Game Day (Early Start!): Suns (39-28) @ Bucks (43-24), Sun 3/17/24

[Superbone]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

[Flagrant Fowl]

No, I'm not questioning his commitment. But maybe his leadership. He and Durant both appear to be leader by example types but not like a Kobe type killer for example. Or even Paul. I think maybe he needs to be a 1B or maybe #2. I don't know. What do you think?

Kobe was a notoriously shitty leader who alienated teammates throughout his career and only won when he had a complementary Hall of Fame level teammate(s). Being a "killer" mentally is pretty much nonsense, IMO. It's all about effort and I can't honestly say Booker has been subpar in effort as his game has developed.

Booker's physical and athletic ceiling will always prevent him from becoming a true #1 on a title team. Even a guy like James Harden who won MVP hasn't been any more successful on the team level in a similar role. Outside of a few exceptions, big guys will always run the league. And as much as I admire KD as a player, him and Booker have overlapping skillsets in a lot of areas that might be putting too much strain on the rest of the roster. I think they can work together, but not with this triple and quadruple down on shooting roster and scheme that's been built this season.

It's just that he's had two totally different squads and both have shown these tendencies to get blown out in big games. Why does this team have such a lack of urgency? I don't think Book is the type to get on them and get them to ratchet up the intensity. Book's defense has been atrocious lately. Seems he loves to turn his back on the open shooters and give them wide open opportunities. That's not elite.

IMO, the Suns were only blown out once when it mattered in his career -- two years ago against Dallas.

I didn't watch a second of this game, so I can't comment on his shot contests. But I will say the open 3-point shots are a systemic issue at this point and it leads me to believe there's something going on with the way it's being coached. His 1v1 defense has been as good, if not better, than I can ever remember this season.

[The Bobster]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

Durant/Booker/2021 Paul would certainly work better than Durant/Booker/Beal, but Paul got old really fast.

Their best solution in the offseason might be to find a starter-quality PG and move booker to SF. Because the other option is trading Booker and a lot of fans are going to hate that option. Beal and Booker in the backcourt isn't going to work long-term, and Beal and his no-trade clause aren't going anywhwere.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

I think he's a viable "PG" option if the lineup has better balance. This team would look a lot better with a real perimeter defender with size/length instead of Beal. (That's not a dig at Beal who's been as advertised for better and worse.)

[specialsauce]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

I think he's a viable "PG" option if the lineup has better balance. This team would look a lot better with a real perimeter defender with size/length instead of Beal. (That's not a dig at Beal who's been as advertised for better and worse.)

Booker needs an alpha male who doesn't get rattled next to him. A steadying presence. CP3 was that but he got old so the production wasn't where it needed to be any more and he was killing us defensively. KD is more like Booker. They're both sidekicks. KD needs to ride someone else's coattails as well.

[specialsauce]

Suns haven't put a complete 48 minutes together all year. This team ain't it. One of Book or KD gotta go. Too many players unwilling to do the intangibles and too focused on ball stopping iso leading to midrange Js and trading 3s for 2s or turnovers.

[Nodack]

No Giannis and they still get destroyed. At least the Suns made it into the record books. They are the team that allowed the most 3 pointers in a half in the history of the game. That’s something to hang you hat on. It seems every team they play lately has gone off on 3’s against the Suns. And what’s up with Booker’s shooting lately.

The big three were supposed to put so much pressure on apposing teams that everyone was going to be wide open all the time.

So sad.

[specialsauce]

No, I'm not questioning his commitment. But maybe his leadership. He and Durant both appear to be leader by example types but not like a Kobe type killer for example. Or even Paul. I think maybe he needs to be a 1B or maybe #2. I don't know. What do you think?

Kobe was a notoriously shitty leader who alienated teammates throughout his career and only won when he had a complementary Hall of Fame level teammate(s). Being a "killer" mentally is pretty much nonsense, IMO. It's all about effort and I can't honestly say Booker has been subpar in effort as his game has developed.

