Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
Danimal
Posts: 1748
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:04 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Danimal »

Our last wins have been super super ugly. But I’ll take any win we can get. Would really like to see Diallo get more minutes, especially more minutes with Rubio feeding him. Our offense has had some massive rough patches in games lately. We really miss a presence inside. Diallo can at least finish inside.

I feel like cam Johnson is going to have a break out game some time soon where he gets over 5 3’s. Nice to see bridges rounding into form

Our defense blows but luckily so did theirs except for holiday being allowed to drape himself over his opponent.

User avatar
jonh
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:34 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by jonh »

Really was disappointing to have Rubio get injured when he did (a stretch with a ton of winnable games in a short period of time)--I think he really has become the MVP of this team--it goes where he goes.

In the next few days, we are going to start getting more and more hype articles about Aytons return. He better come ready to shut up and play hard. He has lost whatever goodwill he had with the fanbase when he was drafted.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 8553
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Cap »

O_Gardino wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:52 am
- I thought folks were crazy when they said Kaminsky would be our 6th man after the preseason. I eat my words. Your boy Franky K is 4th on the team in minutes played, FGA, and FG, 3rd in FTA, assist (oubre is #8), blocks, and rebounds (saric is #1). Through 1/4 of the season, he is one of our most productive players. You called it.
Depends what you mean by productive. He is 10th on the team in PER, 11th is WS/48, and 11th in BPM.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                         
Rk                   Age  G  MP   PER  TS%  3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS DWS  WS   WS/48  OBPM DBPM   BPM VORP
1        Aron Baynes  33 13 312  22.1 .677  .452 .270  6.6 20.2 13.2 19.5  0.6  2.6  9.0  21.1  1.2 0.2 1.4    .215   5.5 -0.1   5.5  0.6
2      Cheick Diallo  23 15 155  25.2 .832  .020 .347  7.6 24.4 15.7  8.6  0.6  2.3 11.0  17.4  0.7 0.1 0.8    .255   3.2 -0.6   2.6  0.2
3       Devin Booker  23 21 748  19.6 .634  .326 .307  1.7 10.6  6.0 29.2  0.8  0.8 17.2  28.4  1.6 0.3 2.0    .126   3.5 -2.2   1.3  0.6
4        Ricky Rubio  29 16 500  16.6 .499  .324 .296  2.4 14.9  8.4 39.1  2.3  0.4 12.5  19.6  0.9 0.4 1.3    .128   1.1 -0.2   0.9  0.4
5      Mikal Bridges  23 21 433  13.0 .572  .327 .327  4.2 14.5  9.2  6.7  3.0  1.2 10.0  13.7  0.4 0.5 0.9    .105  -0.8  1.4   0.7  0.3
6          Dario ari  25 21 584  12.9 .541  .497 .187  6.8 21.4 13.9  9.8  1.5  1.5 12.2  17.3  0.4 0.6 1.0    .083  -0.4  0.6   0.2  0.3
7    Cameron Johnson  23 19 373  14.1 .605  .659 .123  4.9 11.7  8.2  5.8  1.4  1.4  8.2  18.0  0.5 0.2 0.8    .102   1.7 -1.6   0.1  0.2
8        Kelly Oubre  24 21 666  15.9 .553  .336 .343  5.0 16.7 10.7  7.7  2.2  2.0  9.2  22.8  0.7 0.7 1.4    .098  -0.3  0.1  -0.2  0.3
9          Ty Jerome  22  3  40  14.3 .396  .231 .154  0.0 17.2  8.3 39.9  8.2  0.0 26.5  20.0 -0.1 0.1 0.0    .034  -4.4  4.1  -0.3  0.0
10      Jevon Carter  24 15 224   9.9 .546  .618 .073  1.4 12.3  6.7 16.6  2.7  2.0 20.9  13.6  0.0 0.2 0.2    .052  -1.8  1.1  -0.7  0.1
11    Frank Kaminsky  26 21 508  13.4 .536  .414 .360  4.7 20.3 12.2 12.8  0.7  1.6 10.0  20.0  0.4 0.4 0.8    .077  -0.8 -0.6  -1.4  0.1
12        Elie Okobo  22 15 150  16.5 .522  .481 .365  1.4  9.9  5.5 35.6  1.3  0.0  6.2  18.2  0.4 0.1 0.4    .143   1.5 -3.7  -2.2  0.0
13     Deandre Ayton  21  1  33  26.4 .643  .000 .000  9.8 27.8 18.5  0.0  1.4 10.8  0.0  18.0  0.1 0.1 0.1    .216  -2.7  0.1  -2.7  0.0
14     Tyler Johnson  27 18 360   9.0 .514  .491 .218  1.5  9.5  5.4 15.6  0.8  1.5 13.6  16.4  0.0 0.2 0.2    .027  -2.1 -1.4  -3.5 -0.1
15      Jared Harper  22  1   2 -19.6 .000 1.000 .000  0.0  0.0  0.0  0.0  0.0  0.0  0.0  21.2  0.0 0.0 0.0  -0.534 -15.9 -7.3 -23.3  0.0
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/6/2019.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 12255
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by ShelC »

