2019 NBA Draft Lottery

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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:33 pm
And 35th best? I will admit that I don't watch every game around the league, but if there are 35 better PGs out there, I am not seeing them. Although I will admit that I am not thinking about guys we have no chance (or shouldn't want) to get.
Here are the PGs I think are better (next season), Salary not being a consideration.

Lonzo Ball
Patrick Beverly
Eric Bledsoe
Malcolm Brogdon
Mike Conley
Steph Curry
Spencer Dinwiddie
Goran Dragic
De'Aaron Fox
SGA (I think he will be by next season)
Jrue Holiday
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Jamal Murray
Chris Paul
D'Angelo Russell
Ben Simmons
Kemba Walker
Russell Westbrook
Trae Young
(Ja Morant)

Here are the ones who are in the same tier:
Patrick Beverly
Reggie Jackson
Elfrid Payton
Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
Terry Rozier
Ricky Rubio
Dennis Schroeder
Marcus Smart
Dennis Smith Jr.
Jeff Teague
Fred VanVleet

Here are the ones who may be better by next season:
Jalen Brunson
Kris Dunn
Dejounte Murray
Collin Sexton
Derrick White
Delon Wright
Monte Morris

So 21 definitely better. 12 in his tier. 7 who could leapfrog him next season.

I don't think it's a stretch to say he's the 27th-35th best PG in the league next season.

Again. He's solid. But it's a very deep position.

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Split T
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Split T »

I see 18...I’m not gonna say Ja is better and Ball/Beverley are not better. So he’s around 20. Problem is, no one bette rthan him is available except Conley(old and expensive), Dragic(old and expensive) and then free agents we don’t have enough money for (kemba, Kyrie, Brogdon, Russell)

Collison is a FA, fits our budget, and is a perfectly competent pg who shoots over 40% from 3.

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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.
I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.
Do you really think Memphis is going to trade him?
For the right offer, sure. They're about to draft a good PG and traded for a pretty good one at the deadline last year as well.
I guess if they had a new ownership group and really wanted to distance themselves from their past, but he is the team. He is a lifer, their best player, and has been nothing but a professional there. If they traded him, their longest tenured player will be Chandler Parsons and everyone there hates him (well, just what they get out of him based on what they wanted/paid for). Seems like it would be really bad PR, unless he comes out and says he wants to go. Just my 2 cents.

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carey
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2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by carey »

Shabazz wrote: I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.
Collision is steady not spectacular. Yes, he's 31 and didn't post the ridiculous shooting numbers from last year again this year but he was still 46/40/83 and averaged a career high in assists. Look what a steady influence DJ Augistin became for Orlando. I really believe that he'd be the kind of leader we need for now. We were .500 when Bumpy was healthy. Even if he sticks around adding another guy that has a 3.75:1 a:to is only going to make us better. Look, I wish a guy like Kyrie could come be our savior. I just don't see it and we lack leverage to go after a guy like Conley without giving up the farm. It'd be easier to sign Collision then do a sign and trade for Mirotic or Tobias Harris or someone like that. Conversely if you hate the Collison idea you can try and get Memphis to bite by giving them #6, TyJo and Warren/Jackson. They aren't taking that MIL pick only. Then you can sign a guy like JaMychal Green or Thad Young.

We really should temper expectations for the off-season and hope for smart signings instead of wild panic type moves.
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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:56 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:33 pm
And 35th best? I will admit that I don't watch every game around the league, but if there are 35 better PGs out there, I am not seeing them. Although I will admit that I am not thinking about guys we have no chance (or shouldn't want) to get.
Here are the PGs I think are better (next season), Salary not being a consideration.
...
So 21 definitely better. 12 in his tier. 7 who could leapfrog him next season.

I don't think it's a stretch to say he's the 27th-35th best PG in the league next season.

Again. He's solid. But it's a very deep position.
I mostly agree with your list of how they played this last season.