Booker's physical and athletic ceiling will always prevent him from becoming a true #1 on a title team. Even a guy like James Harden who won MVP hasn't been any more successful on the team level in a similar role. Outside of a few exceptions, big guys will always run the league. And as much as I admire KD as a player, him and Booker have overlapping skillsets in a lot of areas that might be putting too much strain on the rest of the roster. I think they can work together, but not with this triple and quadruple down on shooting roster and scheme that's been built this season.

It's just that he's had two totally different squads and both have shown these tendencies to get blown out in big games. Why does this team have such a lack of urgency? I don't think Book is the type to get on them and get them to ratchet up the intensity. Book's defense has been atrocious lately. Seems he loves to turn his back on the open shooters and give them wide open opportunities. That's not elite.

IMO, the Suns were only blown out once when it mattered in his career -- two years ago against Dallas.

I didn't watch a second of this game, so I can't comment on his shot contests. But I will say the open 3-point shots are a systemic issue at this point and it leads me to believe there's something going on with the way it's being coached. His 1v1 defense has been as good, if not better, than I can ever remember this season.

What star HAS won a title without a HOF worthy complementary player in recent history? Maybe Jokic and Giannis???

Steph had Klay and KD

Kobe had Shaq- Pau to me isn't any more HOf worthy than Jrue Holiday, Middleton or Jamal Murray.

Lebron had Wade, Kyrie, AD

[Charlie Smithy!]

Did Ben or Rasheed Wallace end up making it into the Hall of fame? At any rate, those 2004 and 2005 Pistons were definitely greater than the sum of their parts

[Flagrant Fowl]

What star HAS won a title without a HOF worthy complementary player in recent history? Maybe Jokic and Giannis???

Steph had Klay and KD

Kobe had Shaq- Pau to me isn't any more HOf worthy than Jrue Holiday, Middleton or Jamal Murray.

Lebron had Wade, Kyrie, AD

Right, that's the crux of my point. The handwringing over #1 or 1A-1B stuff is kinda silly.

It'll always be about elite skillset and Booker has it in scoring. He needs more teammates who are elite in complementary aspects. This current team has 4 starters who's best skill is scoring and one bruiser. I thought it would work better than it has. Maybe injuries can be blamed to a degree, but I said weeks ago they've peaked defensively and that issue isn't getting resolved this season.

[Superbone]

No, I'm not questioning his commitment. But maybe his leadership. He and Durant both appear to be leader by example types but not like a Kobe type killer for example. Or even Paul. I think maybe he needs to be a 1B or maybe #2. I don't know. What do you think?

Kobe was a notoriously shitty leader who alienated teammates throughout his career and only won when he had a complementary Hall of Fame level teammate(s). Being a "killer" mentally is pretty much nonsense, IMO. It's all about effort and I can't honestly say Booker has been subpar in effort as his game has developed.

Booker's physical and athletic ceiling will always prevent him from becoming a true #1 on a title team. Even a guy like James Harden who won MVP hasn't been any more successful on the team level in a similar role. Outside of a few exceptions, big guys will always run the league. And as much as I admire KD as a player, him and Booker have overlapping skillsets in a lot of areas that might be putting too much strain on the rest of the roster. I think they can work together, but not with this triple and quadruple down on shooting roster and scheme that's been built this season.

It's just that he's had two totally different squads and both have shown these tendencies to get blown out in big games. Why does this team have such a lack of urgency? I don't think Book is the type to get on them and get them to ratchet up the intensity. Book's defense has been atrocious lately. Seems he loves to turn his back on the open shooters and give them wide open opportunities. That's not elite.

IMO, the Suns were only blown out once when it mattered in his career -- two years ago against Dallas.

I didn't watch a second of this game, so I can't comment on his shot contests. But I will say the open 3-point shots are a systemic issue at this point and it leads me to believe there's something going on with the way it's being coached. His 1v1 defense has been as good, if not better, than I can ever remember this season.

