's the dribble drive faceup game? He's basically the same player on offense we've always seen. I wouldn't even care if he shot those fadeaways or FT line jumpers if he were automatic like Duncan or Ewing or KG - but he isn't. Cam and Mikal have both improved their ballhandling and dribble drive games, Payne spoke about how he needed to get craftier finishing his layups because teams figured out his lefty scoop last season. I think those are the things Monty and Jones are taking into account. If DA seemingly isn't putting the work in to improve his skills ahead of his big contract, what happens when he gets the money?
And I'm not trashing DA either, just pointing out what I'm seeing. I have no problem with him as he is because he's been good enough as a defender and rebounder. But good enough shouldn't get you a max deal.
Even if he should have been putting in more work, they don't have to leave that all up to him, if they really want him to take his game to another level offensively. I would like to see them create a specific offseason plan for his offensive development, perhaps spending a few weeks with Hakeem or somebody else who can work with him. He is very coachable and does what he is asked. Perhaps he just doesn't know what to work on during the offseason.
This is a terrible take. He's been with the team for over three years and is now making $10M, but it's someone else's fault he hasn't developed a very obvious deficit in his game?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:36 pm
by JeremyG
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:24 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:16 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 am
Speaking of "growth", can we honestly say DA's really made any noticeable improvements offensively? His defense has definitely gotten better since he's been in the league, but I also chalk some of that up to coaching. But where's the improved post game? Where's the dribble drive faceup game? He's basically the same player on offense we've always seen. I wouldn't even care if he shot those fadeaways or FT line jumpers if he were automatic like Duncan or Ewing or KG - but he isn't. Cam and Mikal have both improved their ballhandling and dribble drive games, Payne spoke about how he needed to get craftier finishing his layups because teams figured out his lefty scoop last season. I think those are the things Monty and Jones are taking into account. If DA seemingly isn't putting the work in to improve his skills ahead of his big contract, what happens when he gets the money?
And I'm not trashing DA either, just pointing out what I'm seeing. I have no problem with him as he is because he's been good enough as a defender and rebounder. But good enough shouldn't get you a max deal.
Even if he should have been putting in more work, they don't have to leave that all up to him, if they really want him to take his game to another level offensively. I would like to see them create a specific offseason plan for his offensive development, perhaps spending a few weeks with Hakeem or somebody else who can work with him. He is very coachable and does what he is asked. Perhaps he just doesn't know what to work on during the offseason.
This is a terrible take. He's been with the team for over three years and is now making $10M, but it's someone else's fault he hasn't developed a very obvious deficit in his game?
I never said it's someone else's fault. I said they don't
have to leave it up to him if they
want him to take it to another level offensively. The organization has never hinted that they would like to see him become a dominant force on offense or become a top scorer. So it's possible he's just staying within his role on the team, and working on whatever he feels like working on (three-point shooting seems to be one of those things).
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:31 pm
by ShelC
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:36 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:24 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:16 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 am
Speaking of "growth", can we honestly say DA's really made any noticeable improvements offensively? His defense has definitely gotten better since he's been in the league, but I also chalk some of that up to coaching. But where's the improved post game? Where's the dribble drive faceup game? He's basically the same player on offense we've always seen. I wouldn't even care if he shot those fadeaways or FT line jumpers if he were automatic like Duncan or Ewing or KG - but he isn't. Cam and Mikal have both improved their ballhandling and dribble drive games, Payne spoke about how he needed to get craftier finishing his layups because teams figured out his lefty scoop last season. I think those are the things Monty and Jones are taking into account. If DA seemingly isn't putting the work in to improve his skills ahead of his big contract, what happens when he gets the money?
And I'm not trashing DA either, just pointing out what I'm seeing. I have no problem with him as he is because he's been good enough as a defender and rebounder. But good enough shouldn't get you a max deal.
Even if he should have been putting in more work, they don't have to leave that all up to him, if they really want him to take his game to another level offensively. I would like to see them create a specific offseason plan for his offensive development, perhaps spending a few weeks with Hakeem or somebody else who can work with him. He is very coachable and does what he is asked. Perhaps he just doesn't know what to work on during the offseason.
This is a terrible take. He's been with the team for over three years and is now making $10M, but it's someone else's fault he hasn't developed a very obvious deficit in his game?
I never said it's someone else's fault. I said they don't
have to leave it up to him if they
want him to take it to another level offensively.
