Suns News: Week 4 1/11-1/117

[Split T]

I listened to that podcast as well and wondered why they didn't talk about he Suns issues at all. They said nothing about the lack of front court depth and just assume the starters will figure it out, I guess.

The Suns will be a playoff team, but to put them ahead of other teams in their group like Portland, Denver and Utah, who have playoff experience, feels very hot-takey.

Ya, especially since the podcast came after the Washington game...I mean I didn’t expect them to watch that game, but check the box score at least.

They mentioned Paul’s struggles shooting and Ayton’s lack of being able to catch Paul’s passes, but seems like they think those things will be figured out. We do create good looks on offense, though a little 3-point heavy at the moment. We need the CP3 midrange game and CP3/Ayton pick and roll to start producing for the times we go cold from 3.

I think Simmons and Russillo tend to put too much weight into the "beautiful" parts of basketball. Passing, teamwork, body language; those things are important, but the 8-pass possession ending in a good shot isn't always as good as the 1 or 2-pass possession that ends in a layup. The Suns lack that balance, and in my opinion, it's because the guy who should be finishing the 2-pass possessions isn't doing his part.

Yep, that’s our big swing this year. If Ayton decides to be good, we can be very dangerous.

[Indy]

I listened to that podcast as well and wondered why they didn't talk about he Suns issues at all. They said nothing about the lack of front court depth and just assume the starters will figure it out, I guess.

The Suns will be a playoff team, but to put them ahead of other teams in their group like Portland, Denver and Utah, who have playoff experience, feels very hot-takey.

Ya, especially since the podcast came after the Washington game...I mean I didn’t expect them to watch that game, but check the box score at least.

They mentioned Paul’s struggles shooting and Ayton’s lack of being able to catch Paul’s passes, but seems like they think those things will be figured out. We do create good looks on offense, though a little 3-point heavy at the moment. We need the CP3 midrange game and CP3/Ayton pick and roll to start producing for the times we go cold from 3.

I think Simmons and Russillo tend to put too much weight into the "beautiful" parts of basketball. Passing, teamwork, body language; those things are important, but the 8-pass possession ending in a good shot isn't always as good as the 1 or 2-pass possession that ends in a layup. The Suns lack that balance, and in my opinion, it's because the guy who should be finishing the 2-pass possessions isn't doing his part.

Yep, that’s our big swing this year. If Ayton decides to be good, we can be very dangerous.

You think he can just decide to be good? I don't think it is nearly as simple as that. You are asking him to just change who he is.

[Split T]

Maybe it was a poor choice of words...I don’t have much faith in Ayton becoming really good...I’ve been a big proponent of moving him elsewhere. But, his offense has backtracked for some reason, if we just got pre-shutdown Ayton, I’d be happy the rest of the year. I’m not sure what’s keeping him from doing that, but whatever it is needs to be fixed.

[Indy]

Maybe it was a poor choice of words...I don’t have much faith in Ayton becoming really good...I’ve been a big proponent of moving him elsewhere. But, his offense has backtracked for some reason, if we just got pre-shutdown Ayton, I’d be happy the rest of the year. I’m not sure what’s keeping him from doing that, but whatever it is needs to be fixed.

This isn't fair to Ayton, but I am assuming he doesn't really care all that much about basketball, and it was a means to an end. He is now a guy that gets paid nearly a million dollars every month, and will do so at the very least through the next two seasons. He really has to do the bare minimum to keep that money. If he does just that, someone will still offer him a multi-year contract with a huge raise, just based on potential. That is his goal. Get to contract #2. His own words. If he gets there, he will have made over 150M by the time he is 28.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Maybe it was a poor choice of words...I don’t have much faith in Ayton becoming really good...I’ve been a big proponent of moving him elsewhere. But, his offense has backtracked for some reason, if we just got pre-shutdown Ayton, I’d be happy the rest of the year. I’m not sure what’s keeping him from doing that, but whatever it is needs to be fixed.

This isn't fair to Ayton, but I am assuming he doesn't really care all that much about basketball, and it was a means to an end. He is now a guy that gets paid nearly a million dollars every month, and will do so at the very least through the next two seasons. He really has to do the bare minimum to keep that money. If he does just that, someone will still offer him a multi-year contract with a huge raise, just based on potential. That is his goal. Get to contract #2. His own words. If he gets there, he will have made over 150M by the time he is 28.

I've thought about this as well. It's seeming more and more likely that everyone around him has told him he needs to play basketball his whole life because he's been blessed with the physical attributes that can enable him to succeed, and he really just wants to make those people happy. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but being great requires an insane work ethic and mental toughness that I don't think he has because he doesn't live and breathe basketball.

He'll get a second contract, and a third one, and probably have at least a 10 year career in the NBA. So did Sam Bowie.

[Superbone]

It was a big tell when Ayton said before he had even played a single NBA game that he was just trying to figure out how to get that second big contract.

[Split T]

Ya I brushed that off when he originally said it, but seems like I shouldn’t have

[BigLewy]

Am I crazy for thinking that I'd rather have Bridges than Ayton at this point? He has so much potential, so it's maddening. If he had the work ethic of Amare, good grief. I'm just scared of giving him a max extension, because that is most likely what it will take since another team will surely max him out. I know bigs take longer to develop and he's only 22, but I'd almost try to cash out at this point, especially since Bridges is becoming a star and will deserve a huge extension as well. I'd have traded Oubre and Ayton for KAT last year, but that ship has sailed.