I was with you until the last paragraph. Yes, there is a systemic issue to their non-guarding of three point shots but that doesn’t excuse Book from not running out to attempt to defend wide open three point shooters but instead turning his back and looking at the rim and hoping they miss. I’ve seen this behavior from Book specifically many times now including a couple times tonight. I probably see it at a minimum of once a game.

[Superbone]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

I think he's a viable "PG" option if the lineup has better balance. This team would look a lot better with a real perimeter defender with size/length instead of Beal. (That's not a dig at Beal who's been as advertised for better and worse.)

Booker needs an alpha male who doesn't get rattled next to him. A steadying presence. CP3 was that but he got old so the production wasn't where it needed to be any more and he was killing us defensively. KD is more like Booker. They're both sidekicks. KD needs to ride someone else's coattails as well.

Yep, I agree with this. Both Book and KD are complementary players but not #1s. I said the same above.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I didn't watch a second of this game, so I can't comment on his shot contests. But I will say the open 3-point shots are a systemic issue at this point and it leads me to believe there's something going on with the way it's being coached. His 1v1 defense has been as good, if not better, than I can ever remember this season.

I was with you until the last paragraph. Yes, there is a systemic issue to their non-guarding of three point shots but that doesn’t excuse Book from not running out to attempt to defend wide open three point shooters but instead turning his back and looking at the rim and hoping they miss. I’ve seen this behavior from Book specifically many times now including a couple times tonight. I probably see it at a minimum of once a game.

I know what you're talking about, but I think there's still a chance that's somewhat schemed. The staff could be telling them it's better to look for a potential rebound than ineffectively close out the shooter late that results in being taken out of the rebound contest.

[Superbone]

No Giannis and they still get destroyed. At least the Suns made it into the record books. They are the team that allowed the most 3 pointers in a half in the history of the game. That’s something to hang you hat on. It seems every team they play lately has gone off on 3’s against the Suns. And what’s up with Booker’s shooting lately.

The big three were supposed to put so much pressure on apposing teams that everyone was going to be wide open all the time.

So sad.

Book is in a slump for sure. At least with his three point shooting. I don’t know if he has a nagging injury, doesn’t feel well, or it’s just a plain ol’ slump but he’s not himself.

[Superbone]

I didn't watch a second of this game, so I can't comment on his shot contests. But I will say the open 3-point shots are a systemic issue at this point and it leads me to believe there's something going on with the way it's being coached. His 1v1 defense has been as good, if not better, than I can ever remember this season.

I was with you until the last paragraph. Yes, there is a systemic issue to their non-guarding of three point shots but that doesn’t excuse Book from not running out to attempt to defend wide open three point shooters but instead turning his back and looking at the rim and hoping they miss. I’ve seen this behavior from Book specifically many times now including a couple times tonight. I probably see it at a minimum of once a game.

I know what you're talking about, but I think there's still a chance that's somewhat schemed. The staff could be telling them it's better to look for a potential rebound than ineffectively close out the shooter late that results in being taken out of the rebound contest.

OK, I could see that. You’re right that the times it happens, he’s far enough away that he probably couldn’t get there to contest well enough anyway.

[SunsSince92]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

I think he's a viable "PG" option if the lineup has better balance. This team would look a lot better with a real perimeter defender with size/length instead of Beal. (That's not a dig at Beal who's been as advertised for better and worse.)

Booker needs an alpha male who doesn't get rattled next to him. A steadying presence. CP3 was that but he got old so the production wasn't where it needed to be any more and he was killing us defensively. KD is more like Booker. They're both sidekicks. KD needs to ride someone else's coattails as well.

Yep, I agree with this. Both Book and KD are complementary players but not #1s. I said the same above.

Therein lies the problem. The conundrum Jones has now is whether he backs Booker or Durant as I don't think you can keep both and build a roster that's going to be good enough to challenge for a title with the limited resources we have. If we are saying that neither Book or Durant are number 1's then presumably the player you have to bring in to replace one or other of them will need to be the designated number 1 and the player you build the franchise around?