I don't think he's our "6th man". But he was always projected as a rotational big for us.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 19339
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Indy »

O_Gardino wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:52 am

- We are seeing Washington's version of Oubre more often. He's going to be inconsistent, and he's going to make dumb plays. He's got to bring the energy and emotion every game, and tonight he made up for his offense with his defense. Maybe he misses Baynes the most.
David Nash tweeted a video breakdown recently that showed how often Rubio was directing Kelly in just a single defensive possession. The minutes we play without Baynes or Rubio on the court we just look completely lost as a team on defense. We have some good 1 on 1 defenders, but without a cohesive, loud voice directing them, it just doesn't work. Kelly has the physical skills to be a very good defender, but he needs someone directing him.

Also, David pointed this out early this season, but the frequency that Rubio goes up to each player during FTs or TOs or stoppages to get them all aligned and on the same page is shocking to see. We haven't had a floor general like that for a decade.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 20891
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Mori Chu »

- We are seeing Washington's version of Oubre more often. He's going to be inconsistent, and he's going to make dumb plays. He's got to bring the energy and emotion every game, and tonight he made up for his offense with his defense. Maybe he misses Baynes the most.
I go back and forth on Oubre. I like Oubre in the abstract, and I love his energy and the Valley Boyz camaredie he brings to our team. But I just wonder whether we could spend that $20m/year in better ways. If Oubre made half that much, maybe. But he seems like a pretty replacement-level SF to me, and those are a dime a dozen.

Can't we just cover his minutes using Bridges and Cam? Would we really be any worse without him? You can point to 1-2 games he has made a big impact, but wouldn't those other guys have similar peaks if we gave them his minutes?

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 12255
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by ShelC »

Well for one he's at $15 mil a year which is pretty fair, maybe even cheap, given the market IMO. SFs are more or less a dime a dozen which is why we have 3 of them and moved a 4th this past offseason. But you still need a couple effective ones and each guy brings something necessary to the table. In another year when we've had a longer look at Bridges and Cam, we may decide to move on from Kelly, move Bridges/Cam up the depth chart and draft a SF or sign a cheap one for added depth. But he's certainly not a negative right now and provides a little bit of everything, which we need. I don't think he's as impactful as Shawn was for us, but I'd rather have him than not even with Bridges and Cam here.

User avatar
bajanguy008
Posts: 7199
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Barbados, Caribbean

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by bajanguy008 »

Just saw a tweet with Book saying he knew the 3rd quarter was important cuz the last couple games they have come out slow after HT
He had 21 pts in the quarter. I can appreciate that assertiveness from him. Also saw this is the first time he's played in all the first 21 games to start a season

Cam's doing his thing. When he gets some 2nd year strength over the summer I think he gonna be real nice. He really runs the court well and has decent quickness going to the hoop and for sure he's not ready yet to play through contact at the rim but I think that's coming and add that to the jumper , he does have a chance to do some damage.

Gotta be honest, I'm gonna be bummed when Diallo goes back out of the rotation. Everyone talks about stretch bigs and spacing all the time but he just been so effective as a pick n roller in the key and the lil mid-range shots he's been money on too. Look at Trez for example, he's so integral to the Clips and Diallo doesn't have his raw power but gets the job done. I feel him and Baynes in the 2nd unit would work well. Think Monty gonna have to mix it up with him and Frank game by game but so far it has always been Diallo sitting
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Nodack »

I like Oubre. He brings energy and swag to the team. He goes overboard a little sometimes and has lapses in judgement. He also seems to make a lot of big plays in crunch time too.

One thing that bugs me about Booker lately is his passing. He likes to make long lofting cross court passes that have a lot of arc and give defenders time to get to them instead of bullet passes get there before the defender does giving the shooter time to shoot. Also they aren’t that accurate and instead of catching the pass in the bread basket and going up for the shot, they have to reach for the ball taking them out of position and they have to reset for the shot, taking too much time forcing them to rush their shot or not have time to shoot at all.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 25480
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Split T »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:15 am
- We are seeing Washington's version of Oubre more often. He's going to be inconsistent, and he's going to make dumb plays. He's got to bring the energy and emotion every game, and tonight he made up for his offense with his defense. Maybe he misses Baynes the most.
I go back and forth on Oubre. I like Oubre in the abstract, and I love his energy and the Valley Boyz camaredie he brings to our team. But I just wonder whether we could spend that $20m/year in better ways. If Oubre made half that much, maybe. But he seems like a pretty replacement-level SF to me, and those are a dime a dozen.

