NBA Draft 2020

[O_Gardino]

Haye's TO's worry me a little, as does his Euro experience (Ratiopharm, a mid-table German club, is not Real Madrid - where Doncic played - a top of the table Spanish club), so in many ways - and assuming the mock drafts are correct putting Hayes as a top 5 pick - I'd prefer to get Haliburton for a small price (or nothing at all) rather than break the bank for Hayes.

Agreed that we're ill-equipped to draft him.

Thanks for the perspective. Was his competition also lower level, or is it the same level of competition and just a worse club?

[O_Gardino]

I love Hayes in theory, but not when I watch the highlights. He doesn't look dominantly quick or smooth. I don't really trust my judgement from the YouTube videos though.

[virtual9mm]

Nice work on settling down - without fail every expat I meet who used to live in HK wishes they were still there; the funnest place ever and the only city an introvert can turn up to and within a year have 20 new best friends.

All my friends wish they were back there also but can't get their head around it financially - I could if I wanted to (work in finance) but my respiratory system hates pollution so instead am working on a plan to do business up there while based here in Sydney.

I think it is a great city for extroverts, kind of a shitty place for introverts and dreamers. I used to hate it. But now I have a nice place in a village house in Clear Water Bay and seldom go into Central. It is fine and I don't have to worry about COVID at least.

Ironically, it works fantastic financially. The tax rates here plus the US expat deductions make the effective tax rate low enough to get by.

How is Sydney treating you? I spent a month there last summer/winter there. Love the ice cream.

Incorrect use of introvert - more like quieter types with a propensity for extroversion that get brought out of their shells upon arrival; it is slightly soulless so agree with you about introverts / dreamers.

But that's the social life for you (which almost certainly explains why HK'ers have the highest life expectancy in the world as it's polluted, hectic, expensive, the food isn't the cleanest and they work some of the longest hours).

If you can land a job it's great - the HK friends I mention aren't all professionals and once you throw kids into the equation, the start up costs and smaller flat sizes with no outside space become problematic. I'm still single at 43.

And Sydney is surreal - it's hard to believe the quality of this place; the food, the coffee, beaches, weather etc, so no surprise it's high on the world's most liveable cities lists .. it's just not as fast paced as HK or London which I will miss.

Kids take HK out of the running as someplace you could live affordably if you are willing to live a bit outside of town and accept a smaller place. The local system sucks, the elite local schools like DBS are impossible to get into without legacy connections, and the international schools charge an arm and a leg and a kidney. But until you get to that point, you can save money even on a teaching salary. I'm married at 43 (same age haha) and I'm managing to survive between my teaching income and the tiny salary I am making off my startup.

Sydney is incredible. Where do you live there? I love the standup comedy, theaters, beaches, coffee shops (Ampersand on Oxford Street rocked so much that I wrote two b-school case studies on them) -- and above all -- the ice cream. Ciccione and Sons might be up there as the best in the world along with Tara's in Berkeley and Smitten in SF. Cow in the Moon and that Turkish joint in Newtown are also up there. A lot of Sydney reminded me of San Francisco and Newtown reminded me of a more vibrant Mission before greed ruined a city that I once loved dearly.

[virtual9mm]

And great choice on Clear Water Bay - one of my oldest and best bud's lives there .. Steve Loman?

You might know him as he's a part time snake catcher, along with William Sargent, of all random things .. their Facebook group here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hongkongsnakes/

For better or for worse, the only snake I see is the kind of Python that hangs out with Pandas (nerd programming joke). But it's awesome that your friend has this group.

[3rdside]

Haye's TO's worry me a little, as does his Euro experience (Ratiopharm, a mid-table German club, is not Real Madrid - where Doncic played - a top of the table Spanish club), so in many ways - and assuming the mock drafts are correct putting Hayes as a top 5 pick - I'd prefer to get Haliburton for a small price (or nothing at all) rather than break the bank for Hayes.

Agreed that we're ill-equipped to draft him.

Thanks for the perspective. Was his competition also lower level, or is it the same level of competition and just a worse club?

I'm not really a follower of Euro basketball but from what I can tell the German league is a decent league, but not as good as the heavyweight Spanish league, the Adriatic League (the Balkans) and almost certainly the Italian, Turkish and French leagues as well.

They also have the Euro League, which is an 18 club, best of the best of Europe league that's not entirely based on merit (11 clubs have automatic entry each year) and the Champions League which is a rival 32 club, best of the best of Europe league entirely based on merit, established in 2015.

