Whom to pick at 6

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.

Assuming we keep the pick, who do you want at 6?

Jarrett Culver
9
24%
Darius Garland
6
16%
Deandre Hunter
1
3%
Coby White
2
5%
Cam Reddish
1
3%
Brandon Clarke
8
22%
Nassir Little
0
No votes
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
0
No votes
PJ Washington
0
No votes
Goga Bitadze
1
3%
The Suns are idiots if they keep this pick
9
24%
 
Total votes: 37

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ShelC
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by ShelC »

Let's just trade for Dame Lillard and call it a day. Sound good?

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wpmiller42
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by wpmiller42 »

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:11 pm
My preference for right now is to move #6 to Atlanta for #10/#17.
This would be great, since I think there's a good chance Clarke will still be there at #10. I'd consider it a pretty successful offseason if we were to somehow end up drafting Clarke and trading for Dinwiddie.

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O_Gardino
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by O_Gardino »

I haven't scouted folks in the 17 range at all. For those fans of NAW, how would you compare him to White?
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Split T
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Split T »

I’d take NAW over White..I haven’t spent a ton of timing looking at white though. NAW is bigger and better defensively. White looks to have more off the dribble game. He’s quicker and can create his own shot easier.

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Split T
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Split T »

Someone voted for White in this thread...so at least one person should have a lot of good things to say. Turning into Jamal Murray seems like his ceiling. If he hits that I won’t complain, but Murray was a better shooter at this stage.

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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Superbone »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:59 am
It's telling about this draft that we've had multiple people asking what makes White a good prospect and not even one positive answer. Yet he will go in the top 10.

I see white a a scoring combo guard who can create his own shot and make decent passes. He's a good shooter. His ceiling in the nba depends on how well he can get his shot off. If he can add the strength and coordination to get himself open, he can become a good player.
We already have a great version of that player you just described. I guess White could back him up.
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Superbone »

ShelC wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:28 am
Let's just trade for Dame Lillard and call it a day. Sound good?
Yep, sounds good, RealGM.
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ShelC
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by ShelC »

NAW is more of a shooting guard, less of a ballhandler. Coby White is more of combo guard, ballhandler and scorer. Kind of reminds me of Jamal Crawford a bit. Maybe that's why they want to bring him and keep JCraw around to mentor?

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Mori Chu
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Mori Chu »

wpmiller42 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:12 am
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:11 pm
My preference for right now is to move #6 to Atlanta for #10/#17.
This would be great, since I think there's a good chance Clarke will still be there at #10. I'd consider it a pretty successful offseason if we were to somehow end up drafting Clarke and trading for Dinwiddie.
That's my dream offseason. Would be over the moon if we got Clarke and Dinwiddie.

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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Indy »

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:32 pm
wpmiller42 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:12 am
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:11 pm
My preference for right now is to move #6 to Atlanta for #10/#17.
This would be great, since I think there's a good chance Clarke will still be there at #10. I'd consider it a pretty successful offseason if we were to somehow end up drafting Clarke and trading for Dinwiddie.
That's my dream offseason. Would be over the moon if we got Clarke and Dinwiddie.
Me too but I don't see how we could get Dinwiddie without giving up #6 or Bridges.

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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by carey »

I should probably weigh in since I may be the only Coby White supporter on the board. I believe that I've talked about him before and this will be my 3rd time because Tapatalk just ate a very long post about it that I couldn't recover. I don't really feel like doing the entire thing over again so I will just touch on the salient points. (Well, I wound up writing the entire thing over again anyway.)

To start I'd like to talk about Coby's greatest asset and that's his ability to push the pace. He is not a half court set it up and grind out a possession kind of guard. Although he did finish in the 81st percentile for points plus assists per possession against a set defense, he is built to run. He uses a quick first step to get past guys and immediately push the ball into transition whether that's off turnovers or in-bounding the ball - something we all know Nash turned into a necessity if you want to have a running team. All running teams do it these days, from Golden State and Portland to even Toronto (look at the frenetic pace of game 3 where they wore the Warriors out pushing it down their throat in the first half.)