[Superbone]

It took Wood a while to get going. Maybe we just have to be patient and Ayton will get there eventually. Maybe he doesn’t become the dominant big man we envisioned but I could see him doing stuff along the lines of Wood whom everyone is pining for.

[Superbone]

So, when do we finally play again? Grizzlies on Monday?

[Ring_Wanted]

Am I crazy for thinking that I'd rather have Bridges than Ayton at this point? He has so much potential, so it's maddening. If he had the work ethic of Amare, good grief. I'm just scared of giving him a max extension, because that is most likely what it will take since another team will surely max him out. I know bigs take longer to develop and he's only 22, but I'd almost try to cash out at this point, especially since Bridges is becoming a star and will deserve a huge extension as well. I'd have traded Oubre and Ayton for KAT last year, but that ship has sailed.

At one point every Suns fan realized Amare was never going to be the defender or rebounder his gifts would allow. Ayton looks the same, except on the opposite side of the court.

Maybe what worries me most (even moreso than lack of aggressiveness) is that he has big hands but he is fumbling passes more than ever. I wonder if he is off PEDs and if he was taking some kind of amphetamine (those really help with hand-eye coordination). Or maybe he is just asleep on the court and is not actually thinking about what is going on.

[ShelC]

Ayton's not a passionate basketball player. Probably doesn't really love the game as others have said. And most likely, HS and college were "easy" for him because he was bigger and stronger than everyone else. Now the NBA is "work" and it's a classic case of going up against guys who are as big and as strong and as fast as you are so it's not as fun and maybe less interesting.

Also thinking he weighed less in college and had more bounce, now he's growing into his body and filling out some so he's lost a bit of athleticism.

[Indy]

Am I crazy for thinking that I'd rather have Bridges than Ayton at this point? He has so much potential, so it's maddening. If he had the work ethic of Amare, good grief. I'm just scared of giving him a max extension, because that is most likely what it will take since another team will surely max him out. I know bigs take longer to develop and he's only 22, but I'd almost try to cash out at this point, especially since Bridges is becoming a star and will deserve a huge extension as well. I'd have traded Oubre and Ayton for KAT last year, but that ship has sailed.

At one point every Suns fan realized Amare was never going to be the defender or rebounder his gifts would allow. Ayton looks the same, except on the opposite side of the court.

Maybe what worries me most (even moreso than lack of aggressiveness) is that he has big hands but he is fumbling passes more than ever. I wonder if he is off PEDs and if he was taking some kind of amphetamine (those really help with hand-eye coordination). Or maybe he is just asleep on the court and is not actually thinking about what is going on.

this

[ShelC]

If it really was PEDs in college...man.

[O_Gardino]

Maybe it was a poor choice of words...I don’t have much faith in Ayton becoming really good...I’ve been a big proponent of moving him elsewhere. But, his offense has backtracked for some reason, if we just got pre-shutdown Ayton, I’d be happy the rest of the year. I’m not sure what’s keeping him from doing that, but whatever it is needs to be fixed.

This isn't fair to Ayton, but I am assuming he doesn't really care all that much about basketball, and it was a means to an end. He is now a guy that gets paid nearly a million dollars every month, and will do so at the very least through the next two seasons. He really has to do the bare minimum to keep that money. If he does just that, someone will still offer him a multi-year contract with a huge raise, just based on potential. That is his goal. Get to contract #2. His own words. If he gets there, he will have made over 150M by the time he is 28.

I've thought about this as well. It's seeming more and more likely that everyone around him has told him he needs to play basketball his whole life because he's been blessed with the physical attributes that can enable him to succeed, and he really just wants to make those people happy. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but being great requires an insane work ethic and mental toughness that I don't think he has because he doesn't live and breathe basketball.

He'll get a second contract, and a third one, and probably have at least a 10 year career in the NBA. So did Sam Bowie.

JaVale McGee is still in the NBA, and he's a knucklehead on a whole different level. Ayton will have a fine career, and will do better on teams where he isn't expected to be a star.

I don't think DA hates basketball, I think it just doesn't come naturally to him. And you're right. He doesn't live and breathe hoops. It's an job he likes, but it's still just a job.

[O_Gardino]

Of course it was PEDs in college. There were all those articles about how the coaching staff had never seen anyone transform their bodies so fast. It was a huge red flag at the time.

[Superbone]

At one point every Suns fan realized Amare was never going to be the defender or rebounder his gifts would allow.

That darn 22" waist!

[Charlie Smithy!]

Man, so not only did we take the wrong guy at number one, but we also got straight-up bamboozled as well.

I assume that someday I will come to a proper acceptance of this ... someday

[Superbone]

Man, so not only did we take the wrong guy at number one, but we also got straight-up bamboozled as well.

I assume that someday I will come to a proper acceptance of this ... someday

The front office at the time should have had ALL of the info to make the right decision. PEDs or not. Psychological profile. Yet, they still chose him over Doncic. I have no doubt it will end up very similar to Bowie vs Jordan back in the day when all is said and done. But, not quite as drastic on both sides. Ayton will be better than Bowie and Dragic won't be as good as Jordan. It will be closer to the middle by a bit but still...

[Indy]

The comparison should be hakeem vs MJ, not Bowie vs MJ. That tells you right there we made a huge mistake.