None of Champions League clubs play in the Euro League .. yet .. but may never either, which would mean the fragmented, and confusing, structure is a permanent state of affairs.

Relative competition doesn't seem to be a deal breaker though as Lamelo Ball plays for the Illawarra Hawks - a Sydney based team in the NBL in Australia, which isn't as good as any of the leagues mentioned above, and I'm now hearing he's a contender to go #1. The Hawks finished dead last in the 9 team league.

[In2ition]

Haye's TO's worry me a little, as does his Euro experience (Ratiopharm, a mid-table German club, is not Real Madrid - where Doncic played - a top of the table Spanish club), so in many ways - and assuming the mock drafts are correct putting Hayes as a top 5 pick - I'd prefer to get Haliburton for a small price (or nothing at all) rather than break the bank for Hayes.

Agreed that we're ill-equipped to draft him.

Thanks for the perspective. Was his competition also lower level, or is it the same level of competition and just a worse club?

I'm not really a follower of Euro basketball but from what I can tell the German league is a decent league, but not as good as the heavyweight Spanish league, the Adriatic League (the Balkans) and almost certainly the Italian, Turkish and French leagues as well.

They also have the Euro League, which is an 18 club, best of the best of Europe league that's not entirely based on merit (11 clubs have automatic entry each year) and the Champions League which is a rival 32 club, best of the best of Europe league entirely based on merit, established in 2015.

None of Champions League clubs play in the Euro League .. yet .. but may never either, which would mean the fragmented, and confusing, structure is a permanent state of affairs.

Relative competition doesn't seem to be a deal breaker though as Lamelo Ball plays for the Illawarra Hawks - a Sydney based team in the NBL in Australia, which isn't as good as any of the leagues mentioned above, and I'm now hearing he's a contender to go #1. The Hawks finished dead last in the 9 team league.

I've heard those that watched the NBL league that the Hawks were far better this yr than they were previous, and they said that Lamelo was their best player and certainly not the reason they were so bad. This is not coming from me, since frankly I have no idea how the NBL teams are or how the Hawks in general were.

[3rdside]

I love Hayes in theory, but not when I watch the highlights. He doesn't look dominantly quick or smooth. I don't really trust my judgement from the YouTube videos though.

He looks agile enough but definitely not a super athlete, but not sure that's a huge deal as a pass first PG.

A couple things to add:

- Tankathon stats are really wrong:

>>> He had 6.2 ast to 3.2 TO's and not 5.4 ast to 3.2 TO's
>>> His 3pt % last season was .390% on 4.1 attempts and not .294% on 3.1 attempts
>>> He had 17.2ppg and 8.3ast per 36 and not 16.8ppg and 7.8ast

- He really is really left hand dominant - I can't remember seeing any draft prospects like that. Big threat imo, but he is a lefty which offsets this a bit from what I can tell (James Harden: "I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't a lefty").

[3rdside]

Haye's TO's worry me a little, as does his Euro experience (Ratiopharm, a mid-table German club, is not Real Madrid - where Doncic played - a top of the table Spanish club), so in many ways - and assuming the mock drafts are correct putting Hayes as a top 5 pick - I'd prefer to get Haliburton for a small price (or nothing at all) rather than break the bank for Hayes.

Agreed that we're ill-equipped to draft him.

Thanks for the perspective. Was his competition also lower level, or is it the same level of competition and just a worse club?

I'm not really a follower of Euro basketball but from what I can tell the German league is a decent league, but not as good as the heavyweight Spanish league, the Adriatic League (the Balkans) and almost certainly the Italian, Turkish and French leagues as well.

They also have the Euro League, which is an 18 club, best of the best of Europe league that's not entirely based on merit (11 clubs have automatic entry each year) and the Champions League which is a rival 32 club, best of the best of Europe league entirely based on merit, established in 2015.

None of Champions League clubs play in the Euro League .. yet .. but may never either, which would mean the fragmented, and confusing, structure is a permanent state of affairs.

Relative competition doesn't seem to be a deal breaker though as Lamelo Ball plays for the Illawarra Hawks - a Sydney based team in the NBL in Australia, which isn't as good as any of the leagues mentioned above, and I'm now hearing he's a contender to go #1. The Hawks finished dead last in the 9 team league.

I've heard those that watched the NBL league that the Hawks were far better this yr than they were previous, and they said that Lamelo was their best player and certainly not the reason they were so bad. This is not coming from me, since frankly I have no idea how the NBL teams are or how the Hawks in general were.