The organization has never hinted that they would like to see him become a dominant force on offense or become a top scorer. So it's possible he's just staying within his role on the team, and working on whatever he feels like working on (three-point shooting seems to be one of those things).
Maybe not giving him the max was their way of hinting at it? And teams do typically give players a list of things to work on in the offseason and can create a plan around that in their exit interviews after the season.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:38 pm
by Superbone
Coach definitely told Ayton to come into camp in shape. That's telling by itself.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:06 pm
by Indy
Superbone wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:38 pm
Coach definitely told Ayton to come into camp in shape. That's telling by itself.
And they said so publicly...
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:41 am
by Indy
Thoughts on Chris Paul's words? He said directly that Ayton knows exactly what he needs to do to get paid.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:57 am
by AmareIsGod
Just watched highlights of 2 allyoops from John Collins last night in Atlanta. Ayton could easily allyoop dunk like him but never does. He has the heart of a cat instead of the heart of a lion. You never really see him fired up or pissed off. Never aggressive in a positive way where he abuses the defender. Until he shows that kind of fire regularly, I'm done sticking up for the guy and advocating for him to get paid. He hasn't shown any sort of dominance or fire through 3 games after not getting what he "deserves".
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:42 pm
by Mori Chu
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:57 am
Just watched highlights of 2 allyoops from John Collins last night in Atlanta. Ayton could easily allyoop dunk like him but never does. He has the heart of a cat instead of the heart of a lion. You never really see him fired up or pissed off. Never aggressive in a positive way where he abuses the defender. Until he shows that kind of fire regularly, I'm done sticking up for the guy and advocating for him to get paid. He hasn't shown any sort of dominance or fire through 3 games after not getting what he "deserves".
Ayton seems like a "weed guy" to me. He probably smokes it a lot, and it makes him calm and mellow and a bit low-motor. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I just don't think he will ever be a fiery player like Collins. That just isn't how he is wired.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:14 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Being a "weed guy" sure hasn't hindered Kevin Durant's competitive spirit.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:18 pm
by AmareIsGod
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:14 pm
Being a "weed guy" sure hasn't hindered Kevin Durant's competitive spirit.
KD is probably more sativa and Ayton indica.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:20 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I think it's more like KD is a "hooper" as he puts it, and Ayton is a.. I'm not entirely sure what Ayton is, which is part of the issue.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:43 pm
by Indy
it has nothing to do with weed.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:52 pm
by pickle
Ayton doesn't play with massive fire, but he's also not a massive bum either. Ultimately all of our analyses will amount to nothing if he starts shooting better. Given his physical profile we would all love for him to be a force inside like Shaq, but if he is more finesse at heart, as long as he shoots well and learns to create offense with his back to the basket or becomes a credible 3 point threat, he will get what he deserves at the end of the season.
All this Sarver report talk, all around a negative influence on the team, but if somehow he is removed, it gives the Suns and Ayton a way to get back to the negotiation table. I'm going to stay optimistic about this situation.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am
by Nodack
The team seems pretty separate from Sarver to me. I don’t think he has any duties with the team other than paying them, showing up when he feels like and hanging out. I don’t think he practices with the team and certainly doesn’t play with the team or call plays. I don’t think they think about Sarver that much during a typical day except maybe Ayton right now.
Then again the media has started asking the Suns players pointed questions about Sarver. If your boss has been accused of something and the media wants your take on it, you really need to think about what you say or say nothing at all, unless it’s all totally true and you are willing to risk alienating yourself to right a wrong. James Jones stood by Sarver and said he saw none of what he is being accused of. Then again Sarver is his direct boss and he just put together a winning team that he doesn’t want to F up.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:45 pm
by Bucktastic365
I'VE GOT IT!!!!!!!!!
**I already know this won't happen, BUT IT SHOULD**
Since the starters offense is predicated on guard/ wing play with a primarily P/R offense, why can't we just switch McGee and Ayton out?
McGee would excell as a non-offensive weapon/lobber/garbage man with the starters, while Ayton could be the "Embiid-light" force for the bench.
Honestly, if you really think about it, it is the optimal usage of our personnel.
It won't happen, but I'd love to see what it would function like.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:27 pm
by Indy
This is shocking to me.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:47 pm
by Superbone
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:27 pm
This is shocking to me.
MAX him!
Quit looking at all the details. He was picked NUMBER ONE! He thinks he should get the max, therefore he deserves it. How dare we make him wait and don't insta-max him.