Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

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Shabazz
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Shabazz »

Defensive masterpiece from Mikal.

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Nodack
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Nodack »

I think what we have right now is working extremely well. I’m not going to say sh-t about them until they lose.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

3rdside wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:46 pm
3rdside wrote:I don’t think underestimating him is the right way to put it - more like not overestimating him.

He’s a great piece of our puzzle, so much so that I’m coming around to the idea that he might be a better fit for us than KAT right now, certainly at his current contract value.
Actually forget the contract, I mean straight up - we’re a pretty balanced scoring outfit and KAT would change the dynamic a lot.

If we weren’t title running then I’d be after him no questions asked and twice on Sunday.
I see it differently.

Monty's system is all about ball movement and getting guys good shots through mismatches or well designed off-ball actions. Chris Paul is also probably the best game managing PG in the league. Exchanging KAT for Ayton wouldn't change either of those aspects of the offense, and I think it would be more likely that we'd start scratching our heads at KAT being paid $33M while taking 12 shots per game.

The trouble is that it doesn't really matter for like 98% of regular season and playoff games if the roster is healthy. It's the 2% when the game becomes a possession-by-possession chess match that having a third or fourth option who can create a mismatch on their own can tilt the balance of the game. That's why having Mikal and Ayton develop some go-to scoring moves is so critical for this team to win a title.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I watched pretty much the whole game after missing about the first 8 minutes. This was just an ass kicking, and it started on the defensive end with the Suns really starting to show some consistency with generating deflections and poking the ball away from ballhandlers.

The scoring drought in the second quarter was annoying, but I don't worry about that stuff much anymore. They know what to do and believe it'll work, so we don't really see anyone try to do something outside of their role responsibilities.

I don't know what was going on with the officiating in the fourth quarter. The officials were giving the Nets a lot of little stuff while also not giving Booker the same whistle as Harden and KD. On that note, Bookers demeanor has definitely changed from previous seasons. He seems a lot calmer with that stuff now.

Anyway, as I said, this was an ass kicking. The Nets would've lost by 30 if they didn't have the best scorer in NBA history on their side.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Superbone »

Wow. Impressive win on a back-to-back, at the end of a 4 game road trip, against the best team in the East. 16 straight!
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by bajanguy008 »

For those who like the X's and O's
His game threads are always cool ✌️💪

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

That's a good thread.

It's OK to worry about draining the clock with 4+ minutes left in the game, but I also believe they have data on that stuff and aren't terribly concerned with getting a perfect look as long as they milk 20 seconds off of the clock. A few of those shots were definitely worse looks than they'd like to get.

A lot of the issues I had with the 4th quarter officiating came around that time. The Nets were allowed to be more physical on defense than the Suns for some reason.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by bajanguy008 »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:21 am
That's a good thread.

It's OK to worry about draining the clock with 4+ minutes left in the game, but I also believe they have data on that stuff and aren't terribly concerned with getting a perfect look as long as they milk 20 seconds off of the clock. A few of those shots were definitely worse looks than they'd like to get.

A lot of the issues I had with the 4th quarter officiating came around that time. The Nets were allowed to be more physical on defense than the Suns for some reason.
Yes I know my "We got lucky" take might have been eyebrow raising but Finals PTSD :oops: . Waiting too long to get into our sets, not getting good looks all as a result of the refs letting more physicality is literally what we went through.

Either way, looking ahead not backwards 💪
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by bajanguy008 »

SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

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Last edited by ShelC on Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by ShelC »

Another Book dominant performance. 32 pts in 30 minutes bc of some foul trouble. Everything was on display and I liked the back and forth he had with KD. I thought some of the ISOs were a little much, only 3 TOs but it felt like more. His scoring in the middle of the games has allowed us to build these large leads. When he gets rolling, it puts a lot of pressure on the other team to keep up and allows his teammates to stay in their roles and get their shots in the flow of the game rather than force.

Mikal was huge after playing 39 minutes against the Knicks. There needs to be a DPOY campaign for him. Some great offense mixed in there too. JaVale with 10 and 10, only 1 block but changed probably 5 other shots. CP hit his big shots when we needed them and took on some of the scoring load when Book got in foul trouble. He gave away a few possessions late tho when he was milking the clock and other guys were forced into tough shots with the shotclock winding down.

DA wasn't there most of the night, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to fatigue. He got us a few easy, needed baskets in the 4th which is a nice luxury to have.

The Nets' 20 TOs really didn't give them a chance. We didn't even capitalize like we should've in the 2nd qtr when we were getting the TOs but missing all those shots. For some reason I don't remember KD get 37. Harden is still 15-20 lbs overweight. LMA hurt us on the pick and pop, Mills hurt us with the corner 3s. Bembry is the annoying defensive energy guy like Jevon, PJ Tucker, Beverley. James Johnson gave them some good minutes and guarded CP well late in the 4th. He was a guy I thought could fill that 4/5 role for us off the bench. But they're still very top heavy with talent and haven't found the right combo of role players to consistently produce.