There's quite a few credible Aussie Suns fans on twitter who've watched him closely and say he's the real deal.

[Split T]

I love Hayes in theory, but not when I watch the highlights. He doesn't look dominantly quick or smooth. I don't really trust my judgement from the YouTube videos though.

He looks agile enough but definitely not a super athlete, but not sure that's a huge deal as a pass first PG.

A couple things to add:

- Tankathon stats are really wrong:

>>> He had 6.2 ast to 3.2 TO's and not 5.4 ast to 3.2 TO's
>>> His 3pt % last season was .390% on 4.1 attempts and not .294% on 3.1 attempts
>>> He had 17.2ppg and 8.3ast per 36 and not 16.8ppg and 7.8ast

- He really is really left hand dominant - I can't remember seeing any draft prospects like that. Big threat imo, but he is a lefty which offsets this a bit from what I can tell (James Harden: "I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't a lefty").

There’s some missing stats. B-ball-ref doesn’t have everything, so those tankathon stats are just including everything. I ran into the same issue with people reporting 29% 3pt shooting, which I learned is accurate for all the games.

[3rdside]

I love Hayes in theory, but not when I watch the highlights. He doesn't look dominantly quick or smooth. I don't really trust my judgement from the YouTube videos though.

He looks agile enough but definitely not a super athlete, but not sure that's a huge deal as a pass first PG.

A couple things to add:

- Tankathon stats are really wrong:

>>> He had 6.2 ast to 3.2 TO's and not 5.4 ast to 3.2 TO's
>>> His 3pt % last season was .390% on 4.1 attempts and not .294% on 3.1 attempts
>>> He had 17.2ppg and 8.3ast per 36 and not 16.8ppg and 7.8ast

- He really is really left hand dominant - I can't remember seeing any draft prospects like that. Big threat imo, but he is a lefty which offsets this a bit from what I can tell (James Harden: "I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't a lefty").

There’s some missing stats. B-ball-ref doesn’t have everything, so those tankathon stats are just including everything. I ran into the same issue with people reporting 29% 3pt shooting, which I learned is accurate for all the games.

Tankathon look like they're reporting his 3 year combined international average - dude was only 18 years old so I'm comfortable going off BBall Ref's reporting of his most recent season (unless I'm missing something..)

[3rdside]

*For his 3pt % anyway, everything else is kind of like just his final year. Tankathon feels confused.

[3rdside]

Nice work on settling down - without fail every expat I meet who used to live in HK wishes they were still there; the funnest place ever and the only city an introvert can turn up to and within a year have 20 new best friends.

All my friends wish they were back there also but can't get their head around it financially - I could if I wanted to (work in finance) but my respiratory system hates pollution so instead am working on a plan to do business up there while based here in Sydney.

I think it is a great city for extroverts, kind of a shitty place for introverts and dreamers. I used to hate it. But now I have a nice place in a village house in Clear Water Bay and seldom go into Central. It is fine and I don't have to worry about COVID at least.

Ironically, it works fantastic financially. The tax rates here plus the US expat deductions make the effective tax rate low enough to get by.

How is Sydney treating you? I spent a month there last summer/winter there. Love the ice cream.

Incorrect use of introvert - more like quieter types with a propensity for extroversion that get brought out of their shells upon arrival; it is slightly soulless so agree with you about introverts / dreamers.

But that's the social life for you (which almost certainly explains why HK'ers have the highest life expectancy in the world as it's polluted, hectic, expensive, the food isn't the cleanest and they work some of the longest hours).

If you can land a job it's great - the HK friends I mention aren't all professionals and once you throw kids into the equation, the start up costs and smaller flat sizes with no outside space become problematic. I'm still single at 43.

And Sydney is surreal - it's hard to believe the quality of this place; the food, the coffee, beaches, weather etc, so no surprise it's high on the world's most liveable cities lists .. it's just not as fast paced as HK or London which I will miss.

Kids take HK out of the running as someplace you could live affordably if you are willing to live a bit outside of town and accept a smaller place. The local system sucks, the elite local schools like DBS are impossible to get into without legacy connections, and the international schools charge an arm and a leg and a kidney. But until you get to that point, you can save money even on a teaching salary. I'm married at 43 (same age haha) and I'm managing to survive between my teaching income and the tiny salary I am making off my startup.

