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Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:23 am
by In2ition
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:24 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:35 am
Stix is a 5. He should be screening up top and diving to the rim or popping. The 4 in our system usually just flares out to the corner and waits to shoot. So we're not taking advantage of any of his size, quickness or athleticism. They either need to play him at the 5 or move him because playing him like he's Jae or Cam is hurting everyone involved.
I agree that he's a 5 for a SL team, but what does it matter if he's practicing a role he's not likely to compete for in November? He's competing with Cam Johnson for minutes and the backup 4 role is the development plan he's on right now. My hope is that he's a backup 4 with smallball 5 upside by next April.
There's a lot going against him right now. He's clearly not going to be really good anytime soon and he'll probably never leading the league in anything.
He was drafted for his size, shooting skill and coachability. I think it's OK to still be optimistic about Smith's development. For some context, Cam Johnson is 4 years older than Jalen Smith who just had his first legal drink this past March. With the veterans on this roster and a seemingly strong culture, it's going to be hard for him to truly fail.
The problem is a few similar guys selected after him have looked significantly better so far, and I don't think the Suns would hesitate to include Smith in a trade for a more dependable veteran.
Here's the problem with him, and is really holding him back from being a PF or a Center in the league. He's still skinny af, and really needs to put on a ton of muscle. He's getting bodied and bullied out there by a bunch of nobodies. He is probably best suited to be a 5, but he needs to add about 40 lbs of muscle. That's not easy to do, and at his rate of increase, it's going to be at least 5 yrs until he's a contributing player. He's not a very good shooter nor is he a very good finesse finisher in the paint. He is easily pushed off balance in those shots and was on the ground at least 3-4 times tonight on a shot. Most of those weren't even called fouls. He has no way of forcing or imposing his will on another team or opposing player.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:02 am
by Superbone
It's almost like he's a young second year player.
Bigs take longer to develop and he's going to have to develop his body before he can start making a real impact in the NBA.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:07 am
by bajanguy008
The comments here actually not as bad as I expected lol
I haven't even watched all but saw him struggling to finish through contact like In2 said in the 1st quarter
Yes they were plenty rebounds up for grabs so getting them weren't ever going to be that hard but he seems to a decent job securing some in traffic.
I will see if that inefficiency around the bucket is a trend or if he was pressing last night but yea I see he started 1/9 so yea that's rooouughh.
Valid points being made on the being a 4 or 5 and doesn't make sense me talking about the roster construction. When I saw the names I didn't care cause I just assumed it will be a steady diet of Ty-Shon/Stix two man game in the PnR but we not really even doing that either
Oh well. To be continued
Like I said at the start of this thread, if you are a fan of him or not you need him to look decent because
1) it fills a void
2) that will be necessary to move him for a more ready piece in any mid-season trades
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:09 am
by In2ition
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:02 am
It's almost like he's a young second year player.
Bigs take longer to develop and he's going to have to develop his body before he can start making a real impact in the NBA.
Oh, sure, but it's not what the problem is. There are too many young bigs drafted last yr and this yr, that look much more likely to contribute tomorrow, not in 4 yrs. Fail fast, move on, and turn the page.
And it looks like my call of time of death, probably hit the Suns too.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:16 am
by Nodack
I keep wanting to call him Styx. I agree he needs to put on some muscle. Is he a 5 or a 4? They are playing him as a 4. Maybe because he is so skinny. He rebounds. He doesn’t finesse around the hoop because he just dunks the ball, which is something I approve. Ayton kills me with his finesse around the basket sometimes instead of dunking it. Sometimes you can’t dunk the ball and have to shoot. Stix/Styx got into a lot of “tip in” games around the hoop last night and it wasn’t pretty. I used to play that game with a buddy a lot. His outside shot looks pretty except the air ball part. I have hopes for him but he seems a little ways from being a real contributor right now. I hate those project guys. There is a long list of project guys who didn’t pan out. Time will tell I guess. Maybe with luck he will get a few more minutes a game this year and earn them.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:17 am
by bajanguy008
Well yup but again in that scenario
He can't be looking too poor
That's big though because that Fischer guy been on top of everything this summer so don't think this is any silly hot take
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:21 am
by Split T
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:09 am
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:02 am
It's almost like he's a young second year player.
Bigs take longer to develop and he's going to have to develop his body before he can start making a real impact in the NBA.
Oh, sure, but it's not what the problem is. There are too many young bigs drafted last yr and this yr, that look much more likely to contribute tomorrow, not in 4 yrs. Fail fast, move on, and turn the page.
