Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Split T »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:22 pm
Our depth is one of our greatest strengths. We have almost nobody on the entire roster about whom I say, "Oof, he's bad, get him out of there and back onto the bench." It's an impressive roster construction, despite being a little thin at backup big-man spots.
Yep, really the only time you could say that was when we were playing Damian Jones...I don’t count Jalen or Ty-Shon because they only play garbage minutes anyways.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by specialsauce »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:08 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:23 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:38 pm


Don’t think we’ll see him again this season
I hear Dr. Bob Carver did a great job on his first ever surgery. Took a knife, cut some things, used big words. Time table for recovery- no fucking clue. Source- Roberto Sarverello, head athletic trainer who was interviewed at Party City picking up Cam Johnson’s ridiculous face mask.
ROFL. Reminds me of Robot's classic posts.
We’re overdue for one of his

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:10 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:53 am
Listened to the game theory podcast where Sam Vecenie had Nekias Duncan on. Nekias hot take was that he has the Suns in the finals...with the caveat that he’d need to see a fully healthy Lakers team.
It does feel like we have a legitimate chance. But I think both of the LA teams are going to be really hard to beat. I don't think I would bet any money on us making the Finals this year, but I don't think it is crazy at all.

The main worry I have is that our wings seem to disappear in big games. It ends up being CP3 and Book trying to do everything because the others are ice cold shooting. I don't think we can win the tough playoff series unless other guys show up.
This is the strategy other teams will use to beat the Suns. Pack the middle and take away the mid-range shots as best as you can by mixing up the PnR defense. Double Ayton when he catches the ball in a position where he has to make a move. Make the wings hit contested 3's. Mix in zone defense when Paul is carving them up.

The Suns have shown they can overcome that defensive strategy, but it absolutely requires at least two wing/forward guys show up offensively. I worry that Paul and Booker will lose trust in the role players in tight games. The Knicks game was a great testament of trust in Mikal and Cam to bounce back for a great second half. Will Paul and Booker have the same patience in a game 3 let a lone an elimination game?
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by pickle »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:10 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:53 am
Listened to the game theory podcast where Sam Vecenie had Nekias Duncan on. Nekias hot take was that he has the Suns in the finals...with the caveat that he’d need to see a fully healthy Lakers team.
It does feel like we have a legitimate chance. But I think both of the LA teams are going to be really hard to beat. I don't think I would bet any money on us making the Finals this year, but I don't think it is crazy at all.

The main worry I have is that our wings seem to disappear in big games. It ends up being CP3 and Book trying to do everything because the others are ice cold shooting. I don't think we can win the tough playoff series unless other guys show up.
Apparently some fan put 10k on the Hawks to win it all this year. The payout is 1.5 mil. Bold.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by pickle »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:22 pm
Our depth is one of our greatest strengths. We have almost nobody on the entire roster about whom I say, "Oof, he's bad, get him out of there and back onto the bench." It's an impressive roster construction, despite being a little thin at backup big-man spots.
Chris Vernon of the Ringer has this famous "don't play anyone that sucks" rule, which applies very well for the Suns. But as FF says, I do have some concerns that in the playoffs when things get tough our current strategy of riding CP3/Booker and anyone else who has a pulse that night might bog down. The two Cams are the most sure things on any given night in terms of delivering scoring help, but neither is consistent. If Mikal ever becomes consistent he'd be a top 30 player in the league..

In other news, the Magic picked up Mo Wagner. Was hoping we'd give him a shot, but I guess that was never gonna happen because we aren't going to waive a guaranteed contract just to shore up our depth issues.

Wish we had a bigger scoring guard off the bench like Burks and a guy like Wagner in the Moore/Galloway spots. Both of those guys are really nice veteran presences but I wish we had a little more size all around.