Sydney is incredible. Where do you live there? I love the standup comedy, theaters, beaches, coffee shops (Ampersand on Oxford Street rocked so much that I wrote two b-school case studies on them) -- and above all -- the ice cream. Ciccione and Sons might be up there as the best in the world along with Tara's in Berkeley and Smitten in SF. Cow in the Moon and that Turkish joint in Newtown are also up there. A lot of Sydney reminded me of San Francisco and Newtown reminded me of a more vibrant Mission before greed ruined a city that I once loved dearly.

The fees and charges I'm hearing for good local schooling there - damn.

I'm camped in an AirBnB in Elizabeth Bay 5 minutes walk from Kings Cross waiting for my new contract to start. Waiting a little anxiously mind you with the Covid job market and cost of this city, but assuming I do I'll probably move to Bondi Junction.

Not the nicest suburb but is well connected to both Bondi Beach and the City.

Cheers for the cafe insight and yeah this city has exceeded expectations, which is saying something. And they've finally ditched the stupid lock out drinking laws and are working on turning it into a proper 24hr city, so the future looks even better.


San Francisco when I went in 2016 was both amazing and off the chain - the crazies are absolutely everywhere, likewise human excrement and drug use. USA took a wrong turn somewhere, we're all hoping you turn it around.

What was it about Ampersand that made you write the case studies?

[3rdside]

And great choice on Clear Water Bay - one of my oldest and best bud's lives there .. Steve Loman?

You might know him as he's a part time snake catcher, along with William Sargent, of all random things .. their Facebook group here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hongkongsnakes/

For better or for worse, the only snake I see is the kind of Python that hangs out with Pandas (nerd programming joke). But it's awesome that your friend has this group.

Haha I know all about it as I spent 6 months earlier this year studying Python and Pandas .. it's worth going on one of the snake trails with Will as you are guaranteed to see something.

He's just been written about in the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/worl ... nakes.html

[Split T]

I love Hayes in theory, but not when I watch the highlights. He doesn't look dominantly quick or smooth. I don't really trust my judgement from the YouTube videos though.

He looks agile enough but definitely not a super athlete, but not sure that's a huge deal as a pass first PG.

A couple things to add:

- Tankathon stats are really wrong:

>>> He had 6.2 ast to 3.2 TO's and not 5.4 ast to 3.2 TO's
>>> His 3pt % last season was .390% on 4.1 attempts and not .294% on 3.1 attempts
>>> He had 17.2ppg and 8.3ast per 36 and not 16.8ppg and 7.8ast

- He really is really left hand dominant - I can't remember seeing any draft prospects like that. Big threat imo, but he is a lefty which offsets this a bit from what I can tell (James Harden: "I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't a lefty").

There’s some missing stats. B-ball-ref doesn’t have everything, so those tankathon stats are just including everything. I ran into the same issue with people reporting 29% 3pt shooting, which I learned is accurate for all the games.

Tankathon look like they're reporting his 3 year combined international average - dude was only 18 years old so I'm comfortable going off BBall Ref's reporting of his most recent season (unless I'm missing something..)

Ya b-ball ref only has his numbers from the EuroCup for some reason. So he shot 39% in those 10 games, but 29% of you include his German league numbers. I haven’t looked at tankathon, but I’d guess they have them combined.

[3rdside]

Got it ... it's me who's confused.

And if that's the case then I'm cooling on him a little.

[Split T]

Ya I cooled on him a bit when I found that out as well. I still think he’s a good prospect and would definitely consider him at 10, just not a guy I’m gonna clamor for or trade up for.

[3rdside]

I'm coming around to that - move up for Haliburton or Toppin, possibly take Hayes at 10 if moving up isn't possible and they're both gone, in consideration alongside Okoro, Vassell and Nesmith (though Okoro will likely be gone by then).

I feel like we're a good chance to get someone decent.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

In a number of mock drafts I see Hayes AND Haliburton going 7 and lower...we really should do something to move up, whichever we go for.

VT

[3rdside]

If any draft will have variances from the mocks, this shortened year with no clear cut superstars is surely the year. I now think Hayes is a good chance to drop from his #4 status and Haliburton rise from #10 (Tankathon).

But yes, i'm on the same page as you about moving up - for Haliburton anyway.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I'd go Hayes then Haliburton, but we still face the reality that if neither is available when we pick, its a lot opportunity...and a strong PG option an dPf are on the table; we need a solution and standing pat seems to leave in the cold on either option. If we don't want to move up, we should use the pick in a trade for a player that can build us on one front or the other. We really have need of both...so...