Suns Trade Dudley; Acquire Richaun Holmes

[JCSunsfan]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

[Cap]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

No room? We get 15 roster spots, plus two two-ways.

Remember when the limit used to be 12? Wasn’t that, like, yesterday?

[Split T]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

No room? We get 15 roster spots, plus two two-ways.

Remember when the limit used to be 12? Wasn’t that, like, yesterday?

Well we have all 15 spots taken... Who's spot would you give him?

[carey]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that shit up.

[specialsauce]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

He is just absolutely awful at defense. He is way too slow to cover any pick and rolls. And he provides zero shot blocking ability. He’s a good third center, but $5 million for that is ridiculous IMO.

[Cap]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

No room? We get 15 roster spots, plus two two-ways.

Remember when the limit used to be 12? Wasn’t that, like, yesterday?

Well we have all 15 spots taken... Who's spot would you give him?

I wasn’t making a serious argument. Just pointing out that there are more roster spots than there used to be, and I’m a grumpy old man who doesn’t like change.

[Split T]

Haha, fair. I think it simply came down to money. Williams is fine to be a third string center, but we were paying him to be a rotation big. He'd still be here if he was on a minimum deal.

[Indy]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

No room? We get 15 roster spots, plus two two-ways.

Remember when the limit used to be 12? Wasn’t that, like, yesterday?

Well we have all 15 spots taken... Who's spot would you give him?

I wasn’t making a serious argument. Just pointing out that there are more roster spots than there used to be, and I’m a grumpy old man who doesn’t like change.

Hasn't 15 been the number for a long time, it just used to be you had to have 3 on the IL for some made up reason?

[JCSunsfan]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

[Indy]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

Even if he is wise, 3-4 million isn't going to set him up for the next 60-70 years. But it is a good head start.

[JCSunsfan]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

Even if he is wise, 3-4 million isn't going to set him up for the next 60-70 years. But it is a good head start.

He made $6 million last year. The rest of his life should be quite easy if he is wise. If he wants to retire now, well, he would need to be REALLY wise.

Let's see. If he bought a $4 million annuity with that salary, got 5% annual return, he could withdraw $17,500 per month for the next 60 years. To me, that is set for life, but maybe others need more.

[Cap]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

No room? We get 15 roster spots, plus two two-ways.

Remember when the limit used to be 12? Wasn’t that, like, yesterday?

Well we have all 15 spots taken... Who's spot would you give him?

I wasn’t making a serious argument. Just pointing out that there are more roster spots than there used to be, and I’m a grumpy old man who doesn’t like change.

Hasn't 15 been the number for a long time, it just used to be you had to have 3 on the IL for some made up reason?

Back in the good old days, we grumbled about bogus “tendinitis” and “back spasm” injuries being used to shelve non-contributors and open up roster spots. We reminisced about the good old(er) days when the injured list was actually used for injuries.

The league, instead of futilely trying to turn back the tide, simply dropped the pretense and changed the injured list to the inactive list. And increased the active roster to 13. And added two-ways.

Remember when you had to fake an injury to get a 20-second timeout? That was fun.

[Superbone]

No room for sentimental roster spots. He’s a third string center honestly, and 5 million for that is way too much. And before anyone replies with “I’d rather have him than Tyson,” if that’s your argument, you’ve let the Suns brainwash you. Tyson shouldn’t be taking up a roster spot either.

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

Even if he is wise, 3-4 million isn't going to set him up for the next 60-70 years. But it is a good head start.

It would for me.

[Indy]

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

Even if he is wise, 3-4 million isn't going to set him up for the next 60-70 years. But it is a good head start.

He made $6 million last year. The rest of his life should be quite easy if he is wise. If he wants to retire now, well, he would need to be REALLY wise.

Let's see. If he bought a $4 million annuity with that salary, got 5% annual return, he could withdraw $17,500 per month for the next 60 years. To me, that is set for life, but maybe others need more.

His total pay for all 3 years was 7 million. He probably cleared about half of that after taxes and agent fees, etc. And even with that annuity, he would be taxed on that too. I know that 17k/month seems like a lot now, but I doubt it will in 20-30 years, much less 60. How much money did people think they needed to retire in 1958? I think 10k/month sounded like a literal gold mine, but today, not so much.

[Indy]

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

Even if he is wise, 3-4 million isn't going to set him up for the next 60-70 years. But it is a good head start.

He made $6 million last year. The rest of his life should be quite easy if he is wise. If he wants to retire now, well, he would need to be REALLY wise.

