How many 1sts? I think you kinda have to as long as it’s not the 4 unprotected 1sts plus pick swaps. If it’s 2 1sts, you’ve gotta do it. Love Bridges, but Tatum/Book is a special combo going forward.
Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
- AmareIsGod
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Nope. Wouldn't trade Ayton + Mikal, much less throw in 1st round picks. Tatum + Booker is a combo devoid of a point guard and we're left with nobody to man the middle of the paint on defense. For all of the crap we give Ayton for not doing enough on offense, we're all quick to forget the dominant stretches of defense he provides on the perimeter and in the paint.
Tatum puts up some great numbers but his shooting % is behind Devin and requires nearly 3 more FG attempts per game than Booker. You wouldn't have nearly the amount of contribution from the rest of your roster and lots of guys standing around with Tatum needing 21 shot attempts and Booker needing 18 a game.
Also, Tatum has a defensive rating of 110.7 this season. Booker has a defensive rating of 109.9. For all the crap we give Booker about defense, he's better this season than Tatum. Ayton has a defensive rating of 107.5. That's nearly 3 less points per 100 possessions.
Last edited by AmareIsGod on Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Defensive rating means essentially nothing. Tatum is a much better defender. I just think it’d be much easier to replace Ayton. Getting a 2nd primary scorer would be great. And we still have CP3, so not sure what you mean by devoid of PG.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:54 pmNope. Wouldn't trade Ayton + Mikal, much less throw in 1st round picks. Tatum + Booker is a combo devoid of a point guard and we're left with nobody to man the middle of the paint on defense. For all of the crap we give Ayton for not doing enough on offense, we're all quick to forget the dominant stretches of defense he provides on the perimeter and in the paint.
Tatum puts up some great numbers but his shooting % is behind Devin and requires nearly 3 more FG attempts per game than Booker. You wouldn't have nearly the amount of contribution from the rest of your roster and lots of guys standing around with Tatum needing 21 shot attempts and Booker needing 18 a game.
Also, Tatum has a defensive rating of 110.7 this season. Booker has a defensive rating of 109.9. For all the crap we give Booker about defense, he's better this season than Tatum. Ayton has a defensive rating of 107.5. That's nearly 3 less points per 100 possessions.
- AmareIsGod
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
I guess I wasn't looking at it in the context of making the trade today and was thinking down the road. I feel like CP3 has shown, at least lately, he's been great as a 2nd primary scorer when needed.Split T wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:15 pmDefensive rating means essentially nothing. Tatum is a much better defender. I just think it’d be much easier to replace Ayton. Getting a 2nd primary scorer would be great. And we still have CP3, so not sure what you mean by devoid of PG.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:54 pmNope. Wouldn't trade Ayton + Mikal, much less throw in 1st round picks. Tatum + Booker is a combo devoid of a point guard and we're left with nobody to man the middle of the paint on defense. For all of the crap we give Ayton for not doing enough on offense, we're all quick to forget the dominant stretches of defense he provides on the perimeter and in the paint.Split T wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:26 pmHow many 1sts? I think you kinda have to as long as it’s not the 4 unprotected 1sts plus pick swaps. If it’s 2 1sts, you’ve gotta do it. Love Bridges, but Tatum/Book is a special combo going forward.Wally_West wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:54 pmWould y’all trade Ayton, Mikal, and 1st rounders for Tatum?
Tatum puts up some great numbers but his shooting % is behind Devin and requires nearly 3 more FG attempts per game than Booker. You wouldn't have nearly the amount of contribution from the rest of your roster and lots of guys standing around with Tatum needing 21 shot attempts and Booker needing 18 a game.
Also, Tatum has a defensive rating of 110.7 this season. Booker has a defensive rating of 109.9. For all the crap we give Booker about defense, he's better this season than Tatum. Ayton has a defensive rating of 107.5. That's nearly 3 less points per 100 possessions.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
- Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
It would be an over achievement for Bridges to become 80% of what Jayson Tatum is right now. Not to mention Tatum is a year and a half younger than Bridges.
Ayton is replaceable every summer. In fact, I hope he's replaced later this summer and its for someone who can actually be a future star next to Booker.
Ayton is replaceable every summer. In fact, I hope he's replaced later this summer and its for someone who can actually be a future star next to Booker.
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- Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Perhaps I’m severely undervaluing Tatum, but Ayton, Bridges AND pickS (plural, to boot) is a huge overpaid for a very, very talented, but not elite forward. That is a package on my mind reserved for Giannis, Davis, Durant and some other Top 5 talent Mega Star. Of course it might be not enough, but as a package we would be left out of options to improve, so it better brings along someone who is enough by himself to elevate this team. Tatum doesn’t have that lifting, otherwise Boston would be much better.
Two out of three should be enough for Boston, or we both are better like we are. Boston currently have Tatum, and we currently have Bridges and Ayton, and I’m very pleased with the early returns, they are the team needing to shake off the roster, not us. And that’s not considering the future building blocks coming from the picks.
