TRADE: Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Allen/Little/Johnson

[Superbone]

I love how you pick and choose what to quote from other people. You did exactly what we all knew you would do.

Maybe quote this part too:

Enough excuses for the guy. And please stop with Nurkic this and Nurkic that just because he was who Ayton got traded for. Accept it and move on. Please.

And when I asked for the Ayton slander to please stop, did it? Nope, it continued for 5 straight years!

I’m an equal opportunity type person…. They get the criticism when deserved. If nurk sucks. Of course I’m going to say something. I’m also going to say something when someone vehemently defends someone when they’re the actual problem too….

Yeah, can we at least wait until Nurk sucks to bag on him? Ayton got that at least.

I seem to remember it differently. Especially after his "second contract" quote that was taken completely out of context. Plus, Nurkic already has a 9-year history to look at in the league.

Of course you do. And everything is taken out of context when it comes to Ayton in your mind.

[Superbone]

This makes me feel better about it. Thank you.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Simmons loves hedging and playing both sides. He’s not a serious voice when it comes to analysis.

[BKinSJC]

Simmons loves hedging and playing both sides. He’s not a serious voice when it comes to analysis.

I used to like his writing, which was breezy and occasionally had clever pop culture references and didn't take itself too seriously (he used to preface a lot of stuff with some variation of "don't ever forget, I'm an idiot"). Plus, he's obviously a fan of the league in general and of the Celtics in particular, and he's done enough research for books and other things that he has an appreciation for the history of the game.

I think he was better when he had a chance to reflect and edit himself a bit, which you kind of have to do when you're actually writing. Now that he's mostly a podcaster who's a Name with a minor media empire, he mostly just seems to jump right in with his first impressions, regardless of how poorly informed they might be.

[Split T]

Simmons doesn’t follow the nba as a whole very good anymore. He’s often very wrong on non-Celtics and non-star related stuff. He doesn’t need to be so well-versed anymore. He’s got hundreds of employees to do that for him.

[Split T]

Allen is the most proven shooter outside of EG in our others group. He started 131 games over the last 2 years in Milwaukee. That’s a really good Milwaukee team. He’s a consistent 40% 3pt shooter on high volume. He’s also an agressive and willing defender. His shooting also went up in the playoffs. He’s quite good and I think is being vastly underrated on this board. I don’t like him, he’s got a pretty big history of being a dirty player, but I think he’s the most likely 5th starter for us.

No way, he's much too small to start at SF.

I’d start him to defend POA(Curry, Ja, Fox)…I’d throw Booker or Beal at the 3 defensively. We can always switch it up and go Little or KBD if need be for the right matchup. Okogie started a lot last year and he’s the same size as Allen.

[Charlie Smithy!]

Split, you told me before and I think I will screenshot your answer this time, but what is a point of attack defender?

[Split T]

It’s the defender that is guarding the initiator of the offense. We historically used Mikal for this. Generally speaking they are defending point guards and need to be able to navigate a lot of screens. They are just very involved in the action and usually defending the opposing teams best perimeter player.

Examples would be Jrue Holiday, Pat Bev, Marcus Smart, Mikal Bridges….usually taking on guys like Steph Curry, Ja Morant, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, etc.

[Superbone]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/ ... tful-deals

NBA trade grades: Breaking down the Jrue Holiday to Boston deal

Wojnarowski reported Portland intends to keep Williams, who turns 26 later this month, meaning the center position has gone from a major weakness for the Blazers to a surprising strength. In Williams and Deandre Ayton, Portland now has two starting-caliber centers in their athletic prime. The challenge for coach Chauncey Billups may be finding enough minutes to keep both happy, and it will be intriguing to see whether the Blazers try playing both together at times.

The hot take here is that Williams, who has never averaged more than 10 points per game in a season and spent most of the 2023 playoffs coming off the bench, might be the better of Portland's two centers. Although Williams isn't nearly as skilled offensively as Ayton, he does a better job of playing to his strengths as a career 73% shooter who is one of the league's best defenders when healthy.

Williams also brings a favorable contract paying him less than the non-taxpayer midlevel exception over the next three years. So long as he can stay healthy, Williams is a great pickup for the Blazers.

[BKinSJC]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/ ... tful-deals

NBA trade grades: Breaking down the Jrue Holiday to Boston deal

Wojnarowski reported Portland intends to keep Williams, who turns 26 later this month, meaning the center position has gone from a major weakness for the Blazers to a surprising strength. In Williams and Deandre Ayton, Portland now has two starting-caliber centers in their athletic prime. The challenge for coach Chauncey Billups may be finding enough minutes to keep both happy, and it will be intriguing to see whether the Blazers try playing both together at times.