Can't we just cover his minutes using Bridges and Cam? Would we really be any worse without him? You can point to 1-2 games he has made a big impact, but wouldn't those other guys have similar peaks if we gave them his minutes?
Bridges and Cam are quite a bit behind Kelly as on ball scorers. Take out Oubre and Booker is really our only on ball scorer. Rubio can run the offense for sure, but he’s only a scoring threat because defenses play him to score. We need Oubre, he makes some boneheaded plays, but he’s a pretty unique player for us as a bigger wing that can drive and has high level athleticism.

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6620
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by O_Gardino »

I didn't mean to call into question Oubre's value to us. I think we need his emotion. It's one of the things I think the ssol teams missed after trading QRich.

We just have to take the good with the bad. He's got to bring the emotion even when his shot isn't falling.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 25480
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Split T »

Agreed...it’s the 80/20 rule. In order to get the 80, we’ve got to be ok with the 20. Maybe Oubre is more 70/30, still a positive though.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 33496
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Superbone »

ShelC wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:45 am
Kelly had some big defensive plays but also some boneheaded plays that could've really hurt us. I guess you gotta take the good with the bad. Still, would rather him out there than not.

Cam was nearly lights out and gave us some good minutes. Had a little trouble against Ingram but got better as the game went on. Made some bigs 3s late.
That was a fantastic Oubre block on Ball late. Loved that.

Cam set Phoenix Suns history last night as the first Suns rookie to make 4+ three pointers in consecutive games.
"Be Legendary."

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 33496
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Superbone »

Indy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:18 am
LazarusLong wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:51 am
The Bobster wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:40 pm
Oubre's not the brightest guy out there.
He goes for the spectacular without relying on sound, fundamental choices.
EJ has noted that Oubre, in some instances, should do a layup instead of trying for a splashy dunk.
He likes to play to the crowd ...
All of that is true, but it seems like if he tried to do the easy/right thing all the time, he would be way too slow. He just reacts, which is why he can jump and get the rebound/tip on 3 straight attempts without losing the ball. If he started to think about what he did first, he might make the right decision, but it would be too late. Gotta take the good with the bad. I will take his energy/swagger along with the boneheadedness right now because the team needs it.
There was one high flying rebound Oubre had in the first half where you clearly hear him say, "Give me that fucking ball!"
"Be Legendary."

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 19339
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:44 am
I like Oubre. He brings energy and swag to the team. He goes overboard a little sometimes and has lapses in judgement. He also seems to make a lot of big plays in crunch time too.

One thing that bugs me about Booker lately is his passing. He likes to make long lofting cross court passes that have a lot of arc and give defenders time to get to them instead of bullet passes get there before the defender does giving the shooter time to shoot. Also they aren’t that accurate and instead of catching the pass in the bread basket and going up for the shot, they have to reach for the ball taking them out of position and they have to reset for the shot, taking too much time forcing them to rush their shot or not have time to shoot at all.
Those make me scream or cringe, depending on how the game is going (or if I had a whiskey during the game).

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 33496
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: San Diego, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Superbone »

I like this kid:

"Be Legendary."

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Nodack »

The flu bug hitting the Suns?

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 8325
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by INFORMER »

Unfortunately, the Suns need Oubre. The lack of talent on the roster necessitates his presence on the roster. He makes life easier for Booker, because he is essentially the only other scorer we have. If we had gone with Doncic, we would have that other scorer to make life easier for Booker. It helps having a distributor/ball-handler like Rubio, but Rubio is an abysmal jumpshooter, so that limits his (positive) impact on offense.

Oubre's effort on the boards, blocks, and steals is also important because we chose to go with power forwards who don't defend and rebound, and drafted Cam Johnson over Brandon Clarke, whose hustle, defense, rebounding would complement the rest of the roster.

And as others have noted, his heart and toughness make a difference. So yeah, there are going to be plenty of frustrating and cringe-worthy moments with him, but until we get better players to surround around Booker, he is a keeper.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 8517
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (9-11) @ Pelicans (6-15), Thurs 12/5/19

Post by Nodack »

Oubre brings a lot of intangibles. He reminds me a little of Raja Bell. He was always the guy who showed up with a chip on his shoulder ready to fight.

Post Reply