What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.
That never made any sense. The Suns won't be able to aggregate players in a trade after this season, so they would have limited the window to make a move. And a mediocre player on a multi-year deal just wouldn't have the appeal on the trade market with upcoming penalties; and it would have had to be a multi-year deal to avoid giving the player veto power.
Bazley signed a one year, minimum deal with the Nets. I don't think the Suns would have success trying to move him at the trade deadline on a 2-3 year deal making $10 mil a year.
We didn't get a pick for trading Payne. We gave up a pick and got a conditional pick in return.
I agree with INF that it's dangerous to not have any players with bird rights or any players/tradeable contracts making between the minimum and the maximum. And if they don't use the TPE to keep that salary slot, then that's really bad.
What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.
Well it was just a rumor…never a report. I believe Zach Lowe said it because it would be the only way for us to add salary.
I too am worried a bit about not having bird rights…I think there’s a good chance Gordon picks up his player option and we’ll be able to pay Okogie if he breaks out…but not sure how we’re gonna keep KBD, Eubanks, Watanabe, Metu, or Bol if they break out. We’ll be back in the minimum market again. Maybe Ishbia can get 1 or 2 of them to stay with the promise that we’d overpay them the next year. Or maybe we just win the title and then I won’t be too concerned anyways haha
We didn't get a pick for trading Payne. We gave up a pick and got a conditional pick in return.
I agree with INF that it's dangerous to not have any players with bird rights or any players/tradeable contracts making between the minimum and the maximum. And if they don't use the TPE to keep that salary slot, then that's really bad.
What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.
Well it was just a rumor…never a report. I believe Zach Lowe said it because it would be the only way for us to add salary.
I too am worried a bit about not having bird rights…I think there’s a good chance Gordon picks up his player option and we’ll be able to pay Okogie if he breaks out…but not sure how we’re gonna keep KBD, Eubanks, Watanabe, Metu, or Bol if they break out. We’ll be back in the minimum market again. Maybe Ishbia can get 1 or 2 of them to stay with the promise that we’d overpay them the next year. Or maybe we just win the title and then I won’t be too concerned anyways haha
I think you're right about Gordon, but he isn't getting any younger, and I just don't like a Beal-Gordon-Booker lineup. I think he is outstanding value for the minimum, but after the Beal trade, I really didn't see him as a necessary addition.
Watanabe may stick around because he might be tight with KD, and in general, I don't think the league values him that much. But I am glad we have him; he is a solid player.
What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.
That never made any sense. The Suns won't be able to aggregate players in a trade after this season, so they would have limited the window to make a move. And a mediocre player on a multi-year deal just wouldn't have the appeal on the trade market with upcoming penalties; and it would have had to be a multi-year deal to avoid giving the player veto power.
Bazley signed a one year, minimum deal with the Nets. I don't think the Suns would have success trying to move him at the trade deadline on a 2-3 year deal making $10 mil a year.
I believe they could have done 2 or 3 years with only the first year guaranteed (second year either partially guaranteed or non-guaranteed), without any team or player options.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
We didn't get a pick for trading Payne. We gave up a pick and got a conditional pick in return.
I agree with INF that it's dangerous to not have any players with bird rights or any players/tradeable contracts making between the minimum and the maximum. And if they don't use the TPE to keep that salary slot, then that's really bad.
What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.
Well it was just a rumor…never a report. I believe Zach Lowe said it because it would be the only way for us to add salary.
I too am worried a bit about not having bird rights…I think there’s a good chance Gordon picks up his player option and we’ll be able to pay Okogie if he breaks out…but not sure how we’re gonna keep KBD, Eubanks, Watanabe, Metu, or Bol if they break out. We’ll be back in the minimum market again. Maybe Ishbia can get 1 or 2 of them to stay with the promise that we’d overpay them the next year. Or maybe we just win the title and then I won’t be too concerned anyways haha
Yeah, if we win it all, I don't care about future seasons. But the FO still should. And let's say Ayton plays great and helps us get to the Finals again, along with the three supermax players, but we fall short in the Finals. We might want to keep that core together, and it would be tough to improve or even stay at the same level with just minimum contracts available.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Yeah, if we win it all, I don't care about future seasons. But the FO still should.
I care. I get everyone is desperate for a championship, but I prefer operating for sustained success (Spurs, Warriors) instead of going the L.A. Rams route. I realize most fans just want a championship no matter what, and that I am in the minority.
Yes we will have a tougher time next off-season for sure. We will have 2 1sts available to trade on draft night, but no real contracts(outside the big 4) to attach them too. Getting a young cost controlled rookie that can contribute right away would be nice though.
We probably don’t need to delve into trading Ayton for multiple smaller contracts, but that’s also another way to get tradable contracts.
Yeah, if we win it all, I don't care about future seasons. But the FO still should.