I can't see Booker being happy about that at all. Durant would probably have less of a problem with it although he supposedly came to Phoenix to play with Booker, so if he were no longer here, would that cause issues? The only other option would be to move Beal but it's unlikely he would sign off on a trade unless it was to a contender. I also don't think he is the issue here. He's a complimentary piece that provides something different to both Book and Durant in terms of driving the lane and getting to the basket.

[Superbone]

I think it’s pretty clear now that Paul/Booker was a better pairing than Durant/Booker. I don’t see how you could argue differently based on results. I also think it’s becoming clear that not having a true point guard was a mistake after all. I didn’t want to believe it but the results bear it out.

I think he's a viable "PG" option if the lineup has better balance. This team would look a lot better with a real perimeter defender with size/length instead of Beal. (That's not a dig at Beal who's been as advertised for better and worse.)

Booker needs an alpha male who doesn't get rattled next to him. A steadying presence. CP3 was that but he got old so the production wasn't where it needed to be any more and he was killing us defensively. KD is more like Booker. They're both sidekicks. KD needs to ride someone else's coattails as well.

Yep, I agree with this. Both Book and KD are complementary players but not #1s. I said the same above.

Therein lies the problem. The conundrum Jones has now is whether he backs Booker or Durant as I don't think you can keep both and build a roster that's going to be good enough to challenge for a title with the limited resources we have. If we are saying that neither Book or Durant are number 1's then presumably the player you have to bring in to replace one or other of them will need to be the designated number 1 and the player you build the franchise around?

I can't see Booker being happy about that at all. Durant would probably have less of a problem with it although he supposedly came to Phoenix to play with Booker, so if he were no longer here, would that cause issues? The only other option would be to move Beal but it's unlikely he would sign off on a trade unless it was to a contender. I also don't think he is the issue here. He's a complimentary piece that provides something different to both Book and Durant in terms of driving the lane and getting to the basket.

I really don’t think Booker would have a problem with it. He didn’t have an issue with Paul.

[Gladiator]

We are not getting a true number one by trading KD or Book, certainly not better than either of them. If we trade one of them it will be to restock with young promising talent and a couple draft picks and hope to reset and rebound quickly.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I didn't watch a second of this game, so I can't comment on his shot contests. But I will say the open 3-point shots are a systemic issue at this point and it leads me to believe there's something going on with the way it's being coached. His 1v1 defense has been as good, if not better, than I can ever remember this season.

I was with you until the last paragraph. Yes, there is a systemic issue to their non-guarding of three point shots but that doesn’t excuse Book from not running out to attempt to defend wide open three point shooters but instead turning his back and looking at the rim and hoping they miss. I’ve seen this behavior from Book specifically many times now including a couple times tonight. I probably see it at a minimum of once a game.

I know what you're talking about, but I think there's still a chance that's somewhat schemed. The staff could be telling them it's better to look for a potential rebound than ineffectively close out the shooter late that results in being taken out of the rebound contest.

OK, I could see that. You’re right that the times it happens, he’s far enough away that he probably couldn’t get there to contest well enough anyway.

Therefore, I think the source of this issue is the roster and coaching more so than Booker (or anyone else) "giving up" on contesting shots.

I'm having a hard time remembering any recent Suns teams having to scramble so much defensively. Obviously Mikal covered up a lot of stuff and Ayton was serviceable on the perimeter in most situations, but the drop off with this group shouldn't be this drastic. The ball is simply moving faster than the Suns rotations.

[JNix]

Its crazy to me now everyone is talking about trading Booker. This season been a roller coaster and overall been a disappointment but to me trading the best Suns player in history is crazy.

What we've seen has been underwhelming to say the least but the season isnt over. Lets see how this plays out and reassess in the offseason. But the big 3 to me doesnt need to be traded. You just have to find the right surrounding pieces. Think we have some of those pieces, but a retooling (if we flame out in playoffs) would definitely need to happen. Problem is were strapped but if you have a decent 1st thats a good start, just cant miss on that pick.