And it looks like my call of time of death, probably hit the Suns too.
I understand going all in for these CP3 years…but I’m also worried about the post CP3 years. We have a solid young core, but if we’re sacrificing all our young assets and development pieces, it’s going to become very hard to stay good. We’ll find ourselves with a good but mostly mediocre and very expensive team, with no real way to get better…think Portland. It’ll be worth it if we win a championship, but if we fail…think Rockets.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:22 am
by In2ition
Nodack wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:16 am
I keep wanting to call him Styx. I agree he needs to put on some muscle. Is he a 5 or a 4? They are playing him as a 4. Maybe because he is so skinny. He rebounds. He doesn’t finesse around the hoop because he just dunks the ball, which is something I approve. Ayton kills me with his finesse around the basket sometimes instead of dunking it. Sometimes you can’t dunk the ball and have to shoot. Stix/Styx got into a lot of “tip in” games around the hoop last night and it wasn’t pretty. I used to play that game with a buddy a lot. His outside shot looks pretty except the air ball part. I have hopes for him but he seems a little ways from being a real contributor right now. I hate those project guys. There is a long list of project guys who didn’t pan out. Time will tell I guess. Maybe with luck he will get a few more minutes a game this year and earn them.
I mean that he can't make those shots that he can't dunk. He gets a finger on him and flies 3 ft away from the basket and on to the ground, while missing the shot.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:28 am
by djy2j
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:02 am
It's almost like he's a young second year player.
Bigs take longer to develop and he's going to have to develop his body before he can start making a real impact in the NBA.
I think his body is developed. They mentioned his body during the first game and how muscular he looks. I don’t think he’ll ever be a bruiser down low. I think his body is one of his few strengths.
He hasn’t looked ultra coordinated out there yet. Don’t know if it’s jitters but he’s seemed clumsy.
Still will judge him by his entire summer league body of work rather than 2 games but he is trending downward currently.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:34 am
by djy2j
I honestly think the dude needs to get LASIK. I remember him saying when he got drafted that was one of his plans because he would then be able to afford it.
He’s got a good stroke but his misses haven’t been close.
I’m not sure what is preventing him from getting the surgery
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:13 am
by Shabazz
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:22 am
Nodack wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:16 am
I keep wanting to call him Styx. I agree he needs to put on some muscle. Is he a 5 or a 4? They are playing him as a 4. Maybe because he is so skinny. He rebounds. He doesn’t finesse around the hoop because he just dunks the ball, which is something I approve. Ayton kills me with his finesse around the basket sometimes instead of dunking it. Sometimes you can’t dunk the ball and have to shoot. Stix/Styx got into a lot of “tip in” games around the hoop last night and it wasn’t pretty. I used to play that game with a buddy a lot. His outside shot looks pretty except the air ball part. I have hopes for him but he seems a little ways from being a real contributor right now. I hate those project guys. There is a long list of project guys who didn’t pan out. Time will tell I guess. Maybe with luck he will get a few more minutes a game this year and earn them.
I mean that he can't make those shots that he can't dunk. He gets a finger on him and flies 3 ft away from the basket and on to the ground, while missing the shot.
His upper body looks developed, but his waist and legs are scrawny, so he's easy to push around because he has no base. He also runs like a grandpa desperate to get to the toilet on time.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:23 am
by ShelC
Was just about to say he looks thicker up top and is pretty built, but also reminds me of Amar'e with his smaller waist and higher center of gravity. I thought he was fouled and pushed a lot last night with few calls made.
Not sure what you can get for him right now unless there's another team that really liked him last year in the draft. I feel like he's the kind of player Orlando would normally draft. They may need a big with all those guards and Isaac still out. Not sure the Cavs have a need for a big right now if we were to make a play for Nance.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:02 pm
by Drewsprocket
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:23 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:24 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:35 am
Stix is a 5. He should be screening up top and diving to the rim or popping. The 4 in our system usually just flares out to the corner and waits to shoot. So we're not taking advantage of any of his size, quickness or athleticism. They either need to play him at the 5 or move him because playing him like he's Jae or Cam is hurting everyone involved.
I agree that he's a 5 for a SL team, but what does it matter if he's practicing a role he's not likely to compete for in November? He's competing with Cam Johnson for minutes and the backup 4 role is the development plan he's on right now. My hope is that he's a backup 4 with smallball 5 upside by next April.
There's a lot going against him right now. He's clearly not going to be really good anytime soon and he'll probably never leading the league in anything.