But I think we need a + defender (or at least has a significantly better O rating than D rating) that can hit 3s really well if they are playing in the backcourt with Booker. And need to be had while still allowing us to acquire/pay for a top 25 PF. I don't think there are a lot of those guys out there.

--This could all be me looking through the lens of our incredibly incompetent lost decade and trying to be realistic about what will happen instead of thinking what could be--

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JeremyG
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by JeremyG »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:56 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:33 pm
And 35th best? I will admit that I don't watch every game around the league, but if there are 35 better PGs out there, I am not seeing them. Although I will admit that I am not thinking about guys we have no chance (or shouldn't want) to get.
Here are the PGs I think are better (next season), Salary not being a consideration.

Lonzo Ball
Patrick Beverly
Eric Bledsoe
Malcolm Brogdon
Mike Conley
Steph Curry
Spencer Dinwiddie
Goran Dragic
De'Aaron Fox
SGA (I think he will be by next season)
Jrue Holiday
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Jamal Murray
Chris Paul
D'Angelo Russell
Ben Simmons
Kemba Walker
Russell Westbrook
Trae Young
(Ja Morant)

Here are the ones who are in the same tier:
Patrick Beverly
Reggie Jackson
Elfrid Payton
Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
Terry Rozier
Ricky Rubio
Dennis Schroeder
Marcus Smart
Dennis Smith Jr.
Jeff Teague
Fred VanVleet

Here are the ones who may be better by next season:
Jalen Brunson
Kris Dunn
Dejounte Murray
Collin Sexton
Derrick White
Delon Wright
Monte Morris

So 21 definitely better. 12 in his tier. 7 who could leapfrog him next season.

I don't think it's a stretch to say he's the 27th-35th best PG in the league next season.

Again. He's solid. But it's a very deep position.
I would definitely take Rondo, Rose, or Rubio over Collison.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Rondo is an asshole who immediately checks out if his team can't contend. No thanks.

Rose is a younger Jamal Crawford but he's not nearly the teammate as Crawford.

I've cooled a lot on Rubio. Maybe he has a late career resurgence, but I don't know. He's played a lot of games if we go back to his professional days in Spain. Rumors are also pointing to him angling for a deal with the Celtics.
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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

carey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:36 pm
Shabazz wrote: I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.
Collision is steady not spectacular. Yes, he's 31 and didn't post the ridiculous shooting numbers from last year again this year but he was still 46/40/83 and averaged a career high in assists. Look what a steady influence DJ Augistin became for Orlando. I really believe that he'd be the kind of leader we need for now. We were .500 when Bumpy was healthy. Even if he sticks around adding another guy that has a 3.75:1 a:to is only going to make us better. Look, I wish a guy like Kyrie could come be our savior. I just don't see it and we lack leverage to go after a guy like Conley without giving up the farm. It'd be easier to sign Collision then do a sign and trade for Mirotic or Tobias Harris or someone like that. Conversely if you hate the Collison idea you can try and get Memphis to bite by giving them #6, TyJo and Warren/Jackson. They aren't taking that MIL pick only. Then you can sign a guy like JaMychal Green or Thad Young.

We really should temper expectations for the off-season and hope for smart signings instead of wild panic type moves.
You're right. He's fine. We just need a lot more than fine.

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carey
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by carey »

Shabazz wrote:
You're right. He's fine. We just need a lot more than fine.
We totally do.
We just don't have the space or the assets because we've missed on several high lottery picks. What can you do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Og Snus!

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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

carey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 pm
Shabazz wrote:
You're right. He's fine. We just need a lot more than fine.
We totally do.
We just don't have the space or the assets because we've missed on several high lottery picks. What can you do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've made my suggestions.

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Split T
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Split T »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:27 pm
carey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 pm
Shabazz wrote:
You're right. He's fine. We just need a lot more than fine.
We totally do.
We just don't have the space or the assets because we've missed on several high lottery picks. What can you do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've made my suggestions.
Do you have any besides Conley? What would you do if Memphis isn’t trading Conley?