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Superbone »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:49 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:23 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:38 pm


Don’t think we’ll see him again this season
I hear Dr. Bob Carver did a great job on his first ever surgery. Took a knife, cut some things, used big words. Time table for recovery- no fucking clue. Source- Roberto Sarverello, head athletic trainer who was interviewed at Party City picking up Cam Johnson’s ridiculous face mask.
Lol. I laughed really hard at this.
Yeah, that was Robotesque. :lol:
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Bucktastic365
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Bucktastic365 »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:10 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:53 am
Listened to the game theory podcast where Sam Vecenie had Nekias Duncan on. Nekias hot take was that he has the Suns in the finals...with the caveat that he’d need to see a fully healthy Lakers team.
It does feel like we have a legitimate chance. But I think both of the LA teams are going to be really hard to beat. I don't think I would bet any money on us making the Finals this year, but I don't think it is crazy at all.

The main worry I have is that our wings seem to disappear in big games. It ends up being CP3 and Book trying to do everything because the others are ice cold shooting. I don't think we can win the tough playoff series unless other guys show up.

They need to learn more versatility. It's literally a 3 or nothing. Maybe a cut every once in a while. The pull-ups are a nice start, but Cam specifically needs to learn to post up on mismatches.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by pickle »

It takes time for these guys to pick up and apply new skills. I am actually quite impressed with Cam's willingness to keep letting it fly despite that poor start.

After the NCAA finals game, I heard some pundits give a real harsh take of Kispert from Gonzaga, the logic being that while he missed a few shots, he needs to keep shooting because that's the only reason he's on the court; that he stopped shooting after missing a few was far worse, that he needed to be 3/17 from the field rather than 1/7 and stop shooting (don't remember exact statline).

Obviously that's not entirely true of Cam, as he's also a very smart and willing positional defender who has real length if not strength to bother opposing wings, but that he continued to put up shots was great. He also makes cuts, but I think it takes a little time for the other guys to consistently look for his cutting rather than spotting up in the corner as his game continues to mature.

Mikal is already a decently effective cutter and this year he's been more willing to pump fake and attack the close out. The next phase in his development after he perfects that mid range pull up / floater game is to start taking guys off the dribble. If he does either of those consistently, he becomes a top 30 player, if not better.

One other thing, I know it's human nature to avoid large masses hurtling towards you at high speed, but I wish more of these guys would learn to pump fake a guy into the air, and lean into them to create foul shots. I remember at least one possession against the Knicks, might have been Kaminsky, where he got the defender in the air, tried to side step, and let the shot clock expire.

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by bajanguy008 »

pickle wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:49 pm
It takes time for these guys to pick up and apply new skills. I am actually quite impressed with Cam's willingness to keep letting it fly despite that poor start.

After the NCAA finals game, I heard some pundits give a real harsh take of Kispert from Gonzaga, the logic being that while he missed a few shots, he needs to keep shooting because that's the only reason he's on the court; that he stopped shooting after missing a few was far worse, that he needed to be 3/17 from the field rather than 1/7 and stop shooting (don't remember exact statline).

Obviously that's not entirely true of Cam, as he's also a very smart and willing positional defender who has real length if not strength to bother opposing wings, but that he continued to put up shots was great. He also makes cuts, but I think it takes a little time for the other guys to consistently look for his cutting rather than spotting up in the corner as his game continues to mature.

Mikal is already a decently effective cutter and this year he's been more willing to pump fake and attack the close out. The next phase in his development after he perfects that mid range pull up / floater game is to start taking guys off the dribble. If he does either of those consistently, he becomes a top 30 player, if not better.

One other thing, I know it's human nature to avoid large masses hurtling towards you at high speed, but I wish more of these guys would learn to pump fake a guy into the air, and lean into them to create foul shots. I remember at least one possession against the Knicks, might have been Kaminsky, where he got the defender in the air, tried to side step, and let the shot clock expire.
Had to avoid the forum and basically social media cause I only got to watch the game yesterday :oops: . Was ready to post about my Avatar Bros but I do appreciate these points you've made ✌️
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by O_Gardino »

I think Bridges has been the best cutter on the team going back to last year. No doubt both of the young wings need to improve their games off the dribble, but 3 or nothing is a result of the CP3-Ayton offence. They've moved a bunch with the Payne-Saric offense.
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Superbone »

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Superbone »

This headline comes under the "no shit Sherlock" classification but the underlying analysis is quite good.