He was drafted for his size, shooting skill and coachability. I think it's OK to still be optimistic about Smith's development. For some context, Cam Johnson is 4 years older than Jalen Smith who just had his first legal drink this past March. With the veterans on this roster and a seemingly strong culture, it's going to be hard for him to truly fail.
The problem is a few similar guys selected after him have looked significantly better so far, and I don't think the Suns would hesitate to include Smith in a trade for a more dependable veteran.
Here's the problem with him, and is really holding him back from being a PF or a Center in the league. He's still skinny af, and really needs to put on a ton of muscle. He's getting bodied and bullied out there by a bunch of nobodies. He is probably best suited to be a 5, but he needs to add about 40 lbs of muscle. That's not easy to do, and at his rate of increase, it's going to be at least 5 yrs until he's a contributing player. He's not a very good shooter nor is he a very good finesse finisher in the paint. He is easily pushed off balance in those shots and was on the ground at least 3-4 times tonight on a shot. Most of those weren't even called fouls. He has no way of forcing or imposing his will on another team or opposing player.
40lbs.!!
I think 10-15 lbs would suffice him to at least stay on the court. You really need to be 230 at 6’10” to at least to be a 4 in this league. Amare was 6’8” and change but 230 when he came in.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:11 pm
by Split T
djy2j wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:34 am
I honestly think the dude needs to get LASIK. I remember him saying when he got drafted that was one of his plans because he would then be able to afford it.
He’s got a good stroke but his misses haven’t been close.
I’m not sure what is preventing him from getting the surgery
They often don’t like you to get lasik in your early 20s. Your eyes can still be changing.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:34 pm
by SunsRIt
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:13 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:22 am
Nodack wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:16 am
I keep wanting to call him Styx. I agree he needs to put on some muscle. Is he a 5 or a 4? They are playing him as a 4. Maybe because he is so skinny. He rebounds. He doesn’t finesse around the hoop because he just dunks the ball, which is something I approve. Ayton kills me with his finesse around the basket sometimes instead of dunking it. Sometimes you can’t dunk the ball and have to shoot. Stix/Styx got into a lot of “tip in” games around the hoop last night and it wasn’t pretty. I used to play that game with a buddy a lot. His outside shot looks pretty except the air ball part. I have hopes for him but he seems a little ways from being a real contributor right now. I hate those project guys. There is a long list of project guys who didn’t pan out. Time will tell I guess. Maybe with luck he will get a few more minutes a game this year and earn them.
I mean that he can't make those shots that he can't dunk. He gets a finger on him and flies 3 ft away from the basket and on to the ground, while missing the shot.
His upper body looks developed, but
his waist and legs are scrawny, so he's easy to push around because he has no base. He also runs like a grandpa desperate to get to the toilet on time.
His waist? David Robinson was a 7-footer with a 32 inch waist. This take makes no sense.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:36 pm
by SunsRIt
Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:02 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:23 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:24 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:35 am
Stix is a 5. He should be screening up top and diving to the rim or popping. The 4 in our system usually just flares out to the corner and waits to shoot. So we're not taking advantage of any of his size, quickness or athleticism. They either need to play him at the 5 or move him because playing him like he's Jae or Cam is hurting everyone involved.
I agree that he's a 5 for a SL team, but what does it matter if he's practicing a role he's not likely to compete for in November? He's competing with Cam Johnson for minutes and the backup 4 role is the development plan he's on right now. My hope is that he's a backup 4 with smallball 5 upside by next April.
There's a lot going against him right now. He's clearly not going to be really good anytime soon and he'll probably never leading the league in anything.
He was drafted for his size, shooting skill and coachability. I think it's OK to still be optimistic about Smith's development. For some context, Cam Johnson is 4 years older than Jalen Smith who just had his first legal drink this past March. With the veterans on this roster and a seemingly strong culture, it's going to be hard for him to truly fail.
The problem is a few similar guys selected after him have looked significantly better so far, and I don't think the Suns would hesitate to include Smith in a trade for a more dependable veteran.
Here's the problem with him, and is really holding him back from being a PF or a Center in the league. He's still skinny af, and really needs to put on a ton of muscle. He's getting bodied and bullied out there by a bunch of nobodies. He is probably best suited to be a 5, but he needs to add about 40 lbs of muscle. That's not easy to do, and at his rate of increase, it's going to be at least 5 yrs until he's a contributing player. He's not a very good shooter nor is he a very good finesse finisher in the paint. He is easily pushed off balance in those shots and was on the ground at least 3-4 times tonight on a shot. Most of those weren't even called fouls. He has no way of forcing or imposing his will on another team or opposing player.