I care. I get everyone is desperate for a championship, but I prefer operating for sustained success (Spurs, Warriors) instead of going the L.A. Rams route. I realize most fans just want a championship no matter what, and that I am in the minority.
I think everyone wants sustained success, but the 1st one is the most important one. If someone said you had essentially a guaranteed title in year 1, but essentially 0% over the rest of the 5 years, would you take that or would you take a 20% chance every year?
I just look at this Payne trade as, we would rather have the combination of multiple 2nd round picks, a trade exception, and $26m in savings than Payne. That's probably right. I don't care super much about the $26m because it isn't my money, but the picks and the flexibility of the trade exception seem like they'll give us more benefit and options than retaining Payne would.
Problem is the picks weren’t part of the Payne trade. They are separate and we could have kept Payne and acquired the picks. It was definitely a straight salary dump and we gave up a 2nd round pick and 5.7 million to do it.
Problem is the picks weren’t part of the Payne trade. They are separate and we could have kept Payne and acquired the picks. It was definitely a straight salary dump and we gave up a 2nd round pick and 5.7 million to do it.
Thank you, Spilt. The Suns were smart to release the news of the Magic trade at the same time, because a number of people are lumping it all in together.
Yeah, and I don't know if the $6.5M TPE will prove to be any more useful to us than the $5M TPE that we already had available. And we likely won't use both. We would have to cut two players to do so.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
I am holding out hope that Killian Hayes falls out of the rotation in Detroit, and the Pistons try to get something for him before he hits free agency.
Also watch New Orleans with their payroll and Kira Lewis Jr. If the Clippers get ravaged by injuries, maybe they'll make an L-Tax move (Plumlee, Boston Jr., Preston).
I am holding out hope that Killian Hayes falls out of the rotation in Detroit, and the Pistons try to get something for him before he hits free agency.
Seems like it could happen. If Cunningham and Ausar Thompson are both healthy, it seems like they both fill a similar role as Hayes, and they’re probably both better at it. Hayes could get squeezed out for the younger guys.
For now, the Payne trade is definitely a salary dump. How can it be viewed as anything else when we sent cash and an asset to make the move? Payne, even at $6M had negative equity value in this market. It wasn’t a basketball trade.
But, 1) it’s Ishbia’s right to make this move (and the Todd trade) after the financial commitments he’s already made and it doesn’t make him “cheap” just like Steve Ballmer isn’t cheap for not wanting a $120M tax hit to retain Eric Gordon. 2) we may still use the TPE’s. And 3) don’t discount the possibility that we were doing right by Payne by sending him somewhere he could get more minutes while in a contract year.
What happened to overpaying our own free agents (such as Bazley or others) so we could hold on to tradeable contracts/salary slots? That rumor just went by the wayside.
Umm, we signed better players for much less money. That seems like the more optimal strategy than overpaying scrubs for theoretical (but illogical) trade possibilities.
I am holding out hope that Killian Hayes falls out of the rotation in Detroit, and the Pistons try to get something for him before he hits free agency.
Seems like it could happen. If Cunningham and Ausar Thompson are both healthy, it seems like they both fill a similar role as Hayes, and they’re probably both better at it. Hayes could get squeezed out for the younger guys.
Someone woke up with a bowl full of piss instead of Cheerios. Welcome back. Let the pessimism rain.
Sorry for the post dump. I haven't been around to respond to things as they happen or as they are posted.
It's all good. I'm sorry for pissing in your Cheerios with my dick comment. Is it Friday yet
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
I just look at this Payne trade as, we would rather have the combination of multiple 2nd round picks, a trade exception, and $26m in savings than Payne. That's probably right. I don't care super much about the $26m because it isn't my money, but the picks and the flexibility of the trade exception seem like they'll give us more benefit and options than retaining Payne would.
It may not be your money, but that doesn’t mean the money is coming from an infinite supply. If they make a habit of spending $26M on non-rotation players, eventually the money will run out.
I just look at this Payne trade as, we would rather have the combination of multiple 2nd round picks, a trade exception, and $26m in savings than Payne. That's probably right. I don't care super much about the $26m because it isn't my money, but the picks and the flexibility of the trade exception seem like they'll give us more benefit and options than retaining Payne would.
It may not be your money, but that doesn’t mean the money is coming from an infinite supply. If they make a habit of spending $26M on non-rotation players, eventually the money will run out.
I think it's manipulative to keep toting the line of Payne costs $26 million.
Payne was already on the roster. The Suns have made moves that have sent the payroll through the roof. It puts in very punitive tax territory. Now they want to save some money. Dumping Payne saves them $26 million. You can pick any player on their roster and view them through the lens of their salary plus the tax implications. Is Metu worth $12 mil a year? Is Ayton worth $80 million a season or whatever his salary is with the L-Tax implications?