Coby's second best attribute is his catch and shoot ability. His numbers are frankly quite impressive. He finished in the 92nd percentile on catch & shoot opportunities. That is very good for a guy that is also in charge of running an offense. You have to be great at moving off the ball and navigating screens to hit those numbers against ACC competition. This is a skill all the great shooters in the league have and it's something I think will translate to the NBA. His true shooting percentage is 55.5 and lines up with guys like CJ McCollum, DAR, and Sexton. His FT% is better than Murray coming out as well as the 3 I listed except for CJ who beat him by 1 percentage point. However, NONE of those guys ran a team that pushed the ball like North Carolina did last season. They were rated the 6th fastest team in all of college basketball. McCollum lead a top 60-paced team but it was in the Patriot league. The rest didn't even qualify for the top 100. One of his biggest flaws people point to is his poor assist to turnover ratio. I think this was due in large part to constantly pushing the pace and not knowing when to go from 100-mph straight downhill to zero. This will come with time.

Another part of the game he struggled with was pull-up/off the dribble shooting. He only finished in the 27th percentile which in all fairness is not very good (awful, really.) He does possess a strong step-back that reminds you a bit of Harden's. With his quick first step and the ability to employ a step-back you have to think that this will improve greatly over time. I've not yet mentioned that he's 6' 5" (in shoes.) If you think point-Book is something here to stay (and I believe we will at the very least get a modified version of that his year) then a guy that can navigate screens like Coby and shoot over the top of smaller guards makes a lot of sense to me. Defensively he should be able to defend opposing PGs and compete. Unfortunately, like Clarke he measured poorly in wingspan at 6'5" exactly.

Are there better prospects in the draft? Sure. Do I know who they are outside of Zion and Ja? Not really. If I wrote about Culver he'd have his own paragraph of things he's not so good at. Same for Garland though it's even more difficult because there's just not enough tape on him because of his 5-game sample size. I'm not bashing anyone for loving a specific prospect over any others. I did get frustrated with the amount of Clarke talk. I think they are still debating him over at RealGM so that's been going on for four weeks straight. There's a ton of scenarios I can get behind. Taking Coby White at #6 is just one of them. I'm definitely down for trading the pick for a young player. I'd probably find a way to like the selection of Culver or even Cam. I'd be ok with trading down and getting a taller shooter like Cam Johnson and someone else like Kabengele or Sekou. I have no idea what we're doing. I agree with others that working out Culver and Clarke more than once makes Gambo's assertion that we're locked in on White kind of strange. Anyway, I hope this helps those out there that are trying to familiarize themselves with White.

Here's a couple of his step-back:




This video is decent at covering his strengths and weaknesses if you want to watch instead of read:
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by O_Gardino »

Thanks, Carey. That's good analysis.
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Split T
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by Split T »

Good stuff Carey! If we do draft him, I hope you’re right about him. I would prefer we trade down if we’re drafting him...though Chicago might like him at 7, so 6 might be where we have to take him.

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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by carey »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:02 pm
Good stuff Carey! If we do draft him, I hope you’re right about him. I would prefer we trade down if we’re drafting him...though Chicago might like him at 7, so 6 might be where we have to take him.
I hope anyone we draft is great. Even if it's Brandon Clarke.
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by In2ition »

I'm coming around on Coby. I did see him grow quite a bit over the year, and he was a good player for UNC.

Honestly, I don't know how this is going to go. My thought was that there were plenty of available FA starters out there at PG, and the draft next year has an abundance of good to great PGs available. I thought you would go with the PF choice that fits well with Ayton and the other guys, in Clarke. Maybe they still do something where they get him too, but idk.

It feels like they will use their resources and cap space on a FA PF now or make a trade for one, like Griffin or Love. I'll be curious where they end up going and what plan they have in place. It should be relatively easy enough to fill the holes on this team and balance the roster out a bit, or at least create a roster that makes sense and can start trying to win. I can't say that I'm overly upset about it, because I've realized that I don't have single bit of control on what happens and can only comment on whether or not I think it's a good idea or not going forward.
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by INFORMER »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:35 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:02 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:07 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:26 pm
Isaiah Thomas.
It's a great idea if you're interested in destroying Ayton's development.
AmareIsGod wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:36 am
Isaiah Thomas? Yuck, Informer. Is that really you? Was your account hacked?
:lol:

I'm honestly fine with taking a flyer on him. I didn't have a problem with him while he was here and he was tremendous in Boston. He probably will never reach that level again, but I still think he could be an effective player.
I remember watching it play out and then verifying it with the data afterwards - he ran a significant amount of pick-and-roll with Len and almost never passed him the ball. It was an alarmingly low rate. He both couldn't and wouldn't pass over or around the defender to Len. It was infuriating. It was like every pick was about getting IT the best shot instead of the team.