Let's see. If he bought a $4 million annuity with that salary, got 5% annual return, he could withdraw $17,500 per month for the next 60 years. To me, that is set for life, but maybe others need more.

His total pay for all 3 years was 7 million. He probably cleared about half of that after taxes and agent fees, etc. And even with that annuity, he would be taxed on that too. I know that 17k/month seems like a lot now, but I doubt it will in 20-30 years, much less 60. How much money did people think they needed to retire in 1958? I think 10k/month sounded like a literal gold mine, but today, not so much.

By they way, this is probably me being crazy, and I realize and admit it. I just moved some things around in my retirement portfolio and adjusted my number, so I am probably overly sensitive.

[Indy]

We gave him $5 million last year, and courtside seats to every game. Plus he got per diem. Pretty nice gig for being a super fan.

Why are we pretending like Williams can't play? He was a double-double machine 2 years ago when he got ANY kind of meaningful minutes. Look that s*** up.

So, how many double doubles did he get last year? Yes, he can play when he is healthy, but he was not. He got paid for doing nothing last year. The Suns signed him to a multi-year deal and paid him. He is a very fortunate young man. He is set for life if he is wise with his money.

Even if he is wise, 3-4 million isn't going to set him up for the next 60-70 years. But it is a good head start.

It would for me.

You think you would be set for the next 60 years? A single crazy medical issue could cost a million of that in no time. and a million today will probably be peanuts in 2050. Remember the running joke in Austin Powers about a million dollars in the 60s versus the 90s.

[Indy]

No room? We get 15 roster spots, plus two two-ways.

Remember when the limit used to be 12? Wasn’t that, like, yesterday?

Well we have all 15 spots taken... Who's spot would you give him?

I wasn’t making a serious argument. Just pointing out that there are more roster spots than there used to be, and I’m a grumpy old man who doesn’t like change.

Hasn't 15 been the number for a long time, it just used to be you had to have 3 on the IL for some made up reason?

Back in the good old days, we grumbled about bogus “tendinitis” and “back spasm” injuries being used to shelve non-contributors and open up roster spots. We reminisced about the good old(er) days when the injured list was actually used for injuries.

The league, instead of futilely trying to turn back the tide, simply dropped the pretense and changed the injured list to the inactive list. And increased the active roster to 13. And added two-ways.

Remember when you had to fake an injury to get a 20-second timeout? That was fun.

[Nodack]

Dudley gets a lot of crap for being out of shape and un-athletic but, he was the smartest guy on the floor most of the time and made things happen on the floor when things weren’t happening before he took the floor in a lot of games last year. I’m not complaining about the move. Just wanted to give Dudley his due.

I liked Williams a lot. He did miss all of last year and probably owes us for it but, I watched the year before and he made things happen on the floor when things weren’t happening as well. Being a Phoenix guy with his mother being Phoenix Chief of Police was kind of cool too from a local standpoint. The don’t care what anybody says. The dude was always a + for the team when he came in. Hope he lands someplace.

[INFORMER]

You shouldn't have to waste a second round pick to keep a couple of guys on minimal contracts.

In a perfect world, I agree with you that the best thing to do is to go back in time and not sign Dudley to that contract so that we don't need to spend a 2nd-rounder to evict him. But if you look at it from where we were right before the Dudley trade, we have this player making $10m/yr who isn't contributing, and we want to open the roster spot for a youngling. Isn't it a good trade to give up one second-round pick to free that salary, roster spot, and playing time for the young guys?

I wasn't even hinting at lamenting the Dudley signing.

Bottomline, a roster spot didn't have to be created to keep Reed, the Suns didn't have to trade a player who wasn't playing in order to free playing time, and the trade created $2 mil in cap space, which hardly was a necessity.

[Split T]

You shouldn't have to waste a second round pick to keep a couple of guys on minimal contracts.

In a perfect world, I agree with you that the best thing to do is to go back in time and not sign Dudley to that contract so that we don't need to spend a 2nd-rounder to evict him. But if you look at it from where we were right before the Dudley trade, we have this player making $10m/yr who isn't contributing, and we want to open the roster spot for a youngling. Isn't it a good trade to give up one second-round pick to free that salary, roster spot, and playing time for the young guys?

I wasn't even hinting at lamenting the Dudley signing.

Bottomline, a roster spot didn't have to be created to keep Reed, the Suns didn't have to trade a player who wasn't playing in order to free playing time, and the trade created $2 mil in cap space, which hardly was a necessity.

All true, I guess the question is, do you want the 2nd rounder or Richaun Holmes?