I think this win streak has maybe shown how hard it is to blow teams out. We had significant leads in a lot of games only to see our starters having to close out games in the 4th. That's not to say our guys are prone to blowing leads or got sloppy/lazy and let teams back in. There's just too much talent and offense now around the league that a 20+pt lead heading into the 4th can get cut down in just a few possessions. It's great that we're building these leads tho and have that cushion in the 4th for when teams go on their run - and instead of tying or taking the lead, they're still down 8-12pts. So while the starters may be out there in the 4th, they're not chasing the other team or really having to sweat out a victory. Also gives us that much more experience in late game situations, game/clock management, etc.

Of course, even after 16 straight, the "real test" will be Tuesday against the Ws.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Mori Chu »

I really enjoyed Mikal's defense in this game. It seemed like he was everywhere. Sure enough, he got a career-high 7 steals. I do think he should be on the All-Defense team this year.

Booker had another great game and carried us in scoring. His 3-point stroke has been particularly on lately. And every time he drives and then pulls up from around 15-18 feet I just assume it's going in. He's on a really nice run.

JaVale McGee is also just playing amazingly well. He had another double-double with 10 and 10 in this one. He manages to do this in just 16 minutes! It's hard to overstate the impact he has had on our bench unit. He changes the bench lineups from being a liability to having the potential to hold or extend our lead.

It does feel like we're missing one more rotation player. We played 9 guys tonight and didn't really have any other weapons waiting on the bench. I wish Payton were able to give us anything, or that Shamet were more consistent. Or that Jalen Smith wasn't a bust. Or that Kaminsky and Nader weren't injured.

The Nets are a deadly team, but to my eyes it's almost entirely due to Kevin Durant. Outside of him, their roster is quite ordinary and beatable. Harden still looks fat and slow; I think he may be past his prime at this point given his lackluster commitment to conditioning and the rule changes that reduce his potency. Bembry was really good for them by hustling and attacking the basket; he was a pest. Liked him a lot. He ended up shooting 9-11 (!) and had 9 boards. Wow. We could use a guy just like that on our bench, sort of a better Nader. Looking at their box score, the Nets got almost no production from their bench. I think their lack of depth is really going to hurt them as the long season wears on. It's too bad they blew all their money on Kyrie who has turned out to be a loon and won't play for them. Them's the breaks.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360118

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by SunsRIt »

The rotation guy we’re missing could have been Aldridge, Milsap or Griffin if Sarver wasn’t such a horrible human being. All 3 of those guys were available in the last year.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Split T »

They were all going to Brooklyn, I’m not sure they were ever actually available

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Shabazz »

bajanguy008 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:30 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:21 am
That's a good thread.

It's OK to worry about draining the clock with 4+ minutes left in the game, but I also believe they have data on that stuff and aren't terribly concerned with getting a perfect look as long as they milk 20 seconds off of the clock. A few of those shots were definitely worse looks than they'd like to get.

A lot of the issues I had with the 4th quarter officiating came around that time. The Nets were allowed to be more physical on defense than the Suns for some reason.
Yes I know my "We got lucky" take might have been eyebrow raising but Finals PTSD :oops: . Waiting too long to get into our sets, not getting good looks all as a result of the refs letting more physicality is literally what we went through.

Either way, looking ahead not backwards 💪
I’m with you. That end-of-game O was not optimal. Paul should have been looking to get into actions with ~10 seconds left on the shot clock, not ~3. 2 baskets during that stretch would have put the game away, but the best we got were heavily contested jumpers with no chance of going in off the “burn clock” strategy.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by JeremyG »

They say you know what you have after 20 games and that a team is what it is a quarter of the way through the season.

Well, the Suns are on pace for 70 wins.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by 3rdside »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:22 am
3rdside wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:46 pm
3rdside wrote:I don’t think underestimating him is the right way to put it - more like not overestimating him.

He’s a great piece of our puzzle, so much so that I’m coming around to the idea that he might be a better fit for us than KAT right now, certainly at his current contract value.
Actually forget the contract, I mean straight up - we’re a pretty balanced scoring outfit and KAT would change the dynamic a lot.

If we weren’t title running then I’d be after him no questions asked and twice on Sunday.
I see it differently.

Monty's system is all about ball movement and getting guys good shots through mismatches or well designed off-ball actions. Chris Paul is also probably the best game managing PG in the league. Exchanging KAT for Ayton wouldn't change either of those aspects of the offense, and I think it would be more likely that we'd start scratching our heads at KAT being paid $33M while taking 12 shots per game.