That's an OK philosophy when you're running P-n-R with Aaron Baynes. I don't want it for Ayton.
Fair enough. Although are we really looking to use Ayton in the pick and roll primarily? I would think Ayton's future is in the high and low posts.
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INFORMER
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by INFORMER »

carey wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:45 pm
To start I'd like to talk about Coby's greatest asset and that's his ability to push the pace. He is not a half court set it up and grind out a possession kind of guard. Although he did finish in the 81st percentile for points plus assists per possession against a set defense, he is built to run. He uses a quick first step to get past guys and immediately push the ball into transition whether that's off turnovers or in-bounding the ball - something we all know Nash turned into a necessity if you want to have a running team. All running teams do it these days, from Golden State and Portland to even Toronto (look at the frenetic pace of game 3 where they wore the Warriors out pushing it down their throat in the first half.)

Coby's second best attribute is his catch and shoot ability. His numbers are frankly quite impressive. He finished in the 92nd percentile on catch & shoot opportunities. That is very good for a guy that is also in charge of running an offense. You have to be great at moving off the ball and navigating screens to hit those numbers against ACC competition. This is a skill all the great shooters in the league have and it's something I think will translate to the NBA. His true shooting percentage is 55.5 and lines up with guys like CJ McCollum, DAR, and Sexton. His FT% is better than Murray coming out as well as the 3 I listed except for CJ who beat him by 1 percentage point. However, NONE of those guys ran a team that pushed the ball like North Carolina did last season. They were rated the 6th fastest team in all of college basketball. McCollum lead a top 60-paced team but it was in the Patriot league. The rest didn't even qualify for the top 100. One of his biggest flaws people point to is his poor assist to turnover ratio. I think this was due in large part to constantly pushing the pace and not knowing when to go from 100-mph straight downhill to zero. This will come with time.

Another part of the game he struggled with was pull-up/off the dribble shooting. He only finished in the 27th percentile which in all fairness is not very good (awful, really.) He does possess a strong step-back that reminds you a bit of Harden's. With his quick first step and the ability to employ a step-back you have to think that this will improve greatly over time. I've not yet mentioned that he's 6' 5" (in shoes.) If you think point-Book is something here to stay (and I believe we will at the very least get a modified version of that his year) then a guy that can navigate screens like Coby and shoot over the top of smaller guards makes a lot of sense to me. Defensively he should be able to defend opposing PGs and compete. Unfortunately, like Clarke he measured poorly in wingspan at 6'5" exactly.
Awesome job, carey. Thanks for taking the time to put together such a comprehensive breakdown.
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Who to pick at 6

Post by carey »

INFORMER wrote: Awesome job, carey. Thanks for taking the time to put together such a comprehensive breakdown.
My pleasure. I really feel like we could write something similar for all the guys in that 4-10 range. I'd be lying if I said I knew who for sure would pan out.

If we go all the way back to the 2011 draft we can see how bad I was.
2011 - Wanted Kawhi and got Keef.
2012 - Wanted Lamb but he was taken right before us. We got Marshall.
2013 - Wanted McLemore and we got Len. Both are not great. I did call McCollum the best off the dribble shooter in the draft on .net at the time. I was worried about his athleticism tho.
2014 - Wanted Lavine. He went right before us. I am satisfied with Warren.
2015 - Wanted and got Booker.
2016 - Wanted Bender and got... Bender. Sorry. We also got a bonus Chriss. Sorry again.
2017 - Wanted Fox (ask TOO!) and got Josh who I hated.
2018 - Was kind of split between Ayton and Luka. Was leaning Ayton. May have been wrong.

Quite the spotty record but I've hit on some picks in the late first and 2nd round like Bogdan and Okobo. Also missed on some like Ulis. I guess my point is that even with all the information at our finger tips we still are as hit and miss as everyone else.
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by In2ition »

This is a long read, but it's good. https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/u ... on-clarke/
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Re: Who to pick at 6

Post by carey »

In2ition wrote:This is a long read, but it's good. https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/u ... on-clarke/
I'll probably read it because what else will I do but I am beyond critical mass for Clarke discussion.
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