40lbs.!!
I think 10-15 lbs would suffice him to at least stay on the court. You really need to be 230 at 6’10” to at least to be a 4 in this league.
Amare was 6’8” and change but 230 when he came in.
Amare was and still is 6’ 10”.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:37 pm
by Superbone
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:13 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:22 am
Nodack wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:16 am
I keep wanting to call him Styx. I agree he needs to put on some muscle. Is he a 5 or a 4? They are playing him as a 4. Maybe because he is so skinny. He rebounds. He doesn’t finesse around the hoop because he just dunks the ball, which is something I approve. Ayton kills me with his finesse around the basket sometimes instead of dunking it. Sometimes you can’t dunk the ball and have to shoot. Stix/Styx got into a lot of “tip in” games around the hoop last night and it wasn’t pretty. I used to play that game with a buddy a lot. His outside shot looks pretty except the air ball part. I have hopes for him but he seems a little ways from being a real contributor right now. I hate those project guys. There is a long list of project guys who didn’t pan out. Time will tell I guess. Maybe with luck he will get a few more minutes a game this year and earn them.
I mean that he can't make those shots that he can't dunk. He gets a finger on him and flies 3 ft away from the basket and on to the ground, while missing the shot.
His upper body looks developed, but
his waist and legs are scrawny, so he's easy to push around because he has no base. He also runs like a grandpa desperate to get to the toilet on time.
His waist? David Robinson was a 7-footer with a 32 inch waist. This take makes no sense.
Are you saying it's a wasted take?
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:39 pm
by SunsRIt
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:37 pm
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:13 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:22 am
Nodack wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:16 am
I keep wanting to call him Styx. I agree he needs to put on some muscle. Is he a 5 or a 4? They are playing him as a 4. Maybe because he is so skinny. He rebounds. He doesn’t finesse around the hoop because he just dunks the ball, which is something I approve. Ayton kills me with his finesse around the basket sometimes instead of dunking it. Sometimes you can’t dunk the ball and have to shoot. Stix/Styx got into a lot of “tip in” games around the hoop last night and it wasn’t pretty. I used to play that game with a buddy a lot. His outside shot looks pretty except the air ball part. I have hopes for him but he seems a little ways from being a real contributor right now. I hate those project guys. There is a long list of project guys who didn’t pan out. Time will tell I guess. Maybe with luck he will get a few more minutes a game this year and earn them.
I mean that he can't make those shots that he can't dunk. He gets a finger on him and flies 3 ft away from the basket and on to the ground, while missing the shot.
His upper body looks developed, but
his waist and legs are scrawny, so he's easy to push around because he has no base. He also runs like a grandpa desperate to get to the toilet on time.
His waist? David Robinson was a 7-footer with a 32 inch waist. This take makes no sense.
Are you saying it's a wasted take?
Definitely. Waist size? Lol
Unless, of course, it’s a waist like Oliver Miller’s. That turned out to be a detriment.
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:41 pm
by Superbone
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:39 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:37 pm
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:13 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:22 am
I mean that he can't make those shots that he can't dunk. He gets a finger on him and flies 3 ft away from the basket and on to the ground, while missing the shot.
His upper body looks developed, but
his waist and legs are scrawny, so he's easy to push around because he has no base. He also runs like a grandpa desperate to get to the toilet on time.
His waist? David Robinson was a 7-footer with a 32 inch waist. This take makes no sense.
Are you saying it's a wasted take?
Definitely. Waist size? Lol
Unless, of course, it’s a waist like Oliver Miller’s. That turned out to be a detriment.
Remember when we heard a similarly silly take that Amare wasn't a good rebounder due to his small waist?
Re: Summer League 2021
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:44 pm
by SunsRIt
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:41 pm
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:39 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:37 pm
SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:13 am
His upper body looks developed, but
his waist and legs are scrawny, so he's easy to push around because he has no base. He also runs like a grandpa desperate to get to the toilet on time.
His waist? David Robinson was a 7-footer with a 32 inch waist. This take makes no sense.
Are you saying it's a wasted take?
Definitely. Waist size? Lol
Unless, of course, it’s a waist like Oliver Miller’s. That turned out to be a detriment.
Remember when we heard a similarly silly take that Amare wasn't a good rebounder due to his small waist?
Amare was a poor rebounder because he didn’t have a drive to rebound. Or a nose for where the ball was going to come off the rim. Ayton has a small waist and does just fine.