Deandre Ayton And Mikal Bridges Could Be Postseason X-Factors For The Phoenix Suns

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de ... enix-suns/

For example, this is a little scary:
Ayton will be tasked with a role not typically assigned to someone his age. Since the advent of the 3-point line, only 31 times has a center in his age-22 season or younger averaged 25-plus minutes per game in the playoffs.1 The track record of those teams is not encouraging, with the group winning a grand total of 16 playoff series. Just nine of the 31 teams advanced beyond the first round — meaning these young centers’ teams were bounced before even winning a single series 71 percent of the time. Only four (13 percent) advanced beyond the second round. Just three (10 percent) made the Finals, and none of them won the title.

Players in recent years have been entering the NBA younger than their 1980s and 1990s counterparts and thus have tended to have a bit more experience by their age-22 season, but the success rates of teams counting on young centers in the playoffs have barely budged. Since the 2010-11 season, an age-22-or-younger center has played 25-plus playoff minutes per game 12 times. Only three of those centers (Steven Adams of the 2015-16 Thunder, Clint Capela of the 2016-17 Rockets and Bam Adebayo of the 2019-20 Heat) won at least one series. Two of them advanced to at least the conference finals, one made the NBA Finals, and, obviously, none won the title.

That’s a lot of history to be working against. For the Suns to overcome the odds, they’ll need Ayton to tap into every ounce of his considerable talent — on both ends of the floor.
And the conclusion is sobering:
When the playoffs begin, Booker’s first time on the postseason stage seems likely to receive significant attention. But Bridges and Ayton will also be making their postseason debuts. How they handle the bright lights of playoff basketball will likely set the ceiling for this Suns team.
That's a lot to ask for in their young careers.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by ShelC »

DA's grown on me in the 2nd half just by showing up 99% of the time. If he does that in the playoffs, he'll be fine. We don't rely on him for more than putbacks and anchoring the defense so it'll be his focus that's most important.

Mikal and Cam will be guarded for the 3 so they're going to have to cut or look for the dribble drive. Mikal and Cam are older with a lot of big game experience. It's not the same as the NBA playoffs, but it should help and it's more than a typical 18-19 yr old has anyway.

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Cap »

ShelC wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:47 pm
DA's grown on me in the 2nd half just by showing up 99% of the time. If he does that in the playoffs, he'll be fine. We don't rely on him for more than putbacks and anchoring the defense so it'll be his focus that's most important.

Mikal and Cam will be guarded for the 3 so they're going to have to cut or look for the dribble drive. Mikal and Cam are older with a lot of big game experience. It's not the same as the NBA playoffs, but it should help and it's more than a typical 18-19 yr old has anyway.
We’re not going to face a lot of “typical 18-19 year olds” in the playoffs, so I don’t see the relevance of the comparison.

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by bajanguy008 »

So this speculation is dominating Suns Twitter this afternoon :shock:







Then I immediately remembered Jevon saying this 🤔. Had to go searching for it but I knew he had a quote and his words seem a lil more interesting now smh lol

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Indy »

please tell me it was mikal

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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by ShelC »

Cap wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:09 pm
ShelC wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:47 pm
DA's grown on me in the 2nd half just by showing up 99% of the time. If he does that in the playoffs, he'll be fine. We don't rely on him for more than putbacks and anchoring the defense so it'll be his focus that's most important.

Mikal and Cam will be guarded for the 3 so they're going to have to cut or look for the dribble drive. Mikal and Cam are older with a lot of big game experience. It's not the same as the NBA playoffs, but it should help and it's more than a typical 18-19 yr old has anyway.
We’re not going to face a lot of “typical 18-19 year olds” in the playoffs, so I don’t see the relevance of the comparison.
What I mean is that I trust them more than I would a Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss or Josh Jackson with little or no college experience, heading into the playoffs for the first time.

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Shabazz
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Shabazz »

Superbone wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:03 pm
This headline comes under the "no shit Sherlock" classification but the underlying analysis is quite good.