The trouble is that it doesn't really matter for like 98% of regular season and playoff games if the roster is healthy. It's the 2% when the game becomes a possession-by-possession chess match that having a third or fourth option who can create a mismatch on their own can tilt the balance of the game. That's why having Mikal and Ayton develop some go-to scoring moves is so critical for this team to win a title.
Should have said it differently.

Straight up, of course you go for KAT - under virtually no circumstances is it better to keep the worse player if offered the chance to upgrade to the better player, unless there's injury or character issues but neither of those are evident in KAT or DA.

But ..

What would we have to give up along with DA in order to get KAT is the question.

If it's a pu pu platter of Smith, Saric and picks then you'd go for it of course, but more realistically it would involve the crowder's and johnson's of our roster, removing our depth and run the risk of turning us into the nets.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by pickle »

I thought Ayton played fine. He probably played a B- game, but I don't know if he should be panned for the numbers he put up. The flow of the game favored the guards and wings and he simply didn't get that many touches. He did make a couple of mistakes, but I think overall he played a decent game with credible defense on both Durant and Harden. Only time Durant punished him was on a cross-over dribble drive to the basket and that one I can forgive. He had a couple of very decisive plays in the 4th quarter on the offensive end, acting as a release valve for the offense, and I was happy with that. Didn't like that he was quite flustered when facing a quick double team, but that's probably to be expected as he doesn't get enough reps as a defensive focal point, so he could get more practice and get better at that. What stood out though was his reluctance to go to the perimeter to defend LMA. That might be an issue for the team in general, coz when Ayton steps out to the perimeter we have very little rebounding in the paint.

Some on the board have probably already said this, but I feel like we are still having some of the same issues as we had last year with rebounding and a third point of attack when the going gets tough. All three of Bridges Cam J and Crowder are trying to do more in the mid-range, and we are involving DA more in the second half, but none of these guys feel like they can be depended upon just yet. Hoping to see growth during the season.

I liked the Brooklyn broadcast crew. Very respectful and effusive in their praise. Though I disagreed with their comment on several plays in the 4th.

I'm also not that down on Shamet. He's playing a role, and he's playing it well. There's still room for improvement for sure but what he has shown on the defensive end and the occasional flash of playmaking has been a pleasant surprise for me. I'd like for him to be more decisive when he gets open shots.

I want Cam P to graduate from being a spark off the bench to a credible borderline starter who can balance scoring with setting up teammates using the threat of his speed to the basket.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Shabazz »

pickle wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:00 pm
I thought Ayton played fine. He probably played a B- game, but I don't know if he should be panned for the numbers he put up. The flow of the game favored the guards and wings and he simply didn't get that many touches. He did make a couple of mistakes, but I think overall he played a decent game with credible defense on both Durant and Harden. Only time Durant punished him was on a cross-over dribble drive to the basket and that one I can forgive. He had a couple of very decisive plays in the 4th quarter on the offensive end, acting as a release valve for the offense, and I was happy with that. Didn't like that he was quite flustered when facing a quick double team, but that's probably to be expected as he doesn't get enough reps as a defensive focal point, so he could get more practice and get better at that. What stood out though was his reluctance to go to the perimeter to defend LMA. That might be an issue for the team in general, coz when Ayton steps out to the perimeter we have very little rebounding in the paint.

Some on the board have probably already said this, but I feel like we are still having some of the same issues as we had last year with rebounding and a third point of attack when the going gets tough. All three of Bridges Cam J and Crowder are trying to do more in the mid-range, and we are involving DA more in the second half, but none of these guys feel like they can be depended upon just yet. Hoping to see growth during the season.

I liked the Brooklyn broadcast crew. Very respectful and effusive in their praise. Though I disagreed with their comment on several plays in the 4th.

I'm also not that down on Shamet. He's playing a role, and he's playing it well. There's still room for improvement for sure but what he has shown on the defensive end and the occasional flash of playmaking has been a pleasant surprise for me. I'd like for him to be more decisive when he gets open shots.

I want Cam P to graduate from being a spark off the bench to a credible borderline starter who can balance scoring with setting up teammates using the threat of his speed to the basket.
Great post. I agree with pretty much all of it.

The one concern I’ve had with Ayton these last few games is that his butterfingers seem to have returned after being much stronger with the ball and able to catch earlier in the year.

We were talking about how great he would be with Amare’s aggression or explosiveness. But honestly, give him Javale or Mikal’s hands and his game would go up 2 levels.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-3) @ Nets (14-5), Saturday 11/27/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

pickle wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:00 pm
I liked the Brooklyn broadcast crew. Very respectful and effusive in their praise. Though I disagreed with their comment on several plays in the 4th.
My girlfriend gave me a weird look when I cursed at the TV after the Nets TV guy said Cam Payne nearly travelled. As if James Harden doesn't nearly travel every time he touches the ball.
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