Two out of three should be enough for Boston, or we both are better like we are. Boston currently have Tatum, and we currently have Bridges and Ayton, and I’m very pleased with the early returns, they are the team needing to shake off the roster, not us. And that’s not considering the future building blocks coming from the picks.
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
The only way one of those "elite" guys you mentioned would be traded for such a low return, would be if they asked out and nobody else had something to offer.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:04 pmPerhaps I’m severely undervaluing Tatum, but Ayton, Bridges AND pickS (plural, to boot) is a huge overpaid for a very, very talented, but not elite forward. That is a package on my mind reserved for Giannis, Davis, Durant and some other Top 5 talent Mega Star. Of course it might be not enough, but as a package we would be left out of options to improve, so it better brings along someone who is enough by himself to elevate this team. Tatum doesn’t have that lifting, otherwise Boston would be much better.
Two out of three should be enough for Boston, or we both are better like we are. Boston currently have Tatum, and we currently have Bridges and Ayton, and I’m very pleased with the early returns, they are the team needing to shake off the roster, not us. And that’s not considering the future building blocks coming from the picks.
- Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Agreed, but as I said, salary wise considerations and roster construction makes it an “All in” trade, so we have to aim high. CP3, Booker and Tatum + mid-level-exception talent and NO future picks are not carrying us much further than our current core, even if Bridges and Ayton stops developing. Booker, Tatum and “future Star coming for Paul” still feels short handed, very “depends on who comes”. Bottom line, is a lateral move to me, and we can do lateral without selling the farm.
Davis went to Lakers for Lonzo Ball, 2019 Brandon Ingram (not 2021 Brandon Ingram) Josh Hart, and three first-round picks. Opportunistic and all, it’s the kind of move we need if we are going to sell the farm.
Davis went to Lakers for Lonzo Ball, 2019 Brandon Ingram (not 2021 Brandon Ingram) Josh Hart, and three first-round picks. Opportunistic and all, it’s the kind of move we need if we are going to sell the farm.
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
I just don’t think Ayton has a ton of value. I love Bridges, but he’s not ever going to be Tatum. The 1sts would be late 1sts. I honestly don’t think it’s a ton. Boston wouldn’t go for it.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:04 pmPerhaps I’m severely undervaluing Tatum, but Ayton, Bridges AND pickS (plural, to boot) is a huge overpaid for a very, very talented, but not elite forward. That is a package on my mind reserved for Giannis, Davis, Durant and some other Top 5 talent Mega Star. Of course it might be not enough, but as a package we would be left out of options to improve, so it better brings along someone who is enough by himself to elevate this team. Tatum doesn’t have that lifting, otherwise Boston would be much better.
Two out of three should be enough for Boston, or we both are better like we are. Boston currently have Tatum, and we currently have Bridges and Ayton, and I’m very pleased with the early returns, they are the team needing to shake off the roster, not us. And that’s not considering the future building blocks coming from the picks.
And I’m not putting Boston’s record against Tatum. They were in the eastern finals last year. They have been hurt by injuries this year. Kemba isn’t the same, Smart is out and they lost Hayward. Plus Tatum got Covid and missed time as well.
- Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
This is silly. Jayson Tatum is an All-NBA level player. Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton are not.
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- AmareIsGod
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Yeah but.. Bridges + Ayton + 1 or more 1st round picks?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:37 pmThis is silly. Jayson Tatum is an All-NBA level player. Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton are not.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Who said anything different?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:37 pmThis is silly. Jayson Tatum is an All-NBA level player. Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton are not.
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
I guess no one, but that's my point. It's always better to be on the end of the deal that nets the best player.Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:41 pmWho said anything different?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:37 pmThis is silly. Jayson Tatum is an All-NBA level player. Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton are not.
Last edited by Flagrant Fowl on Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Plus a role player or 2? Of course... the picks are the last thing I’d be worried about.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:41 pmYeah but.. Bridges + Ayton + 1 or more 1st round picks?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:37 pmThis is silly. Jayson Tatum is an All-NBA level player. Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton are not.
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Yes. Of course not some dumb amount of picks, but like Split said, those picks would expected to be late in the round anyway.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:41 pmYeah but.. Bridges + Ayton + 1 or more 1st round picks?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:37 pmThis is silly. Jayson Tatum is an All-NBA level player. Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton are not.
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
The only reason you would be against the trade from a Suns perspective is homerism.
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Disagree. How many 1st round picks are you giving them? It wasn't specified. Also, as much as we bag on him, Ayton isn't as easily replaced as what's been said here. We'd have a big hole in the middle.
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Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
Guilty
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Re: Around the League: Week 9 2/15-2/21
We can all disagree here, but we are all homers. Like has been discussed, nobody was talking about 4 picks.
I doubt any GM in the league outside of our (and maybe not even him) would turn down this trade of Boston offered it.