Deandre Ayton And Mikal Bridges Could Be Postseason X-Factors For The Phoenix Suns

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de ... enix-suns/

For example, this is a little scary:
Ayton will be tasked with a role not typically assigned to someone his age. Since the advent of the 3-point line, only 31 times has a center in his age-22 season or younger averaged 25-plus minutes per game in the playoffs.1 The track record of those teams is not encouraging, with the group winning a grand total of 16 playoff series. Just nine of the 31 teams advanced beyond the first round — meaning these young centers’ teams were bounced before even winning a single series 71 percent of the time. Only four (13 percent) advanced beyond the second round. Just three (10 percent) made the Finals, and none of them won the title.

Players in recent years have been entering the NBA younger than their 1980s and 1990s counterparts and thus have tended to have a bit more experience by their age-22 season, but the success rates of teams counting on young centers in the playoffs have barely budged. Since the 2010-11 season, an age-22-or-younger center has played 25-plus playoff minutes per game 12 times. Only three of those centers (Steven Adams of the 2015-16 Thunder, Clint Capela of the 2016-17 Rockets and Bam Adebayo of the 2019-20 Heat) won at least one series. Two of them advanced to at least the conference finals, one made the NBA Finals, and, obviously, none won the title.

That’s a lot of history to be working against. For the Suns to overcome the odds, they’ll need Ayton to tap into every ounce of his considerable talent — on both ends of the floor.
And the conclusion is sobering:
When the playoffs begin, Booker’s first time on the postseason stage seems likely to receive significant attention. But Bridges and Ayton will also be making their postseason debuts. How they handle the bright lights of playoff basketball will likely set the ceiling for this Suns team.
That's a lot to ask for in their young careers.
James Jones deserves a ton of credit for the success of the team this year, but other than the Smith-Haliburton thing his biggest miss was not getting another backup center. We are super-vulnerable to DA foul trouble against the bigger teams in the West. And there are plenty of them.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Mori Chu »

I don't totally buy those historical stats about teams with young centers. The game has changed a lot in recent years, especially regarding big men. And this year's Suns team is anything but typical.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 18 4/19-4/25

Post by Superbone »

Shabazz wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:53 pm
Superbone wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:03 pm
This headline comes under the "no shit Sherlock" classification but the underlying analysis is quite good.

Deandre Ayton And Mikal Bridges Could Be Postseason X-Factors For The Phoenix Suns

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de ... enix-suns/

For example, this is a little scary:
Ayton will be tasked with a role not typically assigned to someone his age. Since the advent of the 3-point line, only 31 times has a center in his age-22 season or younger averaged 25-plus minutes per game in the playoffs.1 The track record of those teams is not encouraging, with the group winning a grand total of 16 playoff series. Just nine of the 31 teams advanced beyond the first round — meaning these young centers’ teams were bounced before even winning a single series 71 percent of the time. Only four (13 percent) advanced beyond the second round. Just three (10 percent) made the Finals, and none of them won the title.

Players in recent years have been entering the NBA younger than their 1980s and 1990s counterparts and thus have tended to have a bit more experience by their age-22 season, but the success rates of teams counting on young centers in the playoffs have barely budged. Since the 2010-11 season, an age-22-or-younger center has played 25-plus playoff minutes per game 12 times. Only three of those centers (Steven Adams of the 2015-16 Thunder, Clint Capela of the 2016-17 Rockets and Bam Adebayo of the 2019-20 Heat) won at least one series. Two of them advanced to at least the conference finals, one made the NBA Finals, and, obviously, none won the title.

That’s a lot of history to be working against. For the Suns to overcome the odds, they’ll need Ayton to tap into every ounce of his considerable talent — on both ends of the floor.
And the conclusion is sobering:
When the playoffs begin, Booker’s first time on the postseason stage seems likely to receive significant attention. But Bridges and Ayton will also be making their postseason debuts. How they handle the bright lights of playoff basketball will likely set the ceiling for this Suns team.
That's a lot to ask for in their young careers.
James Jones deserves a ton of credit for the success of the team this year, but other than the Smith-Haliburton thing his biggest miss was not getting another backup center. We are super-vulnerable to DA foul trouble against the bigger teams in the West. And there are plenty of them.
I sure wish we would have held on to Holmes.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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