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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:27 pm
I see 18...I’m not gonna say Ja is better and Ball/Beverley are not better. So he’s around 20. Problem is, no one bette rthan him is available except Conley(old and expensive), Dragic(old and expensive) and then free agents we don’t have enough money for (kemba, Kyrie, Brogdon, Russell)

Collison is a FA, fits our budget, and is a perfectly competent pg who shoots over 40% from 3.
Just FYI - Collison is older than Conley.

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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:28 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:27 pm
carey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 pm
Shabazz wrote:
You're right. He's fine. We just need a lot more than fine.
We totally do.
We just don't have the space or the assets because we've missed on several high lottery picks. What can you do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've made my suggestions.
Do you have any besides Conley? What would you do if Memphis isn’t trading Conley?
Either make a move for Lonzo or extend an offer sheet to Brogdon.

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Split T
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Split T »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:32 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:27 pm
I see 18...I’m not gonna say Ja is better and Ball/Beverley are not better. So he’s around 20. Problem is, no one bette rthan him is available except Conley(old and expensive), Dragic(old and expensive) and then free agents we don’t have enough money for (kemba, Kyrie, Brogdon, Russell)

Collison is a FA, fits our budget, and is a perfectly competent pg who shoots over 40% from 3.
Just FYI - Collison is older than Conley.
I just see Collison as a stop gap like Conley. Conley is better, I’d gladly take him, but not for #6. #6 needs to help us add a core piece...whether that’s through the draft or via trade.

So I prefer Conley to Collison, but I prefer Collison and Garland to Conley.

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Split T
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Split T »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:35 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:28 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:27 pm
carey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 pm
Shabazz wrote:
You're right. He's fine. We just need a lot more than fine.
We totally do.
We just don't have the space or the assets because we've missed on several high lottery picks. What can you do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've made my suggestions.
Do you have any besides Conley? What would you do if Memphis isn’t trading Conley?
Either make a move for Lonzo or extend an offer sheet to Brogdon.
Brogdon would be my dream scenario. I’m not a big ball fan, but I wouldn’t mind taking a shot on him if it doesn’t cost a ton.

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carey
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by carey »

Split T wrote:
Brogdon would be my dream scenario. I’m not a big ball fan, but I wouldn’t mind taking a shot on him if it doesn’t cost a ton.
I'm not ok sending 6 for Ball. I wonder if we throw dumb money at Brogdon if they'd take their pick back plus one of TJ/JJ for the right not to pay him.
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carey
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

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carey wrote: I'm not ok sending 6 for Ball. I wonder if we throw dumb money at Brogdon if they'd take their pick back plus one of TJ/JJ for the right not to pay him.
Like... I'd rather pay Brogdon $20M/yr and roll out Brogdon-Booker-Oubre-?-Ayton than pay Conley $33M and not have the 6. Then you could take Cam or Clarke or even Culver.
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Split T
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Split T »

carey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:20 pm
carey wrote: I'm not ok sending 6 for Ball. I wonder if we throw dumb money at Brogdon if they'd take their pick back plus one of TJ/JJ for the right not to pay him.
Like... I'd rather pay Brogdon $20M/yr and roll out Brogdon-Booker-Oubre-?-Ayton than pay Conley $33M and not have the 6. Then you could take Cam or Clarke or even Culver.
I’d do that for sure..don’t know if Milwaukee would

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JeremyG
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by JeremyG »

I would trade #6 for Lonzo Ball in an instant. I doubt LA would do that though unless they’re picking Garland at #4.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Split T
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Split T »

JeremyG wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:48 pm
I would trade #6 for Lonzo Ball in an instant. I doubt LA would do that though unless they’re picking Garland at #4.
They do it if NO prefers #6 to Lonzo in an AD trade...I’d rather keep #6

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