The hot take here is that Williams, who has never averaged more than 10 points per game in a season and spent most of the 2023 playoffs coming off the bench, might be the better of Portland's two centers. Although Williams isn't nearly as skilled offensively as Ayton, he does a better job of playing to his strengths as a career 73% shooter who is one of the league's best defenders when healthy.

Williams also brings a favorable contract paying him less than the non-taxpayer midlevel exception over the next three years. So long as he can stay healthy, Williams is a great pickup for the Blazers.

I'm sure Ayton won't let it affect his mental state at all that, less than a week after he was traded to Portland, the Blazers traded for (and apparently intend to keep) another guy who plays his same position and who some people are going to say is more deserving of time and opportunities than he is.

[SunsShine]

They may try a twin towers lineup with Ayton at the 4 like he had wanted in the past, though I’m not certain it’ll achieve the results that they may hope for. It hasn’t exactly worked out for KAT and Gobert, and KAT can at least spread the floor.

[Split T]

Williams would be the 4…he’s much better at switching and covering the perimeter…offense might be rough. Don’t think it’s a good idea to crowd the paint when you just drafted a rim pressure pg.

[SunsShine]

It’s unfortunate there is/was no way for us to land Williams. He is just the kind of player we’d need against the likes of Giannis, AD, Jokic, etc.

[Superbone]

It’s unfortunate there is/was no way for us to land Williams. He is just the kind of player we’d need against the likes of Giannis, AD, Jokic, etc.

I’m sure most would be much more favorable about the trade if we got Williams instead of Nurkic. But it is what it is. Moving forward…

[BKinSJC]

It’s unfortunate there is/was no way for us to land Williams. He is just the kind of player we’d need against the likes of Giannis, AD, Jokic, etc.

I’m sure most would be much more favorable about the trade if we got Williams instead of Nurkic. But it is what it is. Moving forward…

I think some people might be inclined to point out that Williams is also very injury prone (he's played a little over half the available games in his 5-year career so far), and really only has a couple of years where he started and played a significant number of games and minutes. He's pretty one-dimensional when it comes to offensive ability - he's a good at rim running, but doesn't have much more in his arsenal. Decent rebounder compared to minutes played, excellent rim protector. Still young, but might already be losing some of his pop due to ongoing knee issues. Good value for contract, if he can play consistently, but he often can't.

I don't think there was a way to get an Ayton replacement (plus parts) that wouldn't have some drawbacks, since Ayton himself has some pretty significant downsides.

[Split T]

Ya definitely some injury risks and also not the best as the only big. Solid, but his better role is as a weak side rim protector. He’s more JJJ/Giannis than Rudy/Embiid. Needs to play next to a spacing 5. He’s who Minny should have gotten instead of Gobert. He’d be great next to KAT

[sunset rubdown]

I cannot believe we shoot ourselves in the foot by downgrading our C while trading with our rivals for the ring who both got ton better. SMH

At least, I will not hear Ayton hater brigade on twitter anymore.

[virtual9mm]

Williams won't play much, he's been an injury risk and will remain one. Boston didn't lose much in him if you listen to their fans.

Having slept a few nights on it, I think the Ayton-Nurkic swap might have been a good deal for Portland and an ok deal for the Suns. I think that Ayton will get closer to 25 and 12 (on lower percentages) than his career averages and...if Nurkic and everyone else is healthy...the Suns are winning a title. Nurkic might be even better than a locked-in Ayton on Jokic, perhaps one of the few in the league that is.

The Suns are deep enough to survive an injury to either Booker or Beal in the first two rounds of the playoffs, and an injury to Durant in the first round. They need another big banger in the middle just in case Nurkic goes down.I think he will, unfortunately.

[ShelC]

If Williams is healthy, a big if, I don't know how Portland makes it work. Feels like it'll create a logjam because neither he nor DA will be able to be a fulltime 4. They'll try it and experiment with it because that's what bad teams with poor roster construction do, but it won't work. I wouldn't trust him to stay healthy, but he'd be the athletic defender they'd need behind the young, offensive minded guards and someone who might remind Billups of Ben Wallace defensively.

Of course, this is probably another built-in excuse for DA if Williams cuts into his minutes.

[pickle]

I don’t get why we care about how the Blazers use Ayton. Let the Ayton discussions just go to the Ayton thread if they can’t go away completely.

In the interest of discussing a rival NBA team’s rotations, I don’t see why Portland can’t/won’t do any of those things since their goal clearly isn’t to win. I would say this year’s Portland ~ last year’s Detroit and they ran both Wiseman and Duren at times and alternated starters and their third rotation big was Bagley.